[dillyyo]

I was wondering if someone with a little more inside tech knowledge could expand as to why more of the unique BB10 functionalities i.e. robust gestures, active frames, can not be integrated into an Android based OS? I guess I am wondering more if this is an actual limitation of the Linux based system or something that only the BB10 cascades based system was able to achieve? I'm really hoping that they limited in implementing them so that the Android old timers that would jump ship to BB would not be turned off by the differences. That way there could be hope that BB would implement these features in future phones.

[Al moon]

if an android could run as fluent and eloquent as a bb that would be a home run

[Bluenoser63]

I was wondering if someone with a little more inside tech knowledge could expand as to why more of the unique BB10 functionalities i.e. robust gestures, active frames, can not be integrated into an Android based OS? I guess I am wondering more if this is an actual limitation of the Linux based system or something that only the BB10 cascades based system was able to achieve? I'm really hoping that they limited in implementing them so that the Android old timers that would jump ship to BB would not be turned off by the differences. That way there could be hope that BB would implement these features in future phones.

BlackBerry doesn't control the OS and cannot integrate into the OS at the lowest level. That is it in a nut shell.

[BerrySoul]

That is why the BB10 Os is the best.

  

[Troy Tiscareno]

BlackBerry doesn't control the OS and cannot integrate into the OS at the lowest level. That is it in a nut shell.

In addition to this (which is completely correct), BB is also looking not to satisfy existing BB10 fans (which are too few), but to get non-BB users onto BB phones, and that means presenting them a familiar interface. As I've said a number of times before, BB made a HUGE error in not making the gesture navigation OPTIONAL, and by not having an optional (virtual) Home and Back button. That would have allowed people familiar with iOS or Android to feel much more comfortable moving to BB10, and they could enable gestures (and disable the Home and Back buttons) once they were comfortable - or not at all, if they chose.

There is also a third reason: remaining close to stock Android means that there is less for BB to change and test and certify when a new version of Android is released, which means faster updates. The more they customize, the slower they would be to get updates released to BB users.

[BCITMike]

BlackBerry doesn't control the OS and cannot integrate into the OS at the lowest level. That is it in a nut shell.

Android is open source. They can do whatever they want. I don't know what nutshell you are getting on with. Google Mobile Services (GMS), is the set of services that runs on top of AOSP to deliver the complete Android experience. The only technical issue for BlackBerry is resources (ie, decent quality developers) dedicated to maintaining significant code changes for any proprietary features they wish to add. Sometimes they are easy to add/remove, and other times its tangled integration.

https://source.android.com/source/faqs.html

The Android Open Source Project maintains the Android software, and develops new versions. Since it's open source, this software can be used for any purpose, including to develop devices that are not compatible with other devices based on the same source.

[elhot69]

BB10 need more of main social and game Apps, snapchat, clash of clans, cando crush, and profesional Apps like Lync Client.

And have a sincronization Services like Google Services for this Apps.

Posted via CB10

[Bluenoser63]

Android is open source. They can do whatever they want. I don't know what nutshell you are getting on with. Google Mobile Services (GMS), is the set of services that runs on top of AOSP to deliver the complete Android experience. The only technical issue for BlackBerry is resources (ie, decent quality developers) dedicated to maintaining significant code changes for any proprietary features they wish to add. Sometimes they are easy to add/remove, and other times its tangled integration.

https://source.android.com/source/faqs.html

LOL. Yeah sure. They want to have a Android phone that can't use Google Services and run a lot of apps that depend on that. Then you have the same situation with BB10. They don't control the OS because they want Google. Case closed.

[lactose]

When I go back and forth between Android and BB10, I honestly don't understand how people could prefer the Android style of navigation to BB10 gestures. Gestures seem far superior to me, motion-wise, accuracy-wise, and considering the mechanics of the hand. I understand there are cons to BB10, but navigation-wise, I just scratch my head.

[ubizmo]

When I go back and forth between Android and BB10, I honestly don't understand how people could prefer the Android style of navigation to BB10 gestures.

