[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Yes. You and Dunt and countless others are forever in our debt for your valuable assistance thru the years. Thank you all. You, yourself, have assisted me in ways worthy of compensation... if we could figure that out? There are donation models... ?

There are a handful of members, tho, who do a pretty effective job of making legacy and/or PKB enthusiasts feel pretty un-welcome. I know and work with legacy users who haven't posted here since about 2014 because, true or not, they view this site as antagonistic to legacy. Is this a "local" perception? Or larger?? I've noted it as well. Is this hypersensitivity on my part?

I'm posing the question for possible consideration in case the community might want to take a closer look at potential perceptions? Or not??

This is a free forum and I haven't supported it financially since CB Store. I'm certainly in no position to complain or even advise. Just suggesting to ponder if so inclined.

BBOS users felt left out when BB10 hit.
BB10 users felt left out when BB Android hit

How much of that was due to BlackBerry moving on and how much was posters that taught supporting what was current was the only way to have a future.... who knows?

Moot point now. Enjoy what works for you, while you can.

[Summer_Moon]

I don't see it. This site is the world's go-to location for help and information regarding BlackBerry phones. If you know of any other where one can find information on keeping BB10 phones usable or on deciphering KeyOne PRD numbers please tell us.

There is a German forum similar to CB called BlackBerryBase ( https://www.blackberrybase.net/content.php )

[idssteve]

I don't see it. This site is the world's go-to location for help and information regarding BlackBerry phones. If you know of any other where one can find information on keeping BB10 phones usable or on deciphering KeyOne PRD numbers please tell us.

It's certainly THE go to site... for those who go... thanks to knowledge contributions from great folks.

Lurking and participating aren't necessarily equivalent, tho. I'm fully willing to accept that I may be hypersensitive. To gage yourself, put yourself in the shoes of an iPhone user curious about what PKB might offer. Then, read the first ten posts of the top ten General threads on a given day. For these past several years. . Imagine feeling enthusiastic about PKB after reading some of those posts. ??

Again, myself and co-workers might just be hypersensitive. If so, it might be the ONLY time I've ever been accused of "sensitivity" of any kind... but... I AM getting old... Lol.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Yes, but you're missing the forest for the trees. Star Trek was cancelled, despite the fact that its ratings were half-decent and its fans were passionate, because it wasn't profitable. And the reason it wasn't profitable was that its fan base was too diverse demographically for any cohesive marketing strategy that would attract advertisers to buy spots.

The problem with the remaining BlackBerry fans is that they don't all want the same features and form factor at the same price through the same distribution channels. It doesn't matter if there are 1 million or 50 million people who might consider a new BlackBerry phone if you can find them in the same place with the same product at the same price and with the same marketing plan.

Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android

Nah, just like Star Trek more than PKB phones.

I've stated a number of times that is the problem with the PKB userbase.... I get it.

[bb10adopter111]

Nah, just like Star Trek more than PKB phones.

LOL. Me, too.

Until a few years ago. The PKB was not what drew people to BlackBerry devices. It was the functionality of real-time, secure business communications. The PKB was part of the design needed to support that. Now, the remaining fan base has largely fetishised the PKB as the raison-d'etre of BlackBerry.

I respect everyone's preferences, but, as someone obviously holding on to an EOL phone that lacks many conveniences because it's a better practical daily carry device for me, I don't understand the frustration. If I was as attached to the BlackBerry Android KEY phones as I am to my BB10 Z10, I would have no problem making the minor compromises needed to use it for several more years. I plan to keep my KEYone as my primary Android device at least until the end of 2021 and hopefully a year longer.

We all make compromises in the technology we buy. It definitely annoys me that I have to carry a second phone just for apps like Slack. But that's the best case scenario for me in 2020, so it's a totally acceptable compromise.

My advice to people who like the KEY phones would be to buy one and use it as long as possible, using these boards to mitigate any bugs or security issues that arise. If the PKB is the most important feature, then the necessary compromises will be worth it..

[the_boon]

Nah, just like Star Trek more than PKB phones.

I've stated a number of times that is the problem with the PKB userbase.... I get it.

It's still kind of appalling to me to say a handful of folks on these forums are in any way responsible for the demise of BlackBerry phones or the PKB.

If I'm responsible, then how much more so is Whiney Lewie from Unbox Therapy responsible with his "Do NOT buy the BB KEY2" video which got close to 3 million views?
Not counting all the other mainstream reviewers who, for the most part, bashed the phone for things it wasn't trying to be, while barely giving the central feature (PKB) a fair shot.

