[darkehawke]

Respectfully,

Past is done with ie.

1) Thor cleaned house, new upper management

2) Thor increased cash position and cut fat, when media pundits said otherwise over and over

3) Thor and Team Blackberry are read to drop a whole NEW O/S Jan 30 2013 , well ahead of other older O/S's out there

4) Dev's are excited

5) Carriers are excited

6) Many consumers are excited

That and so much more makes their "position" very very good indeed, going forward of course.

i understand all this, but just as respectfully

blackberry 10 has not succeeded yet.

and everything you have stated is not proof that the past mistakes have been learnt.

people were excited about windows phone 8 too as were carriers.
excitement does not equal success.
blackberry have it all to do.

This right now, is all pre game. the match still has to be played

[TomJasper]

i understand all this, but just as respectfully

blackberry 10 has not succeeded yet.

Respectfully,

Blackberry 10 is not to market yet but what it has shown to market so far it has succeeded in:

1) Changing the mindset of previous consumers who poo pooed Blackberry, as is evident via social media

2) Changed the mindset of some analyst who previously wrote off RIM

3) Changed the mindset of some tech writers who previously had an unfavourable opinion

4) Changed the mindsets of dev's who previously didn't give RIM a second look

...... and more!

That's pretty darn good success prior to market.

Can't wait for the marketing $$$$$$ to tie this all in! WOOT WOOT

[CairnsRock]

Newbie to CB doesn't mean newbie to Blackberry
I'm a newbie, but I have two BB devices and I didn't buy them the last week. The truth is I should have changed my phone last spring, but I wasn't critical about Rim's statements about the Fall and I've been patiently waiting for the new phones under bb10 (which is rather nice to start). Then I found out the delays and I still made the choice to wait, which is even more nice, because I still pay money to Rim, maintain their subscribers base that provide them cash, and I didn't pay my money to the concurrent like others did in my case.
Well, now I just don't get why I shouldn't be able to say it, because it is supposed to be "yesterday" (it is still my every day).

With you on that one. A lot of us are newbs on other forums.

[CairnsRock]

Crackberry Kevin,

I look forward to your future posts/articles (as per your most recent podcast) in regards to cracking down on the numerous negative ill informed
articles/tech writers floating around out there, cracks some whips, I'm 110% behind you as I'm sure many others are!

BB10 just around the corner, WOOT WOOT, so excited RIM under Thor is doing so many positive things!

Suck.

[belfastdispatcher]

[QUOTE=darkehawke;7826684]but the past affects RIM now. Look at the situation they are in. desperately fighting for 3rd place and survival./QUOTE]

This is one of those unnecessary and quite wrong (as of right now) comments, RIM is already in 3rd place, loud and clear. In the future that might change but as of right now RIM is not fighting anybody for third place.

[TomJasper]

Suck.

I always look forward to your posts, you lost me on this one though.

[Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes]

100% agree with Belfastdispatcher. RIM is not "fighting" for third place. They just have to keep it. Its not even a bitter battle, despite the steep decline in blackberry sales. On the Mobile Nations 20 podcast even most of the EiC's have an incorrect perception about this. They were harassing Kevin about blackberry and third place as if it was neck and neck???

RIDICULOUS!

[qbnkelt]

Benjamin Disraeli once famously stated that there are lies, damned lies, and then there are statistics.
When it comes to smartphones, people compare the minutae surrounding sales/marketshare/sellthrough...and often raw numbers are tortured into the desired format to make a desired point. Figures are quite innocuous in themselves....it's what's done with them that causes all the trouble.
It would be quite naive to believe that there isn't within the smartphone wars a desperate fight for each spot. Samsung/Android and Apple virtually own the market. If anyone believes that the remaining big names are not figuratively elbowing and ramming each other in a desperate horse race, then that person needs to rethink that conclusion.With a loss of a million subscribers in the last quarter, I would not imagine that anyone in the RIM boardroom is sitting back with a stereotypical cigar and a cognac thinking how wonderful things are. The austerity measures of the last year are a testament to the fact that there is in fact quite a fight.
And if they are not hungry and fighting for third place, for keeping it, then they have not learned a thing. So they had best be fighting for that third spot.

