04-23-12 02:02 PM
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  1. guerllamo7's Avatar
    So we first heard about Apple and Google tracking user locations without permission in 2010.

    Then about security threats about apps making other apps go bad.

    Then CarrierIQ.

    Now this.
    Mobile Apps Take Data Without Permission - NYTimes.com

    Is there a pattern here?

    I love my BB and there are several reasons for that. I love the keyboard, the security, the new UI rocks and I love all the recent improvement on OS7. BB Traffic, BBM Music, etc. but I also like that BlackBerry seems to consistently take my privacy more seriously than the competition. Just a good ethical company and no component manufacturers for RIM are committing mass suicides either.

    BB did not track my location without asking permission first.

    BB has removed apps that wanted to take or use info without permission.

    BB never installed carrierIQ or allowed carrier partners to do so. Only T-Mobile had it and they worked that out with the user.

    BB is doing a great job protecting my privacy and security.

    I'm not saying BB is perfect but it sure seems they make the best effort to protect our security and not sell us out to marketers without our permission.

    Just another reason why I am still the happy owner of the most secure, best real time e-mail and messaging smart phone in the world.

    Go RIM!!
    02-15-12 11:53 AM
  2. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    02-15-12 11:56 AM
  3. Economist101's Avatar
    Just a good ethical company and no component manufacturers for RIM are committing mass suicides either.
    Ethical company, huh? You should probably look into RIM's history before you make that kind of declaration.

    Balsille resigns as Chairman; RIM to restate earnings

    In other words, RIM is just like every other corporation.

    As for "mass suicides" (generally defined as multiple deaths that run roughly concurrently, as in Jonestown or the Heaven's Gate cult), I'm not sure of any manufacturer with those. Some manufacturers may have suicides among their employees as Foxconn does, but since Foxconn's suicide rate is lower than mainland China I'm not sure what the problem is.
    Last edited by Economist101; 02-15-12 at 12:20 PM.
    02-15-12 12:18 PM
  4. i7guy's Avatar
    Is that the best you can do? Enron it's not.

    As for the suicides, at least the post office does not have fencing on the roof.
    02-15-12 12:30 PM
  5. BlendIcier's Avatar
    Bingo, issues of user device ownership and their right to privacy is why other than liking an underdog I hope to see RIM pull off a smooth BB10 launch

    Even if it all ends up the same, I give a damn about a sense of propriety

    speculation: what companies have not been hassled like RIM has to reveal user information, without warrants, and when did they get marketshare in the countries where RIM is getting hassled (other than Nokia which had a side-business of selling wholesale telecom spy equipment anyways)
    Last edited by BlendIcier; 02-15-12 at 12:38 PM.
    02-15-12 12:34 PM
  6. CrackedBarry's Avatar
    As for "mass suicides" (generally defined as multiple deaths that run roughly concurrently, as in Jonestown or the Heaven's Gate cult), I'm not sure of any manufacturer with those. Some manufacturers may have suicides among their employees as Foxconn does, but since Foxconn's suicide rate is lower than mainland China I'm not sure what the problem is.
    And lets not forget, that the conditions at Foxconn are better than at most other factories, according to the Fair Labor Association: Fair Labor Association: Foxconn's plant conditions are better than most

    Wonder how the conditions at RIMs factories in Indonesia compare? Or at Quantas factories that build the Playbooks? Or at the Chinese factories that produce the components for RIMs phones, which are then assembled in Mexico, Hungary and Canada?

    Actually, let's drop the hypocrisy, shall we? Nobody here really gives a dang about how many Chinese workers commit suicide. It's only brought up whenever it can be used to criticize and humiliate the competition (in this case Apple), and make grandstanding and ridiculous statements about wiping the blood of an iPhone before using it.

    (As if a Bold 9900 is build of rainbows and children's smiles and runs on dreams of a better tomorrow!)

    Prove me wrong... Workers rights is a good and worthy cause, so let's get to work, shall we? At least we KNOW Apples supply chain, information that they have voluntarily released, and we know that they're working with the FLA to improve conditions.

    Let's all fire off some emails to RIM, and demand that they also release a list of suppliers and manufacturers. How are the conditions at the plants that built components for RIM, before they are assembled in RIMs plants? Surely our friends in Waterloo has nothing to hide, and will gladly share this information with us.

