02-06-14 01:50 AM
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  1. cuek80's Avatar
    Yap. Many Indonesia users that I know switch to android or iOS as soon as BBM available on other platform.

    Posted via CB10
    02-01-14 06:12 AM
  2. madcat72's Avatar
    Can you prove that the 9900 alone, outsold every BB10 phone combined?
    Because what I see, is that BlackBerry had 0.5% marketshare of new devices sold in 2013 with BB10 and 1% with BBOS.
    It would mean that 50% of the phones sold were Bolds.
    And that is a very dubious claim.



    It's not like we play that game for about one year with BelfastD, right..?

    Posted via CB10
    I said 9900 because it's a bbos device. Should have said BBOS instead.

    Posted via CB10
    02-01-14 06:43 AM
  3. NursingNinja's Avatar
    I tried going back to my 9930. I do love that phone. It's great for everything except the cloud based services and Web browsing. I could have lived with waiting to get to my laptop to put something significant on Dropbox again but it seems I have come to expect more from the browser. That tin can mobile browser doesn't impress me like it used to. Sure it was a big deal when I had never seen one before on a phone but these days LTE on my Z10 will do just fine.

    Posted via CB10
    02-01-14 07:57 AM
  4. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    I tried going back to my 9930. I do love that phone. It's great for everything except the cloud based services and Web browsing. I could have lived with waiting to get to my laptop to put something significant on Dropbox again but it seems I have come to expect more from the browser. That tin can mobile browser doesn't impress me like it used to. Sure it was a big deal when I had never seen one before on a phone but these days LTE on my Z10 will do just fine.

    Posted via CB10
    BB7 browser was 30-40% faster then BB6 browser. They could've easily done a similar jump with a hypothetical BB8.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    02-01-14 09:57 AM
  5. Omnitech's Avatar
    BB7 browser was 30-40% faster then BB6 browser. They could've easily done a similar jump with a hypothetical BB8.

    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    02-01-14 10:34 AM
  6. web99's Avatar
    BB7 browser was 30-40% faster then BB6 browser. They could've easily done a similar jump with a hypothetical BB8.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    BBOS had already been tweaked, patched and optimized as much as possible. Even if they were able to find a way to increase the BBOS browser speed by 30-40%, it would still not be satisfactory and would still lag far beyond its competition.

    There comes a point of "diminishing returns" where no matter how much effort you put into an outdated platform, you are not going to get the same benefits and performance that you would get with a more modern, up to date one.

    To try an further improve BBOS was just money being thrown away. Even Jim Balsillie and Mike Lazaridis, who were the most staunch defenders of BBOS realized this in 2010/2011when they made the decision to build a new OS from scratch.


    Sent from my iPod touch using CB Forums mobile app
    Omnitech likes this.
    02-01-14 10:52 AM
  7. belfastdispatcher's Avatar



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    02-01-14 11:07 AM
  8. cjcampbell's Avatar



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Faster, sure, but it still doesn't even come close to as fast as the BB10 browser. They could increase the speed 100% and it would still be slower.
    Omnitech likes this.
    02-01-14 11:12 AM
  9. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Faster, sure, but it still doesn't even come close to as fast as the BB10 browser. They could increase the speed 100% and it would still be slower.
    It was designed 3+ years ago and it ran on very low spec hardware, how can it compete with BB10 and 2gb of ram?





    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    02-01-14 12:12 PM
  10. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    BBOS had already been tweaked, patched and optimized as much as possible. Even if they were able to find a way to increase the BBOS browser speed by 30-40%, it would still not be satisfactory and would still lag far beyond its competition.

    There comes a point of "diminishing returns" where no matter how much effort you put into an outdated platform, you are not going to get the same benefits and performance that you would get with a more modern, up to date one.

    To try an further improve BBOS was just money being thrown away. Even Jim Balsillie and Mike Lazaridis, who were the most staunch defenders of BBOS realized this in 2010/2011when they made the decision to build a new OS from scratch.


    Sent from my iPod touch using CB Forums mobile app
    Let's see on browser alone, BB6 basically increased browser speed over BB5 by 100% in my opinion and it introduced tabs. BB7 increased browser speed by 30% or more and allowed more tabs and this on barely higher specs.

    But all of the sudden nothing more could be done? That was it? I don't think so.

    Anybody who had a 9900 for two years can testify how much it improved over time with more updates. Battery life for example basically doubled

    PS Balsillie also said: "transitions is where companies go to die"

    I have a feeling they had different plans for QNX, I don't think they planned BBX, now BB10, to be what it is today.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by belfastdispatcher; 02-01-14 at 12:51 PM.
    02-01-14 12:27 PM
  11. southlander's Avatar
    BB7 browser was 30-40% faster then BB6 browser. They could've easily done a similar jump with a hypothetical BB8.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Only because BlackBerry finally used some decent hardware on the OS 7 phones. Same bad browser on a phone with a CPU that's almost double it's predecessors will give you a faster browser.

