07-08-12 11:44 AM
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  1. pythons's Avatar
    Compared to the ipad the Playbook IS a failure, just as it is with the Droid tablets...
    ...Playbook should have shipped READY for action & as of right now it's STILL NOT READY.
    ...Don't get me wrong - I'm a fan of blackberry & bought two Playbooks.
    ...At that time the price of $199.00 was close enough to get me to pick up a couple.
    07-03-12 10:45 PM
  2. MisterMe11's Avatar
    I think RIM pulled the plug (so to speak) on manufacturing, but not on their longer-term tablet goals. The rumored first batch of Playbook first production was something like 1.5 to 2 million, and cumulative sales to customers haven't exceeded that as far as I know. Now the 16 GB version is being discontinued. Someone posted a theory that it is close to being sold out now and that they have simply decided not to ramp up further production of this model. That seems to make sense to me.

    It also seems that they plan to launch the 4G version late this year (based on quotes I saw from the quarterly announcement). I'm not sure that makes sense. It might be better to launch BB10 on phones, evaluate the response, and then launch the 4G with BB10 if the phones generate momentum. Then they can evaluate the potential of the Blackforest product and consider a new generation of the 7" product (perhaps rebranded)



    The Touchpad and the PlayBook are both good products, but they are also both complete and utter failures. The only difference was HP was smart enough to pull the plug and RIM isn't.
    07-03-12 10:55 PM
  3. h20work's Avatar
    Got the answers I was looking for.

    Now you should all go to mcdonalds for your daily big mac cause sales proove its the best.

    And people wonder why fanbots get called sheep.
    You just don't like the answers to the question you asked...

    I don't care about how many were sold, I bought 3 pb's. To me it's a failure because it can't email anywhere near what any other bb product can, including my storm

    I say this, as I'm using one of the three to post this....
    07-03-12 10:55 PM
  4. Saiga's Avatar
    Got the answers I was looking for.

    Now you should all go to mcdonalds for your daily big mac cause sales proove its the best.

    And people wonder why fanbots get called sheep.
    Ermkay. The answers you got go against what you are claiming others think. I don't see anyone saying "Sales = the best product". You seem horribly confused about things.

    Sales don't equal a good product just like a good product doesn't always sell a lot of units. Are you following me? Does that make sense to you?

    For examples of this look at the video game industry. The Atari Jaguar was amazing for its time. So was the Dreamcast. But they were both failures because people didn't buy them. On the other hand The wii is a very poor console yet it sold very very well. I even own one.

    It doesn't matter how good the PlayBook may or may not be. It is a failure. You still with me?

    Please explain why you think the PlayBook isn't a total failure. Are you actually willing to say that you think the PlayBook is a success?
    Last edited by berryboba; 07-03-12 at 11:52 PM.
    07-03-12 11:48 PM
  5. JTATL's Avatar
    Betamax was better than VHS
    HD DVD was better than blueray
    Linux was better than ms windows
    Play book was better than android tablet

    In the end better doesn't sell perception sells
    Last edited by JTATL; 07-04-12 at 12:06 AM.
    07-04-12 12:01 AM
  6. pantlesspenguin's Avatar
    Got the answers I was looking for.

    Now you should all go to mcdonalds for your daily big mac cause sales proove its the best.

    And people wonder why fanbots get called sheep.
    Hey I gave you my take, and I didn't mention anything about sales, just public perception.
    07-04-12 12:10 AM
  7. Speedygi's Avatar
    Why didn't RIM run an ad campaign? Simple it was targeted to current blackberry owners who they figured would flock to it however they didn't. It could never be a consumer product for non bb users because it didn't have native apps for email contacts or calendar or any app ecosystem of popular apps. Remember you can't judge PB by the the wonderful 2.0 version we must remember it was the crippled 1.0 os they sold for 10 months prior that determined its marketability.

    RIM should have paired os2.0 upgrade with a massive tv ad campaign to inform public what the new stand alone PB was capable of they didn't so there was no sales buzz.
    Excuse me, they did launch an ad campaign on both the UK and US fronts, didn't you see some of the now great ads that appeared on TV (and all available on YouTube) for the Playbook.

