07-21-11 07:39 PM
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  1. brucep1's Avatar
    I'm so glad someone said this! I mean, what's Steve Jobs really done? If we exclude the Apple I and II, the Macintosh, the iPod, iPhone and iPad, and ignore the movies Pixar released while he owned it (Toy Story and Toy Story 2, Finding Nemo, The Incredibles, etc), the guy seems like a total failure to me. He really should've stayed in school.



    Suddenly I'm picturing you on an island, alone, spear-fishing and talking to a volleyball with a bloody handprint on it.



    And yet people keep buying them! 20 million just this last quarter, even though it's now a year old! But you're right, there's nothing new to pull people towards iPhones now. Forget touchscreens; it's all about physical keyboards, because physical keyboards are the future. Count on it.

    First time a user has actually made me spit out coffee laughing while reading these forums.
    07-20-11 08:44 AM
  2. OMGitworks's Avatar
    Here I thought that this post was about RIM pulling/recalling its latest Playbook update because, surprise, it was buggy as ****.

    I don't know what the future of RIM is, but lets remember that their main competitors are Apple, Google and, likely, Microsoft. Each of those companies dwarfs RIM, and each of those companies offers many, many other services which they can integrate into their mobile platforms. I do think that this is one reason why RIM will likely never regain their spot at the top of the food chain. Apple is able to integrate the iPod, iTunes, iCloud, etc., with their mobile devices. Google can go bonkers integrating Gmail, Google Navigation, Gtalk, Google Music, Google+, etc., into their platform. Microsoft can go crazy integrating Office, Live Messenger, SkyDrive, etc., into their platform. RIM doesn't have those native services, aside from BBM, and will have to rely on 3rd parties to offer alternatives, or attempt themselves to become a software company, which clearly is not their strong suit.
    If OS7 phones don't sell well, or there is a bad launch which seems to be RIM's specialty lately, or if diehard BB folks are willing to wait it out for QNX, then don't be too surprised if the stock price goes even lower and a company like Microsoft just takes them over. It would make perfect sense at that point.
    07-20-11 08:45 AM
  3. diegonei's Avatar
    They aren't growing tho, sure the numbers say they have growth but their international subscriber growth hasn't equated much money, a ton of those phones were all but given away as a quick route for cash and a huge number of those people use them as WiFi only devices without service. Hop onto to some foreign BlackBerry forums and you'll see it almost appears as tho most people don't even have a mobile plan, they bought a BlackBerry because it was dirt cheap. These people are mostly in poverished areas and won't ever be thinking about os7 or qnx, in fact, the 8330 is still rims largest selling phone. That isn't sustainable, it was a quick fix and those numbers won't matter for long. Notice how they brag about subscriber numbers when other mobile companies brag about device sales figures
    Given away where? All the 97xx, 98xx and 8520s I see around in Brasil were bought (and at high prices). Same goes in the UK. Philipines (remember the video Kevin shot?) has so bloody many shops it isn't even funny.

    "Poverished areas". People in poverished areas do not bother with phones! This is what is so silly about some north americans. Some of you don't have a clue about how it is out there and just fart out opinions as if they were true. Sorry to all the level headed north american members in here, but I bet you know at least one example of what I mentioned.

    Be serious Katie, one thing is being a hater, one thing is being a troll, what comment was plain silly.

    On the 83xx and subscribers. I think that report was released almost two years ago and i expect it to reflects a period of time a little earlier to the report itself (feel free to correct me as I am not sure on this). Subscribers are huge for RIM you see, and not important to others. Why? BIS/BES. Or did you really ignore that bit of the equation?

    Sore, they are losing market in the US and if they don't move fast, it will eventually catch up worldwide, but i know of the UK and Brasil and we have new models and growth. That means data plans (BIS for 5 ffs!! I hate the brits :P) and that translate into monthly money heading to the RIMpire.

    If OS7 phones don't sell well, or there is a bad launch which seems to be RIM's specialty lately, or if diehard BB folks are willing to wait it out for QNX, then don't be too surprised if the stock price goes even lower and a company like Microsoft just takes them over. It would make perfect sense at that point.
    You have such a valid point... My marketing professor back at uni failed all of us when we decided to launch a tech product in waves. I quote "the tech market moves to fast. Before you know it, innovative is copies and becomes old news. If your product is unique, release it wordwide, even if it isn't, if you don't, there will be something better out there before you can finish deployment". At announcement time, the PB had leading tech specs. Now, it is one more tabled in the fold (a very powerful one, but specs have been matched).

    And what of making the customer notice it? From what I recall, you didn't see *(&% until the actual device was on shelves. How do you get average joe dying for a device he never heard off???? RIM??? Really??

    The PB (or the PB 4G) will be launching here in Brasil anyday now (or so I like to think because of the latest OS update and website). You guys have tv ads and all that. I've never seen a BlackBerry ad on open tv here. Cable, had seen 2 in one year.