    Z10STL100-4/10.2.1.1925
    02-01-14 03:43 PM
  12. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Only because BlackBerry finally used some decent hardware on the OS 7 phones. Same bad browser on a phone with a CPU that's almost double it's predecessors will give you a faster browser.

    Z10STL100-4/10.2.1.1925
    I wouldn't call that decent hardware, it was basic by any standards, it was pathetic specs compared to the competition.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    02-01-14 04:21 PM
  13. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    I wouldn't call that decent hardware, it was basic by any standards, it was pathetic specs compared to the competition.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    That surely has nothing to do with BBOS being so limited, that it either wouldn't even recognise better hardware or couldn't utilise them, right?

    Posted via CB10
    02-01-14 04:43 PM
  14. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    That surely has nothing to do with BBOS being so limited, that it either wouldn't even recognise better hardware or couldn't utilise them, right?

    Posted via CB10
    BB7 utilised the slightly better hardware just fine didn't it? But apparently after that it hit a roadblock and couldn't utilise any further improved hardware.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    02-01-14 05:18 PM
  15. Omnitech's Avatar
    BB7 utilised the slightly better hardware just fine didn't it? But apparently after that it hit a roadblock and couldn't utilise any further improved hardware.

    You forgot the BIS bottleneck. That is a huge part of it.

    I remember how long it took just to download a 1MB app update. Half the time I would just leave the device sitting on the table for 15 minutes while it tried to get out of its own way to download and install that tiny update. (Followed by a complete 7 minute restart, of course)

    BB10 does the same thing in 15 seconds.


    (Yes, that was OS 6 on a 9650. I'm sure the 99xx series improved that a whole 20 percent or something. )
    02-02-14 06:10 AM
  16. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    You forgot the BIS bottleneck. That is a huge part of it.

    I remember how long it took just to download a 1MB app update. Half the time I would just leave the device sitting on the table for 15 minutes while it tried to get out of its own way to download and install that tiny update. (Followed by a complete 7 minute restart, of course)

    BB10 does the same thing in 15 seconds.


    (Yes, that was OS 6 on a 9650. I'm sure the 99xx series improved that a whole 20 percent or something. )
    If you would've owned a BB7 device you would know that it could do simultaneous BIS and direct carrier network unlike BB6 where it was one or the other, but you didn't so you don't.

    You're right there, BB7 did improve that a lot.

    BB6 also wasn't capable of hsdpa+ which was much faster then normal 3G. BB7 was capable, but again, you never owned one.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    02-02-14 06:24 AM
  17. Omnitech's Avatar
    If you would've owned a BB7 device you would know that it could do simultaneous BIS and direct carrier network unlike BB6 where it was one or the other, but you didn't so you don't.

    You're right there, BB7 did improve that a lot.

    You were able to specify on OS6 and the same problems occurred over WiFi in my experience. That, and given all the other examples people have shared about their experiences with OS7 lead me to believe that not much was fundamentally improved.


    BB6 also wasn't capable of hsdpa+ which was much faster then normal 3G. BB7 was capable, but again, you never owned one.

    Would not have made the slightest difference because my carrier does not use GSM.

    Unfortunately, RIM never made an LTE BBOS device (my carrier was the first to roll out LTE here), which is one of the reasons I stopped bothering with BBOS devices.
    02-02-14 06:40 AM
  18. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    You were able to specify on OS6 and the same problems occurred over WiFi in my experience. That, and given all the other examples people have shared about their experiences with OS7 lead me to believe that not much was fundamentally improved.





    Would not have made the slightest difference because my carrier does not use GSM.

    Unfortunately, RIM never made an LTE BBOS device (my carrier was the first to roll out LTE here), which is one of the reasons I stopped bothering with BBOS devices.
    Unless I'm very wrong the 9650 was a OS5 device that later got updated to OS6 and so it's the equivalent of the Bold 9700, TWO generations behind BB7 devices.

    You are basing your opinions on a very old BlackBerry which basically means you have no idea what you're talking about.

    PS the 9650 was launched in 2010, that's what you're basing your BBOS opinion on, a 4 year old device.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    02-02-14 06:54 AM
  19. southlander's Avatar
    I wouldn't call that decent hardware, it was basic by any standards, it was pathetic specs compared to the competition.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    You're avoiding my point. The phones had 1.2 GHZ CPUs. Much faster than the OS 6 phones had.

    Z10STL100-4/10.2.1.1925
    02-02-14 08:33 AM
  20. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    You're avoiding my point. The phones had 1.2 GHZ CPUs. Much faster than the OS 6 phones had.

