[keepthetorch]

It's far more likely that they're hoping to get the remaining BIS customers off the network so they can shut down BIS support and not have to keep supporting it and paying BB fees for it.

They couldn't care less about BB10 being on their network, because it's just like any other phone. BBOS is NOT, and incurs specific costs for T-Mo.

You are probably right. What scares me is the other carries supporting BIS now might follow suit as well so BB will have to rely on OS7 customers migrating to OS10 and new users? Based on the BB user base and OS phones the majority use, it doesn't look real promising - IMHO.

[propeller10]

BB should've partnered up with the T-Mobile to promote BB10 here in USA. Now hear me out. T-Mobile wants to do things differently with the whole uncarrier move and Blackberry wants to bring a different experience to consumers. If I was John Chen I would've sat down with the T-Mobile CEO to come up with a plan that ensures massive success for both parties by working together instead of fighting with him. Both T-Mobile and Blackberry are underdogs in their respective businesses. I feel like John Legere could've been a valuable partner for blackberry.

[NG888]

Could be subsidized by Samsung.

Posted via CB10

[Jerale]

It's far more likely that they're hoping to get the remaining BIS customers off the network so they can shut down BIS support and not have to keep supporting it and paying BB fees for it.

They couldn't care less about BB10 being on their network, because it's just like any other phone. BBOS is NOT, and incurs specific costs for T-Mo.

That makes perfect sense.

Powered by my BlackBerry (Z10). Join my #BBM Channels C001227CF, C00476C37, C003829C9, C002454C9,C002190AC, C00120CE3

[raino]

If anyone's wondering how to stick it to TMO, putting a BIS plan on your line, preferably with BBOS devices would do it. If a BB10 device or another is the daily driver, keeping the BIS plan and switching devices (transferring SIMs) every once in a while would probably work as well.

[DenverRalphy]

I read a stat in another thread that there are only 45000 active BB's on TMO's network. Assuming this is true than whatever they are paying BB for BIS is a drop in the bucket. I share the other posters sentiment and wonder why TMO is wasting their time.

At $5 a pop each month for every BIS user, that could easily be over $2million per year. Regardless how much money T-Mo makes, that's a significant amount that shouldn't be ignored for any company that can shave it off their costs when paying it is no longer is in their best interests.

[raino]

At $5 a pop each month for every BIS user, that could easily be over $2million per year. Regardless how much money T-Mo makes, that's a significant amount that shouldn't be ignored for any company that can shave it off their costs when paying it is no longer is in their best interests.

$2-3 million is peanuts, relatively speaking. Assuming 30,000 BB devices were traded in during the first round of BB trade-ins, at $200 a pop, that's a $6 million hit TMO took right there.

[keepthetorch]

I have a few questions based on BB's market share and user base:
1) What is keeping the carriers from dropping BIS entirely?
2) How many of the legacy owners will upgrade to a OS10?
3) How many carriers support OS10? USCell does not as far as I know.
3) How many legacy owners will switch to another OS (WP, Android or iphone)?

The carriers don't make much money on the devices but on the contracts (correct me if I am wrong). I can see the enticements from the carriers saying to me for instance. "Sorry that we cannot support your Torch any more but pick any other phone in the store and it will cost you $0 but no more than $50 on a 2 year contract. In fact we might throw in another phone at no extra charge and put them both on a common data plan."

With that said - if say 30-40% of the legacy users change to another platform and the rest upgrade to OS10 (if their carrier supports it), where does that leave BB? I love BB and my phone but this scenario cannot be overlooked. Business is business and 1% is not going to force carriers much. I do not want to switch but may be forced to. For me, I would switch to VZW and a Z. Problem is under this scenario, it would be hard for BB to survive (especially in the handset business) on the lower volume of legacy users and BIS fees. I don't have a crystal ball and hope that I am wrong.

[DenverRalphy]

$2-3 million is peanuts, relatively speaking. Assuming 30,000 BB devices were traded in during the first round of BB trade-ins, at $200 a pop, that's a $6 million hit TMO took right there.

True. But long term, the benefits sways in T-Mo's favor. Giving each customer a $200 discount to change, less the $60 annual payout for BIS, T-Mo is only out $140. Which is made back in just over 2 years time. Then it's all profit. And with this new promo, and Samsung footing half the bill for the trade in discount, T-Mo is only on the hook for $100, less the $60, which leaves a $40 net cost for T-Mo, which is made up in under one year.