[bb10adopter111]

It's still kind of appalling to me to say a handful of folks on these forums are in any way responsible for the demise of BlackBerry phones or the PKB.

If I'm responsible, then how much more so is Whiney Lewie from Unbox Therapy responsible with his "Do NOT buy the BB KEY2" video which got close to 3 million views?
Not counting all the other mainstream reviewers who, for the most part, bashed the phone for things it wasn't trying to be, while barely giving the central feature (PKB) a fair shot.

Correct.

The ONLY people responsible for people not buying the phone are the people who did not buy it and chose something else.

I bet less than 5% of people buying phones put much thought into it at all beyond budget and where to buy it. In the US people who can afford it generally prefer Apple because they perceive it (correctly) as the easiest, most reliable choice. Many people who don't buy Apple don't actually realize that there is a different OS, called Android, on their phones!

Forums like this make small issues into large issues, and that's fine, because that's what fans do. But just as most normal people don't get into debates about the consistency of Yoda's personality across the Star Wars saga, most normal phone users pay very little attention to the details of the hardware and OS on their devices.

Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android

[beercan640]

Cancelled?!

I was waiting for official specifications on Nokia 9.2

going to be a tough go without a PKB but Nokia is what I used before my first Blackberry purchase in 2007

[Summer_Moon]

Cancelled?!

I was waiting for official specifications on Nokia 9.2

going to be a tough go without a PKB but Nokia is what I used before my first Blackberry purchase in 2007

Nokia said that they will have a separate launch event for their phones, hopefully through a stream.

I do know that Sony has said that they will still be launching their phone(s) on the same day and time as was originally scheduled for MWC, but will be on youtube as a live stream instead.

[the_boon]

Cancelled?!

I was waiting for official specifications on Nokia 9.2

going to be a tough go without a PKB but Nokia is what I used before my first Blackberry purchase in 2007

If you're gonna type on glass, I don't see how a Nokia would serve any better than another well supported slab from a reputable manufacturer.

[conite]

If you're gonna type on glass, I don't see how a Nokia would serve any better than another well supported slab from a reputable manufacturer.

Android One. Not Chinese.

Personally I would only consider Pixel or Nokia today, with Samsung in distant 3rd.

[bb10adopter111]

Android One. Not Chinese.

Personally I would only consider Pixel or Nokia today, with Samsung in distant 3rd.

I agree 1000% on avoiding Chinese OEMS.

Personally, if I get another Android I'll be using a custom ROM like CopperheadOS, which runs great on the Pixel 3a. It's not for the faint of heart, but I want the extra controls.

Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android

[Chuck Finley69]

It's still kind of appalling to me to say a handful of folks on these forums are in any way responsible for the demise of BlackBerry phones or the PKB.

If I'm responsible, then how much more so is Whiney Lewie from Unbox Therapy responsible with his "Do NOT buy the BB KEY2" video which got close to 3 million views?
Not counting all the other mainstream reviewers who, for the most part, bashed the phone for things it wasn't trying to be, while barely giving the central feature (PKB) a fair shot.

Now come on boon. Look at who said it before you really think it was seriously believable. Sarcasm abounds here.... We’ve all had our share of PKB laughter with you, but NOBODY is genuinely attacking you. Especially, not our Florida panhandle brother to our north west....

[Emaderton3]

Now come on boon. Look at who said it before you really think it was seriously believable. Sarcasm abounds here.... We’ve all had our share of PKB laughter with you, but NOBODY is genuinely attacking you. Especially, not our Florida panhandle brother to our north west....

I don't trust that guy. Pkb life

[danfrancisco]

The idea that the_boon is responsible for the demise of the pkb is pretty hilarious! If I were you, boon, I'd wear that one like a badge of honour! If you can taketh away, you can bringeth back!

[the_boon]

The idea that the_boon is responsible for the demise of the pkb is pretty hilarious! If I were you, boon, I'd wear that one like a badge of honour! If you can taketh away, you can bringeth back!

Lol yeah I must be directly responsible for us not getting the KEY3...

Much more than all the popular "techtubers" whose KEY2 bashing videos amounted to several millions of views lol

[idssteve]

It's still kind of appalling to me to say a handful of folks on these forums are in any way responsible for the demise of BlackBerry phones or the PKB.

If I'm responsible, then how much more so is Whiney Lewie from Unbox Therapy responsible with his "Do NOT buy the BB KEY2" video which got close to 3 million views?
Not counting all the other mainstream reviewers who, for the most part, bashed the phone for things it wasn't trying to be, while barely giving the central feature (PKB) a fair shot.