How many people actually prefer it? The vast majority of people know nothing about BB10 and will never experience it to have a preference against it. Among those "competently acquainted with both", how many prefer Android because it uses fewer gestures than BB10 (it does use some gestures, after all)? I can't give you numbers, but I think most either just don't care--they are happy to use either one--or don't care enough to put up with BB10's ecosystem issues.

[RH1Pearl]

When I go back and forth between Android and BB10, I honestly don't understand how people could prefer the Android style of navigation to BB10 gestures. Gestures seem far superior to me, motion-wise, accuracy-wise, and considering the mechanics of the hand. I understand there are cons to BB10, but navigation-wise, I just scratch my head.

No need to scratch your head as users on the other side also wonder the same thing

[Ment]

Blackberry wants Google Android not open source Android. Google will not allow stock basic navigation out of the box to be gesture based as that would confuse most Google Android users.

Troy makes a good point. In a future version of BB flavored Google Android they should build an a option to enable more BB10 gestures. It appears BB was updating the OS and core apps right up until launch so further customizations may not have been possible within the launch target date.

[jmo712]

BB10 need more of main social and game Apps, snapchat, clash of clans, cando crush, and profesional Apps like Lync Client.

And have a sincronization Services like Google Services for this Apps.

Posted via CB10

That song was sang to death for the past 2 years lol

Created by fingering my sexy Blackberry Classic Keyboard..but I think the  Priv wants me to touch her too!

[dillyyo]

Ok, this was along the lines of what I was thinking. So, I assume since the basics of Android is open source, it's the Google manifestation of Android that does not allow the lowest level of controls? Is there not a way to gain that control through Google's permission or is that not likely due to Google's implemented and desired OS behavior, possibly being compromised by BB?

I have a hard time understanding why Google wouldn't allow BB to implement such characteristics into their android phones, while still preventing them from messing with other low level functionalities that Google feel are necessary?

[dillyyo]

This befuddles me to. Navigating in BB10 is exponentially faster than with android systems. Flicking active frames up and out of the way while you go onto something else is multitasking in its purest sense. I use Android apps on my BB10 and have no problems switching since true BB security has been lost unless you are on an Enterprise system, but I just can't see myself going back to the usual way of navigating.

[dillyyo]

Implementation of more native BB functionality is my only hope for this Google Android transition. No reason they can't ease them out and acclimate all of the people who own the BB android phones, slowly. Anyone who starts to use it for awhile falls in love with this gesture based system.

[LuvULongTime]

There is also a third reason: remaining close to stock Android means that there is less for BB to change and test and certify when a new version of Android is released, which means faster updates. The more they customize, the slower they would be to get updates released to BB users.

Bingo. Easier to let Google do most of the heavy lifting in the SW department. Blackberry is now basically a glorified Android app developer (hub, VKB, calendar, etc, etc).

[TCB on Z10]

BlackBerry cannot put a red blinking LED on android phones ( except Priv) which I think is one of BlackBerry's greatest features.

BB, Still the One

[BCITMike]

LOL. Yeah sure. They want to have a Android phone that can't use Google Services and run a lot of apps that depend on that. Then you have the same situation with BB10. They don't control the OS because they want Google. Case closed.

So your first reply is that they don't have low level access and can't physically do it. The second reply is because they'd have to give up GMS. Both of these assertions are incorrect.

The op is talking about adding features to Android.Google Services is not integrated into the OS, its added on top. There is no risk of losing Google services by modifying Android, as long as you continue to meet the licensing requirements for GMS. BlackBerry can do what they want to Android itself, like adding gestures or active frames. The limitations are resources, not anything google apps related or access to code. They would not be making an incompatible fork of Android.

[Bluenoser63]

When I go back and forth between Android and BB10, I honestly don't understand how people could prefer the Android style of navigation to BB10 gestures. Gestures seem far superior to me, motion-wise, accuracy-wise, and considering the mechanics of the hand. I understand there are cons to BB10, but navigation-wise, I just scratch my head.

People have to actually see and use a BB10 device to understand how much better it is. BlackBerry didn't spread the word and Chen doesn't care to. He waved the white flag when he arrived and wanted Android so he didn't care to try and market it. I go the US and when they see my Z30, they are amazed how nice it is and that it is a BlackBerry.