[alternator77]

I'm thinking this is just samsung realizing what we've been hearing for a while now. The smartphone market is slowing down. People are more and more content what what they have and aren't jumping on the annual upgrade. They're also advertising a buy one get one free on the sgs5 on other carriers.

Posted via CB10

[Omnitech]

I hope the perennial T-Mobile apologists will finally acknowledge now that Legere's claim of "loving their Blackberry users" was always a big lie.

My only question is how much longer can they keep buying business before it catches up with them?

It already caught-up with them. T-Mobile is in the red and has started raising prices on certain services to try to stem their losses.

[Omnitech]

1) What is keeping the carriers from dropping BIS entirely?
2) How many of the legacy owners will upgrade to a OS10?
3) How many carriers support OS10? USCell does not as far as I know.
3) How many legacy owners will switch to another OS (WP, Android or iphone)?

1. Supporting existing users and businesses that still rely on it
2. No one can answer that. Make a compelling product and make the world aware of it and people will buy it.
3. Depends on what you mean by "support". US Cellular is a bit player. Just activating a phone on some network is not a big deal as long as the carrier's spectrum is supported. Otherwise unlocked devices would be pointless.
4. No one can answer that either. Go to #2.

[sigint99]

Legere is a **** who doesn't give a rats behind about customers. They are just a means to an end for him.

[Troy Tiscareno]

Legere is a **** who doesn't give a rats behind about customers. They are just a means to an end for him.

And of course, you can't say the exact same thing about BlackBerry, or any other international company, right?

Does anyone here really think BB cares about you, individually? How could they. How could any company of that size? All they can do is create policies that their customers find favorable.

Or is T-Mobile a bad company because they are in business to make a profit? Heaven forbid! That's no way to run a business!

[tchocky77]

I read a stat in another thread that there are only 45000 active BB's on TMO's network. Assuming this is true than whatever they are paying BB for BIS is a drop in the bucket. I share the other posters sentiment and wonder why TMO is wasting their time.

Why would they pay a single cent they don't have to.

Common sense man. They want rid of the BIS fees. So do all the other carriers.

[bmantz65]

I think the other carriers are watching this situation very closely because now a precedent has been set. Once that happens, it can turn to a question of "when" and not "if".

Posted via CB10

[vrud]

And of course, you can't say the exact same thing about BlackBerry, or any other international company, right?

Does anyone here really think BB cares about you, individually? How could they. How could any company of that size? All they can do is create policies that their customers find favorable.

Or is T-Mobile a bad company because they are in business to make a profit? Heaven forbid! That's no way to run a business!

Not sure who cares about whom but BlackBerry is going to release BB7 smartphone for its loyal customers but tmo is going against theirs by limiting the variety. Yes, both companies follow their business strategy but from customer perspective Mr Chen is listening more.

Posted via CB10

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

And of course, you can't say the exact same thing about BlackBerry, or any other international company, right?

Does anyone here really think BB cares about you, individually? How could they. How could any company of that size? All they can do is create policies that their customers find favorable.

Or is T-Mobile a bad company because they are in business to make a profit? Heaven forbid! That's no way to run a business!

Of course BlackBerry cares about me. When they figured out that the STORM didn't have enough memory and EOL it after only eight months and released the STORM2 to replace it the took care of me by.... well I'm sure they felt bad about it.

And when they decided to give me a PROMISED update to my PlayBook they offered to.... well

And when developers never came to the BB10 platform that they had listed on their board of coming apps....

Ok, BlackBerry could care less about me as an individual.

[Omnitech]

And of course, you can't say the exact same thing about BlackBerry, or any other international company, right?

I expected better from you, Troy.

It's pretty ridiculous to excuse the behaviour of one single company by attempting to claim that all international companies are managed exactly the same way.

I mean, think about that for a second. That's just a patently ridiculous claim.

OF COURSE there are companies which are more ethically managed than others. OF COURSE there are some companies more inclined to push lies at the public and some that do not.

WAKE UP, Troy.... I think you're in some kind of mental suspended-animation.

Of course BlackBerry cares about me. When they figured out that the STORM didn't have enough memory and EOL it after only eight months and released the STORM2 to replace it the took care of me by.... well I'm sure they felt bad about it.

And when they decided to give me a PROMISED update to my PlayBook they offered to.... well

And when developers never came to the BB10 platform that they had listed on their board of coming apps....

Pretty much everything there with the possible exception of claimed apps are execution issues, not "we don't care about customers" issues.

The fact that a company doesn't produce products you want when you want them that do what you want and how you want them to do it, has no necessary relation to whether the company "cares" about you or not. In general, it has much more to do with whether they are good at what they are trying to do. If you don't think BlackBerry is interested in having more happy customers, you are a fool. OF COURSE they want happy customers, that's how businesses succeed.

