[Drael646464]

After a year and a half of experimenting, I'm ready to accept the fact that I hate relying on dozens of third-party apps on Android to do a bunch of mundane things. I'm rededicating myself to simplicity and am setting a target of ten apps for which I'll allow shortcuts on the home screen. All other apps will either be uninstalled, or, if that isn't allowed, I will delete their shortcuts and pretend they don't exist.

My question to the community is, if you were limited to a maximum of ten apps on Android, which ones would have you keep?

OsmAnd+ for navigation
Blackberry Calendar for appts
Blackberry Hub for tracking communication in one place
Banking app
Brave Browser
Minds.com app for social media
A good photo editing app
A good music player
Cloud sync app that does full folder sync with my PC.

Honestly, I'd buy a feature phone if had all that QWERTY, and a good camera. Like I literally wouldn't miss anything. My phone is a tool and the stuff I use it for primarily is very simple.

Kinds of miffed KaiOS is so focused on the third world. The could make a low midrange device that does all of the above, is indestructible and have a week long battery life.

[Tsepz_GP]

WhatsApp
Twitter
Uber
Slack
FNB (my bank's app)
Instagram
Apple Music
Discovery (my medical aid's app)
Tapatalk
Samsung Internet

[TgeekB]

Firefox Focus
Owly
Tapatalk
Dark Sky
Keep notes
Gmail
Signal
Bank app
Google maps
Hiya

That’s 10 I believe but there are a few more I need such as notes, Tasks, calendar, etc.

Sorry, can’t get it down to 10 and won’t try.

[rthonpm]

Firefox
Hub/Inbox
OneDrive
OneNote
Invoicing (O365 app)
PowerApps
Twitter
OpenVPN
Lastpass

Plenty more good apps out there but these seem to get the most use.

[fschmeck]

Brave
BB Inbox
Here maps
Telegram
QuickPics
Evernote
D-Notes
Wunderlist
Reebee
1Money
My Banking app

[Chuck Finley69]

OsmAnd+ for navigation
Blackberry Calendar for appts
Blackberry Hub for tracking communication in one place
Banking app
Brave Browser
Minds.com app for social media
A good photo editing app
A good music player
Cloud sync app that does full folder sync with my PC.

Honestly, I'd buy a feature phone if had all that QWERTY, and a good camera. Like I literally wouldn't miss anything. My phone is a tool and the stuff I use it for primarily is very simple.

Kinds of miffed KaiOS is so focused on the third world. The could make a low midrange device that does all of the above, is indestructible and have a week long battery life.

OEMs want to maximize profits. If your region can afford Android/IOS, why cannibalize sales with KaiOS and it’s minimal profits or possible losses?

[Drael646464]

OEMs want to maximize profits. If your region can afford Android/IOS, why cannibalize sales with KaiOS and it’s minimal profits or possible losses?

KaiOS has no license fees and requires minimal processing power/hardware. IDK that profits would really be much different. A lot of people buy feature phones as burner phones, for going outdoors, to festivals or for privacy, money that would never go into smartphones anyway.

Plus margins on smartphones have a major downward trend. The midrange is where it's at currently, and those can be pretty razor thin, and obviously, eventually, the budget market will dominate (we are post peak). Add to that the smartphone market is majorly competitive and a lot of OEMs can barely get a word in.

I mean why did nokia make the 8110? I bet they made money despite it being a crap implementation of a feature phone. People have made roms for it. I bet that money didn't eat into their nokia 8 sales.

Also see japan; they have flip phones with 3d screens, fingerprint readers and military grade shock/dust/water protection that retail for like 600 bucks (Sony makes some of them).

Nobody has actually tried selling a higher end feature phone in western markets in over a decade, and KaiOS is uniquely equipped because it has Google investing (and the whole google suite) plus a massive userbase. It's better that series 60/40 etc ever was.

Pack it with those outdoor features, and I bet you'd have at least some sales. I mean now, versus then you've got digital detox/minimalism, burner phone sales have gone up, plus the outdoor crowd.

This reminds me a little of how everyone said isometric RPG games were dead, and all the distributors gave up on it. Fast forward, then some kickstarters made a little bank, and now they've both done well enough they were purchased by xbox studios.

There are two Nokia communicator style androids in crowdfunding right now, that have both garnered millions. People ought to open their minds, times change, the major change being the uptick in burner phone sales and the digital detox thing (the dumbgrade). There's a market.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

There are two Nokia communicator style androids in crowdfunding right now, that have both garnered millions. People ought to open their minds, times change, the major change being the uptick in burner phone sales and the digital detox thing (the dumbgrade). There's a market.

I suspect that in the US.... AT&T, Verizon and T-Mobile control what most users see, and the market in general.... to a degree. But personally I don't see a lot of people buying burner phones, nor do I see a lot of digital detox going on here. Most of the uptick in Feature Phone sales... are coming from Middle East and Africa. Which is why that where most this devices are being sold (along with India and other one time 3rd world markets).

I do think the is a market for KaiOS in the US... feature phone with a few key smartphone apps along with browser and email. I know a lot of people that don't really use a smartphone as anything but a feature phone. In time I expect we will see a more of KaiOS here... but then most the feature phone sold here, are more than some cheap Android phones.