    Z10STL100-4/10.2.1.1925
    And the BB7 device are much faster then OS6 devices were no?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    02-02-14 08:53 AM
  21. southlander's Avatar
    And the BB7 device are much faster then OS6 devices were no?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Just looked it up. The bold 9780 had a 624 MHZ CPU. So the OS 7 phones had basically double the horsepower.

    So there is no way to objectively say the OS 7 browser was x% faster than the OS 6 browser based on changes only to the software. Not unless BlackBerry or someone else has posted the specifics tested on equal hardware.

    And to answer your question. The OS 7 phones were way better than the OS 6 ones in my opinion. In every way except battery life.

    However the OS 7 phones were not nearly as good as they should have been. A company like BlackBerry that had made billions and knew the threat of the iPhone should have come up with something a lot better.

    Z10STL100-4/10.2.1.1925
    02-02-14 09:59 AM
  22. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Just looked it up. The bold 9780 had a 624 MHZ CPU. So the OS 7 phones had basically double the horsepower.

    So there is no way to objectively say the OS 7 browser was x% faster than the OS 6 browser based on changes only to the software. Not unless BlackBerry or someone else has posted the specifics tested on equal hardware.

    And to answer your question. The OS 7 phones were way better than the OS 6 ones in my opinion. In every way except battery life.

    However the OS 7 phones were not nearly as good as they should have been. A company like BlackBerry that had made billions and knew the threat of the iPhone should have come up with something a lot better.

    Z10STL100-4/10.2.1.1925
    I agree, as much as I liked BB7 it was far from perfect, it took many updates to stabilise the OS and the battery was tiny, the size of a few business cards put together.

    That's why I would want an updated version so badly, it could've been so much better.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    02-02-14 10:11 AM
  23. Bbnivende's Avatar
    It seems to me, correct me if I am wrong, BD's interest in BBOS devices will end when BIS ends, how long will it be before UK carriers no longer offer BIS on new contracts ?

    BlackBerry is fighting for its corporate life on all fronts and may now lack the funds and expertise to make up a new version of BBOS.
    There was a rumor when the 9720 came out that there was a 7.2 version, perhaps there might be something coming yet.

    If BlackBerry can make money from an "9900S" , with a bigger battery, faster processor etc then I see no problem with that. I suspect though that a new Q with a larger screen will dampen the demand for a new 9900 in the North America and Europe. For Indonesia etc perhaps Foxconn could make a cheap but updated BBOS model. Just sell one good BBOS device. The 9720 is far from good.
    02-02-14 10:25 AM
  24. web99's Avatar

    If BlackBerry can make money from an "9900S" , with a bigger battery, faster processor etc then I see no problem with that. I suspect though that a new Q with a larger screen will dampen the demand for a new 9900 in the North America and Europe. For Indonesia etc perhaps Foxconn could make a cheap but updated BBOS model. Just sell one good BBOS device. The 9720 is far from good.
    I don't see that happening. CEO Chen has already confirmed that the "Jakarta" will be a touchscreen device, which the general assumption is that it will be a BB10 device.

    Edit, according to this crackberry post the Jakarta is built on the BB10 platform.
    http://crackberry.com/foxconn-built-...-sig-certified

    Longing for a new BlackBerry/Foxxconn built BBOS device is an exercise in futility. The 9720 that was built last year, in my view was a waste in precious resources and should never have been built. That ship (BBOS) has sailed away long ago.

    Posted from my Samsung Galaxy Note Tablet
    Last edited by web99; 02-02-14 at 11:02 AM.
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    02-02-14 10:38 AM
  25. southlander's Avatar
    I agree, as much as I liked BB7 it was far from perfect, it took many updates to stabilise the OS and the battery was tiny, the size of a few business cards put together.

    That's why I would want an updated version so badly, it could've been so much better.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I'm kind of neutral on this really. On the one hand I think BlackBerry 10 is great but does leave out too much of the traditional BBOS (including hardware) to make the hardest core BlackBerry qwerty fans happy. I can't ignore the many complaints I see on here about this.

    But I think BBOS had issues that apparently could not be fixed unless one believes BlackBerry was just too complacent and or lazy to do so. Or lost the capability somehow.??

    In addition to more traditional BBOS feel options and features in BlackBerry 10, I think BlackBerry should make a NON touch screen phone that has a track pad. I've seen people who just have issues with touchscreens period. Accidental touches. Etc. Surely Foxconn could make a super super inexpensive phone in this manner.

    Basically a larger Bold 97xx with modern processing power and a decently large screen.

    Z10STL100-4/10.2.1.1925
    02-02-14 11:02 AM
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