    And since labor rights is such a big issue here on the forum, that its being brought up almost daily, I can imagine that the first dozen crackbarryers have already opened up their email client, no? Come on! Let's put that Playbook and Bridge connection to some good use!
    02-15-12 12:35 PM
  7. kbz1960's Avatar
    Why stop there? Why not not every company in the world along with every government? None of them will lie or hide anything, right?
    afdfirefighter77 likes this.
    02-15-12 12:51 PM
  8. BBPandy's Avatar
    I would be very carefull when taking the opinion of an organizations that was created by Nike, Nestle & 2 other fasion companies after they got in big trouble for their child labour working conditions.

    That organization basically a collection of some of the worst international companies in the world. It was created as a way to counter bad PR for working condtions in the factories making their products.

    (btw they now have something like 20 associated companies)
    02-15-12 05:05 PM
  9. jr4941's Avatar
    I'm sorry, but stealing a user's contact info, tracking a person, etc. is just plain wrong. We know it's not isolated to one event and I am sure there are other things that apple is doing. It's only a matter of time before they started being investigated for their behaviour. Facebook had the same issues about how they shared info with third-party apps - I'm sure Apple will get into the same trouble.
    02-16-12 09:55 AM
  10. Rickroller's Avatar
    Companies that make many of the most popular smartphone apps for Apple and Android devices — Twitter, Foursquare and Instagram among them — routinely gather the information in personal address books on the phone and in some cases store it on their own computers.
    Maybe people can contact these guys when they accidently wipe or lose their contacts in order to get them back

    But seriously..so what if they have your contact list? Has anyone ever heard of anyone getting a random phone call..or a random text message from someone because of these lists? (Excluding JaredCo of course..that's the only one i've ever heard experiences from)

    And to the OP..your contact list may be safe..but if things are as rampant as is being made out..I can pretty much guarantee that someone, somewhere has your contact info stored..unless every single person you know has a BB. Have you received any unwarranted emails, texts, calls etc? Probably not..so again I ask..what's the big deal?
    avt123 likes this.
    02-16-12 10:20 AM
  11. buwee's Avatar
    Maybe people can contact these guys when they accidently wipe or lose their contacts in order to get them back

    But seriously..so what if they have your contact list? Has anyone ever heard of anyone getting a random phone call..or a random text message from someone because of these lists? (Excluding JaredCo of course..that's the only one i've ever heard experiences from)

    And to the OP..your contact list may be safe..but if things are as rampant as is being made out..I can pretty much guarantee that someone, somewhere has your contact info stored..unless every single person you know has a BB. Have you received any unwarranted emails, texts, calls etc? Probably not..so again I ask..what's the big deal?
    Maybe it's not a big deal to you but IT IS a big deal to me so I guess I'll just have to remove all the contacts from my Jesus Phone
    02-17-12 01:06 AM
  12. Rickroller's Avatar
    Maybe it's not a big deal to you but IT IS a big deal to me so I guess I'll just have to remove all the contacts from my Jesus Phone
    That's a start I guess. You're also going to have to make sure you call ANYONE who has you in their contact list who doesn't own a BB, and ask them to delete you, otherwise YOUR info is "out there" for the taking.

    And from now on..i'm guessing all Blackberry owners concerned about having their info out there will have to start screening who they give their phone number to.

    Aunt Maybel: I just got a new iPhone!

    BB Owner: I'm sorry Auntie..you're going to have to delete me from your Contacts, and will no longer be able to get a hold of me except by land line.

    Aunt Maybel: What?! Why?!

    BB Owner: I don't trust my number in anyone's phone, as Google or Apple might use it and try to sell me something. Dont' worry though..it's not just you. I've been asking ALL my friends and family who don't have BB's to remove me from their contacts too. I've also decided to not use FB anymore, as I don't trust it either. I just can't have my info "out there", as someone may try to use it maliciously or store it without my permission.

    Aunt Maybel: Ok... Have you been taking your medication?
    02-17-12 07:47 AM
  13. Dapper37's Avatar
    Some of the stongest minded folk here of CB are so willing to bend over, if its for apple or google.
    maddie1128 likes this.
    02-17-12 07:54 AM
  14. Rickroller's Avatar
    Some of the stongest minded folk here of CB are so willing to bend over, if its for apple or google.
    It's no different than those who put up with sh*t and abuse from RIM just for a physical KB..
    02-17-12 08:04 AM
  15. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Sorry, but I do not want my contact information, or any information released. If I did not opt into it I do not want it done.