[Drael646464]

Certainly, the vast majority of the rise of KaiOS is via India etc. In the US, there are still feature phones packaged with provider plans but they primarily target old people. Of course a burner phone, or other 'non driver' isn't usually packaged on a plan so it will be somewhat invisible.

It's hard to get hard numbers without paying for it, and market is not helped by the fact that KaiOS is a new player, and only noteworthy phone running it in western markets is the 8110 which has been criticised for numerous short falls (like lacking either QWERTY, or a way to use voice for input in apps, which jiophone has both of).

And as you say, at the release price of the 8110, which has since gone down, one would expect better than a 2MP camera! Most of the old qwerty nokia phones had either 5 or 8, and 8 or 12 wouldn't be too much to expect these days.

Plus one of the main benefits of a feature phone, durability, wasn't really there with a awkwardly unpocket shaped slider.

Ideally with a western market feature phone, you'd want to hit 'every box'; old people, outdoors people, burner phones, digital detoxers because they are all small markets. I'd do a basic version and a rugged version.

Something like the JioPhone 2 with better hardware (especially camera, CPU, battery), and some shock/water/dust resistence.

In japan there's a company that does a personally designed '18 angle 1.8m drop test' for all their flip phones. Even the Sony flip android phone has military grade shock ratings and it doesn't look ruggedized at all. In japan they design for easy to pocket, long battery life, and proofing.

They have a feature phone that has outdoorsy features like temperature, even a fishing app. In the west, a surf app, and a fishing app would be a good add, as well as detailled weather. Hunting is big in the US right? I wonder what you could package there? For festival goers (nursing the battery of a phone at a three day concert is a pain in the butt), and it's always hard to find anyone if you lose them, so that's another angle (offgrid maps with geotagging?).

If you look at reviews on GSM for old feature phones, you'll notice at least a few talk about dumbgrading for digital detox. IDK how popular it is, but minimalism in general is a trend; minimalism, tiny houses, lite computing etc. That's only going to increase the more tech saturated our society gets IMO.

[brookie229]

That's only going to increase the more tech saturated our society gets IMO.

Don't forget that our populations are aging. More and more elderly who tend to shun complications (ie apps and clutter on a device).

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Don't forget that our populations are aging. More and more elderly who tend to shun complications (ie apps and clutter on a device).

But do they want to deal with small screens and tiny buttons?

My dad likes a big screen.... and virtual buttons he can make bigger. I can't see him using a physical standard phone keyboard or a qwerty keyboard anymore. KaiOS would meet his basic needs, if it was a 6" slab.

I did look at getting him a Senior phone... Jitterbug, a couple of years ago. But he really likes using the Assistant and Google Maps for getting around town. And he does keep up with the Kids, Grandkids and Great-Grandkids on Instagram. He doesn't post, but he keeps up.

Market for dumb phones or feature phones in the US... of course. A lot of people downgrading to either... that I'm not sure about.

[Drael646464]

Don't forget that our populations are aging. More and more elderly who tend to shun complications (ie apps and clutter on a device).

True, with dropping birthrates, not only the boomers, but successive generations will experience an age tilt. Even if they know how to use technology, eyesight, hearing and cognition fade.

Actually that's a good reason to build future feature phones around web served AI too. Voice, properly done, could add a lot of useability in age.

[Bbnivende]

Google maps
Google Photos
Google Music
Chromecast
Chrome

[Drael646464]

But do they want to deal with small screens and tiny buttons?

My dad likes a big screen.... and virtual buttons he can make bigger. I can't see him using a physical standard phone keyboard or a qwerty keyboard anymore. KaiOS would meet his basic needs, if it was a 6" slab.

I did look at getting him a Senior phone... Jitterbug, a couple of years ago. But he really likes using the Assistant and Google Maps for getting around town. And he does keep up with the Kids, Grandkids and Great-Grandkids on Instagram. He doesn't post, but he keeps up.

Market for dumb phones or feature phones in the US... of course. A lot of people downgrading to either... that I'm not sure about.

One thing about the JioPhone 2 that I think makes it work for older folks is that every text entry in every app can be voiced, by hitting a button.

Qwerty you are right, is a bit small in terms of keys, and anything geared for older folks needs large text display. This is probably why when people do release lots of feature phones, like in Japan, there are some distinct variations (general, outdoorsy & older).

Again, IDK about actual figures for downgrades, or burner phones for certain contexts (as a day phone, concerts, privacy, whatever). All I know is this is now something people do, and they didn't really used to back in the last days of mainstream feature phones. You'll find amazon reviews, youtube videos, etc about people doing this. Of course it's particularly hard to judge the market for this, because there are virtually no new phones of any real merit (for example the last nokia's had 8MP shooters, trackpads, compare that to the pitiful 8110).

I think most people downgrading are buying like refurbished old blackberrys and nokias, and statistically those kinds of things are sort of invisible.

If the west had something like the JioPhone 2 (ie with full voice intergration+qwerty), but with a trackpad, some 'proofing' and a decent camera, it'd be much easier to judge numbers.

As an aside, KaiOS is sort of between a feature phone and a smartphone. They had a google investment because it's done much better than android go in developing markets. So it has the full google suite, including assistant and maps. Also, FB, twitter, instagram, whatsapp. It's actually already more replete with apps than series 40/60 etc ever was.