None of us come here to lie. I've never perceived you as anything but honest. Maybe brutally so (lol) but... If honesty about what we like &/or dislike about a given product impacts potential customer purchase decisions, maybe it's best that customer didn't buy an unsatisfactory product to then add to returns count? ??

I've also suffered confliction over supporting BB by purchasing, and therefore condoning, misguided product designs. I've purchased multiple examples of virtually every handset BB has sold in US. Each step of the way, since 2012, BB cranked out an even more misguided design. It seems that the more we condoned them by buying them, the worse they got! Lol. Finally, with K1, they achieved a worse typing experience for MY thumb than some slabs! Some compromises in life truly satisfy NO one, imo. K2 and LE quickly corrected that but too little, too late, imo. How many "modern" users are willing to permanently sacrifice their precious screen estate just to type SLOWER? Or just marginally better? ??

Even in MY case, LE is barely good enough to keep me. If the typing experience provided isn't WAY better, how many will opt for PKB? Clearly, not enough. As things turned out.

That's not MY fault! It's not YOUR fault! All the lies in the world can't overcome the 4 dimensional realities confronting user thumbs. It's the fault of design decisions inflicted by designers who've utterly forgotten what "BlackBerry experience" was. Imo. Or who never knew.

Clearly, there's far, FAR more to "BB experience" than just slapping a PKB under a slab. Even Q10 "looked" like a BB. In photos, at least. Lol. Which might be the closest QNX/BB10 team ever got to a "real" BlackBerry? ?? Lmao.

The BLAME for the self inflicted amnesia that fatally divided BB itself, as well as their userbase ever since, rests with Mike. Imo. For sequestering BB10 from legacy experience. Because of a silly book Mike had read? ?? Here we are, Mike. Lol.

[bb10adopter111]

None of us come here to lie. I've never perceived you as anything but honest. Maybe brutally so (lol) but... If honesty about what we like &/or dislike about a given product impacts potential customer purchase decisions, maybe it's best that customer didn't buy an unsatisfactory product to then add to returns count? ??

I've also suffered confliction over supporting BB by purchasing, and therefore condoning, misguided product designs. I've purchased multiple examples of virtually every handset BB has sold in US. Each step of the way, since 2012, BB cranked out an even more misguided design. It seems that the more we condoned them by buying them, the worse they got! Lol. Finally, with K1, they achieved a worse typing experience for MY thumb than some slabs! Some compromises in life truly satisfy NO one, imo. K2 and LE quickly corrected that but too little, too late, imo. How many "modern" users are willing to permanently sacrifice their precious screen estate just to type SLOWER? Or just marginally better? ??

Even in MY case, LE is barely good enough to keep me. If the typing experience provided isn't WAY better, how many will opt for PKB? Clearly, not enough. As things turned out.

That's not MY fault! It's not YOUR fault! All the lies in the world can't overcome the 4 dimensional realities confronting user thumbs. It's the fault of design decisions inflicted by designers who've utterly forgotten what "BlackBerry experience" was. Imo. Or who never knew.

Clearly, there's far, FAR more to "BB experience" than just slapping a PKB under a slab. Even Q10 "looked" like a BB. In photos, at least. Lol. Which might be the closest QNX/BB10 team ever got to a "real" BlackBerry? ?? Lmao.

The BLAME for the self inflicted amnesia that fatally divided BB itself, as well as their userbase ever since, rests with Mike. Imo. For sequestering BB10 from legacy experience. Because of a silly book Mike had read? ?? Here we are, Mike. Lol.

I agree with almost everything you say about the PKB typing experience post 2012. I respectfully disagree about the usability of the VKB on BB10. I am in the minority that SLIGHTLY prefer BB10 with a VKB to BBOS on the best legacy phones.

I'm a minority within a minority within a minority in that I like BB10 with a VKB on the Z10 over every other mobile phone ever made. My #2 choice would be my Bold 9700 (with its 2.4 inch non-touch LCD screen!)

Like you, I completely agree that the ergonomics of PKBs are completely broken and absurd on the KEY phones. (I use my KEYone with the VKB rather than the PKB for all serious typing!). I am more forgiving to the BB10 PKBs, with the obvious exception of the Passport. I love the Passport for many reasons, but the typing ergonomics is not one of them due to balance issues.

If I knew that BIS would be supported and BBOS patched for security, I would pay $10 a month to run a legacy BlackBerry indefinitely, before I would use an iPhone or Android as a daily driver.



Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android

[danfrancisco]

I use my KEYone with the VKB rather than the PKB for all serious typing!