    As far as the whole China debate....what documented instances are there of suicides at RIM manufacturing facilities? Because if there are none, such speculation is simply an attempt at deflect blame and attention away from the documented suicides at Foxconn.

    As far as labour practices....let's face it, we have no way to guarantee nor can we institute our will in factories overseas. We cannot enforce our labour laws in any country anywhere. In order to be able to go buy cheap articles at Walmart, there is a price to be paid and generally the price is deplorable working conditions abroad.

    Let's both sides get off the blame game and realise that mass production has always been at the blood, sweat and tears of those who provide that labour. There are specific, small companies who do not engage in this kind of commerce....but they are few and far between and not found at Walmart or Target or K-Mart. I am *not* advocating for labour atrocities, but both sides need to stop both laying blame for Foxconn on one side and deflecting the truth by blaming RIM when it's Apple's practices that are being scrutinised. Fix Apple, then fix whatever actual, documented deficiencies there are everywhere. And good luck with that. You will win several Nobel prizes when you do.
    02-17-12 08:26 AM
  16. Rickroller's Avatar
    Sorry, but I do not want my contact information, or any information released. If I did not opt into it I do not want it done.
    My point is...if ANYONE has YOUR contact info and doesnt own a BB..then your info has already potentially been released. You've used a multitude of phones, both iPhone and Android..did you never once put any contact info in? Do you not know anyone in your contacts, that has you in their contacts, that doesn't own a BB? If so..it's "out there"..
    02-17-12 08:32 AM
  17. qbnkelt's Avatar
    My point is...if ANYONE has YOUR contact info and doesnt own a BB..then your info has already potentially been released. You've used a multitude of phones, both iPhone and Android..did you never once put any contact info in? Do you not know anyone in your contacts, that has you in their contacts, that doesn't own a BB? If so..it's "out there"..
    I've used every platform except for Symbian.

    My point is that the fact that it is/has happened does not negate the fact that it *should not* happen. Of course I've put my contact info in phones other than BB, of course my contacts use something other than BB. The information should still not be made available unless a user opts into it. I want to control what information I opt into. Releasing information without consent is a serious violation of my privacy.
    I know it's happened. That does not mean that consumers should turn a blind eye and give tacit approval simply because it's happened.
    buwee and maddie1128 like this.
    02-17-12 08:49 AM
  18. i7guy's Avatar
    And lets not forget, that the conditions at Foxconn are better than at most other factories, according to the Fair Labor Association: Fair Labor Association: Foxconn's plant conditions are better than most

    Wonder how the conditions at RIMs factories in Indonesia compare? Or at Quantas factories that build the Playbooks? Or at the Chinese factories that produce the components for RIMs phones, which are then assembled in Mexico, Hungary and Canada?

    Actually, let's drop the hypocrisy, shall we? Nobody here really gives a dang about how many Chinese workers commit suicide. It's only brought up whenever it can be used to criticize and humiliate the competition (in this case Apple), and make grandstanding and ridiculous statements about wiping the blood of an iPhone before using it.

    (As if a Bold 9900 is build of rainbows and children's smiles and runs on dreams of a better tomorrow!)

    Prove me wrong... Workers rights is a good and worthy cause, so let's get to work, shall we? At least we KNOW Apples supply chain, information that they have voluntarily released, and we know that they're working with the FLA to improve conditions.

    Let's all fire off some emails to RIM, and demand that they also release a list of suppliers and manufacturers. How are the conditions at the plants that built components for RIM, before they are assembled in RIMs plants? Surely our friends in Waterloo has nothing to hide, and will gladly share this information with us.

    And since labor rights is such a big issue here on the forum, that its being brought up almost daily, I can imagine that the first dozen crackbarryers have already opened up their email client, no? Come on! Let's put that Playbook and Bridge connection to some good use!
    nothing like guilty until proven innocent.
    02-17-12 09:15 AM
  19. Rickroller's Avatar
    I've used every platform except for Symbian.