[magutwit]

but the past affects RIM now. Look at the situation they are in. desperately fighting for 3rd place and survival.

If the past EVER belongs to the past, which is not that clear to me. I brought here an issue about Ukrainian input in BB devices (its absence), that's in my history.

Now think over that :
a) there are already several Cyrillic inputs in BB, one has to change 5 signs to the existing Russian one (or any other Cyrrilic one) to provide the virtual Ukrainian input. How much time do you think it takes?
b) there are like 47 mln of Ukrainian speakers worldwide and the Ukrainian market of smartphones is growing by 98% per year. All of that goes almost exlusively to Apple or Samsung (because they are Apple and Samsung and because they do have the Ukrainian input).

Now if the management was efficient, if there was a real communication between lower and upper employees and the top management, the guys from the buttom would pass their messages and the guy on the middle would listen, think and pass his massage so that the guy on the top would say : "Oh dear, it won't cost us a penny, it can be done within hours and that can make gain us extra-money and sell extra-phones".

Why do I say that it's a management problem? Follow my points :
1) The BB Ukraine page is in Ukrainian, which means that somebody took the decision to make it in Ukrainian and this person hired and paid another person who'd translate the page into Ukrainian. These persons are paid by Rim
2) At the same time a third person would convince the decision-maker that it's ok to provide the Russian input only. I say a third person because this same person wouldn't stress the idea that the internet page should be translated into Ukrainian, the logic is clear. This person is also paid by Rim.
3) The top-management pays different people to implement contradictional decisions and don't even bother to ask themselves what do the concurrents do and why (like why does Apple do it?).
4) Posts from different people have been posted on the official BB support forum since a couple of years and those who are supposed to react on it (find out the problems, report them if needed = provide the efficient feedback), either don't do it, or nobody hears them. And these persons are paid as well.
See how many people are paid for something that doesn't work and prevents Rim from gaining more money and selling more phones?

Where do we go? --> lousy, contradictional management where you'd pay people who all go to all directions at once and don't hear each other.

As far as I remember, the inefficient management was the main reason why the wrong decisions were taken, all of which brought Rim to a certain decline, right? Now what we can see on the surface is reassuring : the new OS and new devices seem to be well-done and going into the right direction, Thor Heins gives a very good image and I confess I like his style very much, I'd say he's capable of being a new Steve Jobs. The 30th of Jan will tell us more on this.
What we can't see, the internal management, still stays more important to say if the past really belongs to the past. The management problems being the root of evil, the change must occur in the management so that Rim can really change.
I hope my example gave you a little idea about the doubts I have on this second subject (whether the management really changed).

P.S. I have no intention to flame with my personal issue, I only wanted to argument my point of view on the subject that is being discussed in the thread and I found out that it can serve as a rather speaking illustration. Sometimes a small problem can show off the dysfonction of the whole system better than the exhaustvie analysis of all existing statistic numbers.

[Ratchet clank]

[QUOTE=belfastdispatcher;7826851]

but the past affects RIM now. Look at the situation they are in. desperately fighting for 3rd place and survival./QUOTE]

This is one of those unnecessary and quite wrong (as of right now) comments, RIM is already in 3rd place, loud and clear. In the future that might change but as of right now RIM is not fighting anybody for third place.

Pretty sure using actual math they are not in 3rd place.

[TomJasper]

Through perseverance many people win success out of what seemed destined to be certain failure by some media pundits and analysts - Benjamin Disraeli feat Tom Jasper (RIP Disraeli 1881/ TJ 2013)

[TomJasper]

Sometimes a small problem can show off the dysfonction of the whole system better than the exhaustvie analysis of all existing statistic numbers.

Apple maps and Droid malware comes to mind.

[magutwit]

Apple maps

AppleMaps is not a small problem, it was a huge problem .

But the fact is that there is no evidence to state firmly that in the Rim's case the past is the past. General supportive exclamations are not arguments, they are wishful thinking .

[Joy1980]

The launch is a new beginning, not a clean slate. Nothing they have done will erase what they have done to themselves. It has been very well documented, if they don't know it by now, there is nothing that can be done for them. The real question is will you give them a chance to redeem themselves or will you write them off anyway? I am willing to give them a chance, it is that simple.