    If you haven't, check out the BlackBerry channel on YouTube and tell me how you feel about them.

    Fact is, they did launch an Ad campaign, only that no one really took notice. My guess is that this world is too far into their I stuff and bot stuff to even care.
    Last edited by Speedygi; 07-04-12 at 12:26 AM.
    07-04-12 12:24 AM
  8. pantlesspenguin's Avatar
    Excuse me, they did launch an ad campaign on both the UK and US fronts, didn't you see some of the now great ads that appeared on TV (and all available on YouTube) for the Playbook.

    If you haven't, check out the BlackBerry channel on YouTube and tell me how you feel about them.
    I didn't see them. I watch TV but I don't have cable. If I didn't know about the Playbook I wouldn't have been searching for commercials on YouTube. If i didn't have an interest in BlackBerry I wouldn't be checking out the BlackBerry channel on YouTube. To sucesfully market a brand you have to reach beyond the current user base.
    oldtimeBBaddict likes this.
    07-04-12 12:31 AM
  9. Speedygi's Avatar
    I believe these ads were aired, just not sure on which channels or networks on American Television. RIM is at least trying, which is what I can take away from this.

    Same goes for BlackBerry UK.
    07-04-12 12:40 AM
  10. hurds's Avatar
    Flawed analogy. You've used it before (and most likely will again), but hey...

    If iOS devices were cheap and used the technological equivalent of mystery meat to keep prices low, you would have a logical argument. In the category that it exists in, all things being equal, Mickey D is king, much like Symbian holds court in lower end devices.

    Now, I believe there are very few people that would pick a Big Mac when filet mignon is available FOR THE SAME PRICE. Not too many people would pick a bicycle if a BMW costs the same.

    Apple wins even though they charge a premium. In the premium category, Apple wins.

    Now, I'm off to wait for you to angrily ask those who disagree with you why they are here.





    Mobile post via Tapatalk
    Why are you here!

    People project too much.

    I don't think I do that too often but I'm sure I've done it more than once. I've done it recently to someone who only seems to show up when there is bad news, seems lame to me and I'll definitely say it again.


    No analogy is perfect. But I think saying the PB is a failure due to sales is a weird way to think about things. Cause seriously, I own one and it does every thing I want and its only going to get better. It is logical to call something a failure if it doesnt sell well, but to the individual I don't see how it matters. I get the argument theres less people to videochat with or possibly less support but we've seen RIM is committed to it.

    I still think its dumb the PB gets branded a failure when theres seems to be a lot of bigger failures out there. I think its more of an non-BB user to base their definition of failure on sales.
    07-04-12 01:52 AM
  11. Moonbase0ne's Avatar

    I still think its dumb the PB gets branded a failure when theres seems to be a lot of bigger failures out there. I think its more of an non-BB user to base their definition of failure on sales.
    So, would you say the PB was/is successful?
    07-04-12 01:55 AM
  12. hurds's Avatar
    Ermkay. The answers you got go against what you are claiming others think. I don't see anyone saying "Sales = the best product". You seem horribly confused about things.

    Sales don't equal a good product just like a good product doesn't always sell a lot of units. Are you following me? Does that make sense to you?

    For examples of this look at the video game industry. The Atari Jaguar was amazing for its time. So was the Dreamcast. But they were both failures because people didn't buy them. On the other hand The wii is a very poor console yet it sold very very well. I even own one.

    It doesn't matter how good the PlayBook may or may not be. It is a failure. You still with me?

    Please explain why you think the PlayBook isn't a total failure. Are you actually willing to say that you think the PlayBook is a success?


    So you are saying the iPad might actually suck?



    I am definitely willing to say the PB is a success and its still being sold, and the story isnt over yet.

    I see the PB as the foot in the door. Its an amazing product that I thoroughly enjoy and has given me a glimpse of RIMs future. I don't look at what other people think of a device or how many they've sold to make my decision on what I think of a product, I come to the decision myself.
    07-04-12 02:04 AM
  13. hurds's Avatar
    So, would you say the PB was/is successful?
    yes, and the xbox is an box.
    07-04-12 02:05 AM
  14. Moonbase0ne's Avatar
    So you are saying the iPad might actually suck?