    My point is that the fact that it is/has happened does not negate the fact that it *should not* happen. Of course I've put my contact info in phones other than BB, of course my contacts use something other than BB. The information should still not be made available unless a user opts into it. I want to control what information I opt into. Releasing information without consent is a serious violation of my privacy.
    I know it's happened. That does not mean that consumers should turn a blind eye and give tacit approval simply because it's happened.
    I completely agree that it *should not* happen..but my point is, BB users who tout security, and think their info is completely safe, are negating the fact that any other user who has his/her info stored on their non-BB phone, aren't as secure as they think they are.

    I guess my point is, unless you the user are keeping a strict lock down on who has your info in their phone...then it's pointless to say "well I have a BB..my info is secure"..when in fact it isn't..simply because you've given it out to someone's who phone may/may not be secure.

    EDIT: Of course, i'm only referring to phone number, email address, as info that could possibly "be out there" from another user. Anything else stored on a personal BB such as CC info, passwords etc would still be secure.
    02-17-12 09:17 AM
  20. i7guy's Avatar
    I completely agree that it *should not* happen..but my point is, BB users who tout security, and think their info is completely safe, are negating the fact that any other user who has his/her info stored on their non-BB phone, aren't as secure as they think they are.

    I guess my point is, unless you the user are keeping a strict lock down on who has your info in their phone...then it's pointless to say "well I have a BB..my info is secure"..when in fact it isn't..simply because you've given it out to someone's who phone may/may not be secure.

    EDIT: Of course, i'm only referring to phone number, email address, as info that could possibly "be out there" from another user. Anything else stored on a personal BB such as CC info, passwords etc would still be secure.
    This is not a bb issue. If you tell someone your email address and it's overheard by a evil thirdd party, you are compromised. You can never guard from apps who promise not to misuse your personal information and then go ahead and do just that.

    MY POINT IS: on the whole BBs have been less compromised by drive by hackings, security flaws, etc. It does happen and is remediated. You can't control what happens to your info in the wild, and sometimes you can't even control it on your phone...but by and large BBs have not really been hacked, not to the same extent as Android or IOS.
    Rickroller likes this.
    02-17-12 09:27 AM
  21. T
    As a BlackBerry user, I can choose whether or not to allow companies to have my contact list. (I choose not to let them have it.) I can't control what other platforms' users do or even what other BlackBerry users do. I can only control what I do. And that's why BlackBerry security is still best. I can decide for myself.
    02-17-12 09:46 AM
  22. buwee's Avatar
    I completely agree that it *should not* happen..but my point is, BB users who tout security, and think their info is completely safe, are negating the fact that any other user who has his/her info stored on their non-BB phone, aren't as secure as they think they are.

    I guess my point is, unless you the user are keeping a strict lock down on who has your info in their phone...then it's pointless to say "well I have a BB..my info is secure"..when in fact it isn't..simply because you've given it out to someone's who phone may/may not be secure.

    EDIT: Of course, i'm only referring to phone number, email address, as info that could possibly "be out there" from another user. Anything else stored on a personal BB such as CC info, passwords etc would still be secure.
    Lets be clear about this - it is NOT my info but rather my client's info that I am obligated to protect. My clients would not appreciate having their info spread around to anyone that wants it so it is NOT aunt Maybel that I'm worried about - in fact I couldn't give a rat's a** about aunt Maybel.
    02-17-12 10:29 PM
  23. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    I say if it bothers you, stay with a platform that makes you feel safe.

    I do believe that there is a reason why RIM itself does not tout security as a feature, but I have been wrong before.

    RIM collects info too, but ignorance is bliss, and I do believe users should determine who collects theirs.
    02-17-12 10:51 PM
  24. Rickroller's Avatar
    Lets be clear about this - it is NOT my info but rather my client's info that I am obligated to protect. My clients would not appreciate having their info spread around to anyone that wants it so it is NOT aunt Maybel that I'm worried about - in fact I couldn't give a rat's a** about aunt Maybel.
    That's perfectly understandable. If I dealt with clients and personal information on my phone, then I too would be more cautious with what happens with it. Hopefully your clients are just as cautious, and aren't using other platforms themselves.
    02-18-12 09:26 AM
  25. T
    ... RIM collects info too, but ignorance is bliss ...
    RIM's entire business model isn't built around the gathering and usage of BIS users' personal information.
    02-18-12 11:16 AM
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