On the other hand - blatant intentional lying to the public about known facts including the status of the market and ones business partners and so on - is an entirely different matter.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Pretty much everything there with the possible exception of claimed apps are execution issues, not "we don't care about customers" issues.

When a company that cares about it's customers and IT"S reputation, fails to delivery or "execute" as promised. They tend to go out of their way to at least try and make things right with the consumer.

There is little wonder that BlackBerry's reputation and Brand are in such a sad state today. I said it back when the STORM issue was still going on, that because Verizon put so much into backing STORM as an iPhone competitor it was a HUGE commercial success for BlackBerry. But it was also a HUGE PR failure.... It was a consumer device and it was many peoples first smartphone, and it was also their last BlackBerry!

Sometime it's best to at least acknowledge an error, and make some kind of effort. With the STORM, BlackBerry should have worked with Verizon to offer some kind of discount or early renewal.

PlayBook.... maybe a free BB10 device with the trade-in of your PlayBook. Not everyone would have been willing to do it, but the offer would have gone a long way towards mending fences.

I do think that BlackBerry wants happy customers, but I also think that they have been a very arrogant company that just assumed that every BlackBerry user was one of the hardcore faithful we always hear about. The company "culture" has kept them from being in touch with the true average user. And that is why their business isn't succeeding....

[mnc76]

They are no longer a licensed reseller of BlackBerry phones as of April 25th (since Chen is not renewing the license). So they want to make sure their current BlackBerry-loyalist customers don't leave them for a carrier that IS able to sell them new BlackBerry's.

The only way they can do that is to get these BlackBerry users to switch to a phone that T-Mobile IS allowed to sell.

Posted via CB10

[Troy Tiscareno]

I expected better from you, Troy.

It's pretty ridiculous to excuse the behaviour of one single company by attempting to claim that all international companies are managed exactly the same way.

I mean, think about that for a second. That's just a patently ridiculous claim.

OF COURSE there are companies which are more ethically managed than others. OF COURSE there are some companies more inclined to push lies at the public and some that do not.

WAKE UP, Troy.... I think you're in some kind of mental suspended-animation.

I expected a little better from you, too. Do you really believe that BB cares about you, individually? They sure as hell didn't care much about a number of my customers who were BB users, who came to ME for help with their BB phones because they couldn't get any from BB.

Anyway, the person I responded to was insinuating that Apple, Google, and Microsoft doesn't care about individual users, because they are big companies who make money. My points were these:

BB has among the lowest-rated customer satisfaction in the industry. Even CrackBerry users complain about it, and rightly so. Kind of hard to be throwing stones at other companies, don't you think?

All companies are in business to make profits - that's no crime, and it's not immoral either. Without a potential for profit, none of us would be enjoying smartphones, or computers, or the Internet, or most of the things we have. And not making a profit doesn't somehow make a company angelic and altruistic. I never said "all international companies are managed the same way", but I'm pretty sure they'll all admit to be looking to make a profit.

[tinochiko]

I expected a little better from you, too. Do you really believe that BB cares about you, individually? They sure as hell didn't care much about a number of my customers who were BB users, who came to ME for help with their BB phones because they couldn't get any from BB.

Anyway, the person I responded to was insinuating that Apple, Google, and Microsoft doesn't care about individual users, because they are big companies who make money. My points were these:

BB has among the lowest-rated customer satisfaction in the industry. Even CrackBerry users complain about it, and rightly so. Kind of hard to be throwing stones at other companies, don't you think?

All companies are in business to make profits - that's no crime, and it's not immoral either. Without a potential for profit, none of us would be enjoying smartphones, or computers, or the Internet, or most of the things we have. And not making a profit doesn't somehow make a company angelic and altruistic. I never said "all international companies are managed the same way", but I'm pretty sure they'll all admit to be looking to make a profit.

If you had a delicate tree that grew money, how well would you look after it and care for it?

If this turned into a million trees, and you've got limited manpower, how effectively would you be able to care for each individual tree no matter how much you wanted to?

TechCraze C0008DDD1

[birdman_38]

If you had a delicate tree that grew money, how well would you look after it and care for it?

If this turned into a million trees, and you've got limited manpower, how effectively would you be able to care for each individual tree no matter how much you wanted to?

Apple does it. Have you ever used their customer support? It is excellent.

[tchocky77]

Hear hear as to BlackBerry's "errors of execution."

Just pitiful.