Now that's just crazy talk!!!

[bb10adopter111]

Now that's just crazy talk!!!

LOL. I know, but the position of the VKB, above the PKB, right in the middle of the phone, makes my KEYone allows for the best thumb positioning since the legacy BBOS phones. I can balance the phone perfectly on my index fingers and my thumbs hover directly over the home row.

I bought the phone for the PKB shortcuts to compensate for Android's horrid UI, and I never thought I would use the VKB the way I do.

Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android

[the_boon]

LOL. I know, but the position of the VKB, above the PKB, right in the middle of the phone, makes my KEYone allows for the best thumb positioning since the legacy BBOS phones. I can balance the phone perfectly on my index fingers and my thumbs hover directly over the home row.

I bought the phone for the PKB shortcuts to compensate for Android's horrid UI, and I never thought I would use the VKB the way I do.

Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android

This is also why the LE is better than the KEYone.

You can still have the VKB (but trust me you won't want to use it) and you have the speed key which greatly improves the app switching experience, as opposed to the KEYone having to return to the home screen to use the keyboard shortcuts

[bb10adopter111]

This is also why the LE is better than the KEYone.

You can still have the VKB (but trust me you won't want to use it) and you have the speed key which greatly improves the app switching experience, as opposed to the KEYone having to return to the home screen to use the keyboard shortcuts

Agree on the speed key, totally disagree on the PKB balance. I used one for 20 minutes once at Best Buy. It was lighter but weight was never the problem with my KEYone. The PKB is still too far below the center of gravity.

Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android

[the_boon]

Agree on the speed key, totally disagree on the PKB balance. I used one for 20 minutes once at Best Buy. It was lighter but weight was never the problem with my KEYone. The PKB is still too far below the center of gravity.

Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android

When you tried it, was it free from any anti-theft device?

Like literally just the device itself?

Because for me, the LE is the only one of the three KEY phones that I can type fairly quickly one handed, I also slapped a black gel case on it which adds even more grip, and due to the phone's lightness, it feels very secure in the hand

[idssteve]

I agree with almost everything you say about the PKB typing experience post 2012. I respectfully disagree about the usability of the VKB on BB10. I am in the minority that SLIGHTLY prefer BB10 with a VKB to BBOS on the best legacy phones.

I'm a minority within a minority within a minority in that I like BB10 with a VKB on the Z10 over every other mobile phone ever made. My #2 choice would be my Bold 9700 (with its 2.4 inch non-touch LCD screen!)

Like you, I completely agree that the ergonomics of PKBs are completely broken and absurd on the KEY phones. (I use my KEYone with the VKB rather than the PKB for all serious typing!). I am more forgiving to the BB10 PKBs, with the obvious exception of the Passport. I love the Passport for many reasons, but the typing ergonomics is not one of them due to balance issues.

If I knew that BIS would be supported and BBOS patched for security, I would pay $10 a month to run a legacy BlackBerry indefinitely, before I would use an iPhone or Android as a daily driver.



Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android

BB10 eventually evolved into a solid OS. If my Z10 had shipped with 10.3.3, I might still be using it. And BB might, maybe, still be a thing. Sadly, the OS Z & Q launched with wasn't even half baked. In my office, spring 2013, we jokingly referred to that launch version BB10 as "Barely Baked When?" Lol.

By the time they got OS on its legs, hardware design had gotten misguided down the "size envy" path to oblivion. Imo. Among many other things.

Never got to try 10.3.3 on my Z10... Some in the office reported some sort of difficulty with upgrading os on those very early Z's...??

[bb10adopter111]

When you tried it, was it free from any anti-theft device?

Like literally just the device itself?

Because for me, the LE is the only one of the three KEY phones that I can type fairly quickly one handed, I also slapped a black gel case on it which adds even more grip, and due to the phone's lightness, it feels very secure in the hand

Yes. Let me explain more clearly.

I use mobile for 90% of all my email, typing several hours a day on mobile. I need the phone to balance on my index fingers (no cradling or having to tip the phone up to ban ace on the pinkies) with my thumbs positioned over the home row on the keyboard.

I can do that on all legacy BlackBerry phones as well as the Z10, Q1, Q5 and Classic. On the Passport, Priv and KEY phones, however, the keyboard is too far below the center line of the phone. If I balance any if those in the ideal typing position without cradling, they will tip forward and fall out of my hand.

This is no big deal for occasional typing, but after 2 hours of constant use, it becomes stressful. There just is no way to stick a 3:2 or 16:9 glass screen on top of a PKB with the KB in the correct location for my thumbs.

Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android