    I am definitely willing to say the PB is a success and its still being sold, and the story isnt over yet.

    I see the PB as the foot in the door. Its an amazing product that I thoroughly enjoy and has given me a glimpse of RIMs future. I don't look at what other people think of a device or how many they've sold to make my decision on what I think of a product, I come to the decision myself.
    What, in your opinion, makes the playbook a success? just curious.
    07-04-12 02:09 AM
  15. hurds's Avatar
    What, in your opinion, makes the playbook a success? just curious.
    read my posts
    07-04-12 02:12 AM
  16. Moonbase0ne's Avatar
    Got the answers I was looking for.

    Now you should all go to mcdonalds for your daily big mac cause sales proove its the best.

    And people wonder why fanbots get called sheep.
    On second thought. Never mind. I just read this post, which pretty much gives me an ideal of where this conversation will more than likely lead.

    Sounds like you simply don't like the answers given as to why others think the PB is a failure.


    fanbots and sheep? Really?
    07-04-12 02:19 AM
  17. hurds's Avatar
    On second thought. Never mind. I just read this post, which pretty much gives me an ideal of where this conversation will more than likely lead.

    Sounds like you simply don't like the answers given as to why others think the PB is a failure.


    fanbots and sheep? Really?


    Sales mean little to me and I don't define success of a product for myself based on sales. I get other people see apple as the be all end all and just care about how many other people bought the same product as the only thing that matters. I base success of something as it pertains to me, an individual because again I use what works best for me. I never say, 'oh, everyone is buying that, I will too'. The masses are often wrong.

    The PB is a success to me becuase it is a great product:
    1. It has amazing, unmatched multitasking
    2. It has in my opinion a great ever expanding app selection
    3. An amazing screen, dual speakers
    4. Great cameras, which I can use when videochatting with my parents
    5. Its RIMs first release of a QNX device and it has got it into the publics hands
    6. Phenominal UI, makes using other products feel inferior and rudimentary
    7. It will continue to receive updates and support, including BB10
    8. It allows bridge which allows several things such as viewing email on a larger screen, using BBM and sharing my data plan.
    9. It serves an entirely different purpose than my phone. Isn't just a bigger screen.
    10. Its been over a year and the specs are still comparable to anything out there.
    11. Its allowed RIM to develop the OS and grow their app catalog for the upcoming bb10 platform. This is extremely important.
    etc.

    To me it is far superior to any other tablet, and its just getting started. If RIM hadn't released the PB it would have been seen as vaporware. Its actuaully pretty amazing how quickly they brought it to market. To me the tablet market was too immature when RIM released their device and with poor mindshare and reviews upon its release it didn't perform well. Relative to the other non-apple tablets it has faired well.


    If you base success on sales thats fine. But relatively then the PB isn't quite the failure people make it out to be seeing as how cisco and hp both discontinued their tablets and I'm pretty sure non of the other tablets, minus kindle and ipad, haven't performed well. I'd consider the kindle a failure since its specs are so poor and is purely a consumption device. Most who consider the PB a failure probably don't have one and are basing it on sales relative the apple.

    I guess I should add that I'm not of the opinion RIM is selling them at a loss but that would be a different discussion. They've sold out of the 16G and this shows there is some sort of demand. Again, from a previous post, it is their foot in the door for mobile computing.

    Apparently my analogies aren't very good but I'll try one more. Going through school I didn't always get as high as grades as I wanted even though I aimed for the highest possible but in the end I learned enough to achieve the goals I wanted. I would never consider bumps I had on the way failures as I would learn from them to attain success.
    Last edited by hurds; 07-04-12 at 05:54 AM.
    07-04-12 05:09 AM
  18. hurds's Avatar
    Flawed analogy. You've used it before (and most likely will again), but hey...

    If iOS devices were cheap and used the technological equivalent of mystery meat to keep prices low, you would have a logical argument. In the category that it exists in, all things being equal, Mickey D is king, much like Symbian holds court in lower end devices.