    How do they expect to make sales in this model is beyond me. Now Xperia has a funny series of Xperia Family tv ads, made in Brasil with brasilian actors. BB ads are on youtube and are just "generic" ads, translated.

    PS: See Katie darling? I can point RIM's mistakes and weaknesses, but I do back it up with fact and in a way they could act on it if they ever get to read the post.
    Last edited by diegonei; 07-20-11 at 09:28 AM.
    07-20-11 09:11 AM
  4. PsyCorps's Avatar
    The only thing I know about economics is that my month is always longer than my salary for some reason, having said that, this is what I think:
    Every company that does well for whatever reason gets popular and makes a lot of money, by making a lot of money the expectations of a company rise to extreme ridiculous heights, the moment that they can't come up with something as successfully as the thing that they scored so big with it comes crumbling down like a house of cards leaving just the original foundation of the company as it was before it scored a (lucky?) "hit"
    Apple and Android are "hip" now, RIM was "hip" if we wait a little and RIM can keep it's foundations up they will be "hip" again and people will pay ridiculous amounts of money to get their stock again...
    easy come, easy go...it's modern day economics...
    diegonei likes this.
    07-20-11 09:33 AM
  5. badger906's Avatar
    the point I was getting at that without the success of the iPod people wouldn't have jumped on the next iThing band waggon. im not saying mr jobs hasn't done an amazing job of the iCreations. I myself am a mac user, but I dont think Macs would have become as iconic again if not for the success of the iPod.
    but that's just my opinion, everyones allowed one

    theres nothing pulling me towards the iPhone 5 or iPad 2 as neither does much more than the previous versions.

    I jumped ship when my 3g no longer supported games and some apps. felt as if I was being forced to upgrade.
    07-20-11 10:22 AM
  6. Economist101's Avatar
    The only thing I know about economics is that my month is always longer than my salary for some reason, having said that, this is what I think:
    Every company that does well for whatever reason gets popular and makes a lot of money, by making a lot of money the expectations of a company rise to extreme ridiculous heights, the moment that they can't come up with something as successfully as the thing that they scored so big with it comes crumbling down like a house of cards leaving just the original foundation of the company as it was before it scored a (lucky?) "hit"
    Apple and Android are "hip" now, RIM was "hip" if we wait a little and RIM can keep it's foundations up they will be "hip" again and people will pay ridiculous amounts of money to get their stock again...
    easy come, easy go...it's modern day economics...
    Stocks aren't quite that cyclical. The truth about most companies is that once there stack dips the way RIM's has, they don't come back. That's what makes the Apple story so startling.

    However, in the case of RIM, the stock price makes the company look worse off than it actually is, so a comeback is more likely than it was for Apple at its weakest point in the late '90s. But as I've said before, Apple had the benefit of bringing in its vanquished co-founder to bring the company back. In RIM's case, though it certainly is nowhere near as bad off as Apple was, the fact that its co-CEOs have ridden it down to where it is makes me doubt that they have the vision necessary to do something like what Apple has done. As a company, you really need something special to save yourself at times like this, and I'm not sure the current guys can deliver that, though at the same time I don't know that there's anyone out there who is both better than RIM's current chiefs and also available.
    07-20-11 10:27 AM
  7. Economist101's Avatar
    the point I was getting at that without the success of the iPod people wouldn't have jumped on the next iThing band waggon. im not saying mr jobs hasn't done an amazing job of the iCreations. I myself am a mac user, but I dont think Macs would have become as iconic again if not for the success of the iPod.
    but that's just my opinion, everyones allowed one
    Yes, everyone is allowed an opinion, including me. In my opinion, your opinion was unreasonable, but to each their own.

    theres nothing pulling me towards the iPhone 5 or iPad 2 as neither does much more than the previous versions.
    You don't know what the iPhone 5 does yet, since it hasn't been announced or pictured by Gizmodo. And had you initially written that nothing was pulling you towards those devices, it would've been fine. But you said nothing was pulling people towards them, which is unreasonable in light of Apple announcing 30 million units sold in the last quarter.

    I jumped ship when my 3g no longer supported games and some apps. felt as if I was being forced to upgrade.
    Ah. So then you must REALLY object to the BlackBerry OS 7 devices coming soon, since they will not support next year's QNX-based phone OS. Therefore, RIM will clearly be "forcing" users to upgrade for QNX-based apps, since the way to "force" users to upgrade is to tell them that their years-old hardware might not support new apps.
    07-20-11 10:47 AM
  8. ragingklu's Avatar
    Rumor has it the Microsoft is headed to Waterloo. Probably just tin foil hat internet stuff but it might make some sense for both companies. Wouldn't be good for Rim tho.
    Why would that be so bad? Many people object to this because of their fanboi status or stereotyping nonsense. I see that as a possible way for both companies to move forward and offer consumers better producs. What good is it going to do RIM to just spiral down into oblivion? I'm not saying they're on their way to that directly, but what good is RIM going to do you if they can't produce, MARKET, and SELL a good product?
    07-20-11 11:22 AM
  9. PsyCorps's Avatar
    Stocks aren't quite that cyclical. The truth about most companies is that once there stack dips the way RIM's has, they don't come back. That's what makes the Apple story so startling.