I even went to a conference for IT managers and one of the talks was about MDM and I tried to get my contacts at BlackBerry to send a sales rep as they had a captive audience of people making IT decisions. I tried for weeks and BlackBerry never care to send anyone from marketing/sales to the conference. BlackBerry is still being lazy and thinking that customers will come to them.

[Bluenoser63]

So your first reply is that they don't have low level access and can't physically do it. The second reply is because they'd have to give up GMS. Both of these assertions are incorrect.

The op is talking about adding features to Android.Google Services is not integrated into the OS, its added on top. There is no risk of losing Google services by modifying Android, as long as you continue to meet the licensing requirements for GMS. BlackBerry can do what they want to Android itself, like adding gestures or active frames. The limitations are resources, not anything google apps related or access to code. They would not be making an incompatible fork of Android.

Fork you. Once BlackBerry does any of that, they create a fork of Android, then they have to have a team of developers to match any changes. And Google is being very restrictive on what you can actually do to Android to meet Google Services. As I said, once you create a fork, you cannot sell another version with Google Services. BlackBerry has to live within Googles rules. You have no understanding of the complexity that modifying a single piece of the core OS to make gestures at the lowest level of the OS to get something like Peek and Flow into the HUB from anywhere.

[cribble2k]

You can use apps like GMD Gesture control to make your own gestures.

Some launchers allow you to customize gestures as well.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

[Ment]

You can use apps like GMD Gesture control to make your own gestures.

Some launchers allow you to customize gestures as well.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

GMD requires root. Launcher gestures aren't OS pervasive. An all-gesture navigation in Android is technically possible. Google will never approve it for its licensed phones as an out-of-the box experience as it fragments the Android experience for its users. BB may be able to get it in as a user-selected mode.

[Tre Lawrence]

I've had gestures on my Android devices for a long time now. I prefer gestures.

If I were creating a platform, I'd go with what more people prefer.

LOL @ the pseudo-confusion. "Better" in technology is essentially what more consumers prefer.

[BCITMike]

Fork you. Once BlackBerry does any of that, they create a fork of Android, then they have to have a team of developers to match any changes. And Google is being very restrictive on what you can actually do to Android to meet Google Services. As I said, once you create a fork, you cannot sell another version with Google Services. BlackBerry has to live within Googles rules. You have no understanding of the complexity that modifying a single piece of the core OS to make gestures at the lowest level of the OS to get something like Peek and Flow into the HUB from anywhere.

I don't believe the GMS contract has been posted online, nor are they limited to the same licensing constraints as they may have licensed to others (in other words, they can license whatever they want to BlackBerry, if they feel like it, its not licensed to the OHA, it's licensed per vendor). If you can still run their GMS, then that is their goal! Most of the tightening of restrictions is forcing vendors to have more Google apps installed out of the box and less of their own homegrown feature that displaces Google. This is a Google power move to prevent competition. So BlackBerry mostly needs to not replace Google app functionality, so I would say its very unlikely the BB10 voice control with onboard action without Internet connection is never likely to come as it would compete with Google now.

They don't want 10 flavours of Android that are incompatible with each other (B&N, Amazon, Chinese variants, etc). You can't make an incompatible fork, is the restriction. Otherwise, all changes a vendor does is a simple fork and would be a violation. I'm not familiar with TouchWiz, or dual displayed apps, but those are not stock AOSP features, AFAIK.

If Google still wants Android to be king of the hill, they do need to incorporate newer, better technologies with each new release. They'll play ball if the feature isn't stupid and provides benefits without taking away from Google. iOS is getting more gestures. BB10 already has gestures. If you don't see Android getting more gestures integrated, which would make implementation easier, then I guess you won't agree.

Google Placing Tighter Restrictions On Android Contracts - Business Insider

This is from a year ago. They touch on the customizations from Samsung being a fighting topic, but I believe that involved posturing and threats due to the Tizen effort and the Samsung app store. Or it could be the complaints from people about TouchWiz sucking and being bloated.

I'm also under the understanding there is already limited support for gestures in Android through third party apps. Gee, I wonder how that is possible without low level access changing the core OS. Oh right, there ARE API's for this. Using Touch Gestures | Android Developers