    Now, I believe there are very few people that would pick a Big Mac when filet mignon is available FOR THE SAME PRICE. Not too many people would pick a bicycle if a BMW costs the same.

    Apple wins even though they charge a premium. In the premium category, Apple wins.

    Now, I'm off to wait for you to angrily ask those who disagree with you why they are here.





    Mobile post via Tapatalk


    When I first read this I was confused but I think I figured it out. It doesn't make sense with what I am saying.

    Two different definitions of success:
    1) Sales
    2) Good product

    I'm arguing against the thought that only the thing that sells the most should be considered a success. This is irrespective of price. Hooray for apple that they 'win the premium category'.

    My point with Big Macs is just because they are a sales success it doesn't mean they are a product success.

    I'm saying that people who think RIM is a product failure come to that erroneous conclusion based on it being a sales 'failure' (but in other posts I've made the case its not even a sales failure) much like they come to the conclusion the ipad is a product success based on sales success. They don't think to themselves whether its a good product, they just base it on sales (sheep). They may come to the same conclusion that a big mac is a product success (2) based off sales success (1). - I'll point out not all people make these erroneous conclusions but Im sure a large percentage does.

    But if you don't agree with that its cool cause now I kinda understand this whole success/failure definition thing better myself and I think my analogy isn't so bad.



    But what I get from your post is that you think the iPaid is a superior product to the PB but thats not what I'm talking about.
    Last edited by hurds; 07-04-12 at 05:43 AM.
    07-04-12 05:38 AM
  19. cgk's Avatar
    No I think it was a failure because it result in a billion dollar loss for the company, anything else is just window-dressing. If a product is good or bad is subjective, it being a financial flop is an objective hard fact regardless of whatever weird non-standard way you are trying to redefine failure.

    Sent from my Lumia 800 using Board Express
    Last edited by cgk; 07-04-12 at 05:49 AM.
    07-04-12 05:47 AM
  20. hurds's Avatar
    No I think it was a failure because it result in a billion dollar loss for the company, anything else is just window-dressing. If a product is good or bad is subjective, it being a financial flop is an objective hard fact regardless of whatever weird non-standard way you are trying to redefine failure.

    Sent from my Lumia 800 using Board Express
    I guess I'm redefining failure. Cause I don't see it as one. It wasn't a billion dollar loss either. It was a little over a half-billion write-down on income they planned to bring in but didnt.

    Using my new definitions I can now start referring to things as failures based on how I define things. To me any tablet based on a phone OS is a failure as a product. That's my opinion though, just like others would consider the PB a failure based on sales.
    07-04-12 05:59 AM
  21. jegs2's Avatar
    Now, flip it for a minute... if you buy a product you enjoy, why does it matter if it has failed commercially or not?
    For my part, availability of apps and product support are what matter. If commercial failure means going the way of Palm OS, then that could have an impact on such. Yeah, every product will eventually see that, but some sooner than others.
    07-04-12 06:02 AM
  22. Speedygi's Avatar
    Furthermore when a company goes out, you can love and use a product all you want, but at the back of your mind, you know the days of using that product is numbered and you are forced to look for alternatives..
    Last edited by Speedygi; 07-05-12 at 11:44 AM.
    07-05-12 11:35 AM
  23. tjseaman's Avatar
    I wouldn't say it was at all a huge success, but the fact that they are still being manufactured and sold (even now at reduced cost) to me says they haven't failed. When the Playbook is no more, I would agree it was a failure. I know many people, including myself, who own a Playbook and love it.
    07-05-12 02:05 PM
  24. addicted44's Avatar
    To me any tablet based on a phone OS is a failure as a product. That's my opinion though.
    So when RIM releases BB10 on your Playbook it will go from being a success to a failure, right?
    07-05-12 03:04 PM
  25. amazinglygraceless's Avatar
    So when RIM releases BB10 on your Playbook it will go from being a success to a failure, right?
    In what alternate universe is the Playbook a success?
    07-05-12 05:48 PM
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