    However, in the case of RIM, the stock price makes the company look worse off than it actually is, so a comeback is more likely than it was for Apple at its weakest point in the late '90s. But as I've said before, Apple had the benefit of bringing in its vanquished co-founder to bring the company back. In RIM's case, though it certainly is nowhere near as bad off as Apple was, the fact that its co-CEOs have ridden it down to where it is makes me doubt that they have the vision necessary to do something like what Apple has done. As a company, you really need something special to save yourself at times like this, and I'm not sure the current guys can deliver that, though at the same time I don't know that there's anyone out there who is both better than RIM's current chiefs and also available.
    You forget one BIG thing, RIM has got Kevin
    And I've never seen him wearing a turtleneck sweater (to me also a BIG +, I hate those things )

    edit: damn it if english is not your native language and the spell check isn't that good
    Last edited by PsyCorps; 07-20-11 at 11:39 AM.
    diegonei likes this.
    07-20-11 11:36 AM
  10. 1magine's Avatar
    They aren't growing tho, sure the numbers say they have growth but their international subscriber growth hasn't equated much money, a ton of those phones were all but given away as a quick route for cash and a huge number of those people use them as WiFi only devices without service. Hop onto to some foreign BlackBerry forums and you'll see it almost appears as tho most people don't even have a mobile plan, they bought a BlackBerry because it was dirt cheap. These people are mostly in poverished areas and won't ever be thinking about os7 or qnx, in fact, the 8330 is still rims largest selling phone. That isn't sustainable, it was a quick fix and those numbers won't matter for long. Notice how they brag about subscriber numbers when other mobile companies brag about device sales figures

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Exactly. Foreign growth is the myth that keeps being told, but educated investors and analysts don't listen to stories, the look at facts figures and contracts. Analyst don't look at the executive summary in the annual financials, they read every page. Hence, why RIM is hovering between 25-26.
    07-20-11 11:44 AM
  11. 1magine's Avatar
    I'm so glad someone said this! I mean, what's Steve Jobs really done? If we exclude the Apple I and II, the Macintosh, the iPod, iPhone and iPad, and ignore the movies Pixar released while he owned it (Toy Story and Toy Story 2, Finding Nemo, The Incredibles, etc), the guy seems like a total failure to me. He really should've stayed in school.



    Suddenly I'm picturing you on an island, alone, spear-fishing and talking to a volleyball with a bloody handprint on it.



    And yet people keep buying them! 20 million just this last quarter, even though it's now a year old! But you're right, there's nothing new to pull people towards iPhones now. Forget touchscreens; it's all about physical keyboards, because physical keyboards are the future. Count on it.
    LMAO - and on and back off again.
    07-20-11 11:50 AM
  12. HeezyBear's Avatar

    I see more blackberries day to day than iPhones. I just think RIM need better marketing. I never see BlackBerry adverts on tv here in the UK, only time you get them are on sky Atlantic channel before certain HBO productions, even then its hard to tell its a bb advert.
    As I've said previously, all the marketing in the world still isn't going to make it any less of a pain for developers to make apps for the BB platform. A lack of strong marketing isn't the only thing holding BB back and a presence of it isn't the only thing keeping Apple ahead.
    07-20-11 12:16 PM
  13. 1magine's Avatar
    well said.
    07-20-11 12:17 PM
  14. diegonei's Avatar
    As I've said previously, all the marketing in the world still isn't going to make it any less of a pain for developers to make apps for the BB platform. A lack of strong marketing isn't the only thing holding BB back and a presence of it isn't the only thing keeping Apple ahead.
    That is a good point and we have both good and possibly bad news. QNX.

    Once QNX-phones hit (early 2012 if we believe what was said so far), the development of apps should become a lot smoother and the long time problem devs had with the many families of phones should be vanquised as they build for QNX and not for the 97xx/9650 on OS6 and then for the Storm1, then port for the Storm2 and so on.

    The problem is that it will be one more platform to develop for. We know QNX will get both java and android players, but I doubt they will ever be as good as a natively built app. What if the handhelds get the players as well? That would pretty much solve the lack of applications. As to how well would things be, how smooth the experience... We can only wonder.

    So, if people are already into java, they can keep on with it. If they wanna play the QNX game, even better. If not, they can always go Android and then they will have, in fact, two apps for the effort of one.
    Last edited by diegonei; 07-20-11 at 12:36 PM.
    07-20-11 12:31 PM
  15. PlaybookPlayboy's Avatar
    if the analysts had a clue they wouldn't have blown the Apple revenue forecasts so badly.

    they have no clue about Apple, nor RIM.
    07-21-11 07:39 PM
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