[belfastdispatcher]

[QUOTE=Ratchet clank;7827029]

Pretty sure using actual math they are not in 3rd place.

Who is then?

[qbnkelt]

The launch is a new beginning, not a clean slate. Nothing they have done will erase what they have done to themselves. It has been very well documented, if they don't know it by now, there is nothing that can be done for them. The real question is will you give them a chance to redeem themselves or will you write them off anyway? I am willing to give them a chance, it is that simple.

I will definitely be buying a Z10.
*If* the X10 shows up with a curved keyboard after all, I will buy one.
I will be buying a spare 9900 in case something happens to my current one.
*If* a white 9900 shows up at AT&T I will be buying one.

As a consumer, I speak with my wallet.

[collinc93]

Benjamin Disraeli once famously stated that there are lies, damned lies, and then there are statistics.
When it comes to smartphones, people compare the minutae surrounding sales/marketshare/sellthrough...and often raw numbers are tortured into the desired format to make a desired point. Figures are quite innocuous in themselves....it's what's done with them that causes all the trouble.
It would be quite naive to believe that there isn't within the smartphone wars a desperate fight for each spot. Samsung/Android and Apple virtually own the market which means US/North American market]. If anyone believes that the remaining big names are not figuratively elbowing and ramming each other in a desperate horse race, then that person needs to rethink that conclusion.With a loss of a million subscribers in the last quarter, I would not imagine that anyone in the RIM boardroom is sitting back with a stereotypical cigar and a cognac thinking how wonderful things are. The austerity measures of the last year are a testament to the fact that there is in fact quite a fight.
And if they are not hungry and fighting for third place, for keeping it, then they have not learned a thing. So they had best be fighting for that third spot.

Fix that for ya

[TomJasper]

To me, wishful thinking is that no fortune 500 company has any small quirks,they do, yet they thrive.
Quirks are an inherent part of ANY business, otherwise we would all live in a perfect world, have perfect consumer products and hair.

AppleMaps is not a small problem, it was a huge problem .
General supportive exclamations are not arguments, they are wishful thinking .

[qbnkelt]

Fix that for ya just in case you thought the US/North America was the world

Thank you. I appreciate it.

Being Cuban Irish double Celt of Basque descent educated in Ireland and Madrid, Spain and migrated to the United States, I am aware of what encompases "the world."

[magutwit]

To me, wishful thinking is that no fortune 500 company has any small quirks,they do, yet they thrive.
Quirks are an inherent part of ANY business, otherwise we would all live in a perfect world, have perfect consumer products and hair.

Then one can answer like this to ANY visible problem And that's apparently what Rim did from 2008 to 2011

Tom, I wish them to succed as much as you do (well, maybe a bit less since you're particularly passionate about it), but I just try to see everything, not only what I want to see.

[TomJasper]

It has been very well documented ...

Yes, it has.

[TomJasper]

Tom, I wish them to succed as much as you do ....

Great, here is too enjoying Jan 30 2013 together.

[Toodeurep]

Sorry to interrupt but…

But what happened in the past did not affect everybody, for some of us a BlackBerry is still the best smartphone and has never "fallen behind" so how should I view all the people that tell me constantly that RIM has fallen behind? They are right to a certain extent but from my point of view and from my use a BB is still the best. Show me a better qwerty smartphone better then the.

^^^I this post.

That's almost like asking to be shown the best VHS player in the world.... Sure some people still use it, perhaps some even demand it, but it's not the dominant format right now. Sorry, but the world has moved on. To deny that it has, is to deny reality

I agree here but my 9810 isn’t a VHS player. I can operate/interact with my smartphone of choice with voice, touch, optical trackpad and physical keyboard all in one, landscape or portrait. Not many like it in the world.

I always look forward to your posts, you lost me on this one though.

I think a three letter word was removed. Maybe “suck up” would help you out.

As you were, quoting poetry, disagreeing and all that. You are all awesome in my book!

[TomJasper]

As you were, quoting poetry, disagreeing and all that. You are all awesome in my book!

As are you.

[howarmat]

Alright enough fun. On to better things