1. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I used an iPhone for two days and returned it. I have only used Blackberry and Samsung Galaxy's. My only complaint with Samsung is the bloat and duplication of apps. Conite, I follow your posts and I think my next phone will be a Pixel. iPhone maybe...I have never been an Apple fan.
    I've said it a million times but I'm not sure to who or where. So another opinion. You can't go wrong on Pixel or iPhone at this point.

    I'm a dual carry with a Pixel 3a/iPhone XR combo. The XR became my primary device for my clients and family with FaceTime and iMessage capabilities.

    I needed a second device because the dual SIM/eSIM capability is great but it's harder to dual task. I purchased my 3a for dual task purpose and find the Google Android simple version excellent with little bloat and great value. It's well supported by carriers like you'd expect Apple or Google proprietary devices to be supported.

    It really comes down to, are you missing any conveniences from not having the Apple proprietary features?
    04-07-21 11:22 AM
  2. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    I just picked up a cheap V20 off of eBay for use as a lightweight budget portable DAC for runs and bike rides. Holy heck is it a great sounding device! I'll never put a SIM in it or connect to WiFi outside my house, but I agree it's one of the nicest Android phones I've seen.

    Posted via CB10
    I had a V20 until 2019. Unfortunately for LG, I switched to Samsung, since LG is so bad in terms of any updates at all.

    The DAC was amazing, though. It was better than my standalone Fiio DAC.
    04-12-21 02:40 PM
  3. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I had a V20 until 2019. Unfortunately for LG, I switched to Samsung, since LG is so bad in terms of any updates at all.

    The DAC was amazing, though. It was better than my standalone Fiio DAC.
    Both LG and Sony have some great features....
    04-12-21 02:55 PM
  4. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    Such a shame, I was a fan of the V series and nearly got myself a V20 but eventually opted for a S7 Edge that year after the Note7 went up in smoke for Samsung.

    LG brought a lot of things we now take for granted in our smartphones, from OIS, Wide Angle Lens, Fast Charging, 18:9 aspect ratio, Capacitive Display etc... the point at which they began blurring the lines between G and V series is the point at which I think they began losing, they sort of lost the path and the G and V really didn’t have much differentiation in the devices they release after V30.

    Ah well, another one bites the dust, they had the money and know-how, but just didn’t have the strategy and focus at all.

    EDIT:

    I also think the market is becoming near impossible to compete in Android for non-Chinese manufacturers, Samsung are in a great deal of trouble, the fact that in Q4 2020 a manufacturer like Apple managed to outsell Samsung who sell tons more low end and mid range phones, is a serious sign of danger for Samsung as it means the Chinese OEMs are really eating into Samsung’s sales the way they have done Sony, HTC and LG.

    A lot of the non-Chinese Android OEMs seem to be dying a slow death, there is no way a company like Apple should be so close to a company like Samsung in market share that they trade places with them in some quarters now. Counterpoints latest Jan 2021 sales figures are a scary sight for Samsung, 6 of the top 10 best selling phones are iPhone this is then followed by 2 Xiaomi models and then two very low end Samsung models.

    I remember posting in one forum back in 2015/2016 that once the Chinese OEMs figure out UI and Updates, they would be incredibly difficult to beat and it has partially come true, many of them are still not all that great at updates but they have been brilliant at UI and packaging great value for money devices to the point where they are driving the old guard out. Sony are now looking at special niches for their devices like the Xperia Pro, HTC are barely clinging on and HMD Nokia are throwing whatever they can at the wall but looking very limp.

    At this point anything between mid range to low range will be dominated by Chinese Android phones (mostly BBK stuff) and then the upper mid range and high end will be Apple, it’s a tough one for guys like Samsung, I am keeping a close eye on them for the next few years, they desperately need to land Foldables correctly or Samsung Mobile will be another Nokia sooner than we think, they need to differentiate ASAP.
    Last edited by Tsepz_GP; 04-12-21 at 03:24 PM.
    04-12-21 03:06 PM
  5. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Such a shame, I was a fan of the V series and nearly got myself a V20 but eventually opted for a S7 Edge that year after the Note7 went up in smoke for Samsung.

    LG brought a lot of things we now take for granted in our smartphones, from OIS, Wide Angle Lens, Fast Charging, 18:9 aspect ratio, Capacitive Display etc... the point at which they began blurring the lines between G and V series is the point at which I think they began losing, they sort of lost the path and the G and V really didn’t have much differentiation in the devices they release after V30.

    Ah well, another one bites the dust, they had the money and know-how, but just didn’t have the strategy and focus at all.

    EDIT:

    I also think the market is becoming near impossible to compete in Android for non-Chinese manufacturers, Samsung are in a great deal of trouble, the fact that in Q4 2020 a manufacturer like Apple managed to outsell Samsung who sell tons more low end and mid range phones, is a serious sign of danger for Samsung as it means the Chinese OEMs are really eating into Samsung’s sales the way they have done Sony, HTC and LG.

    A lot of the non-Chinese Android OEMs seem to be dying a slow death, there is no way a company like Apple should be so close to a company like Samsung in market share that they trade places with them in some quarters now. Counterpoints latest Jan 2021 sales figures are a scary sight for Samsung, 6 of the top 10 best selling phones are iPhone this is then followed by 2 Xiaomi models and then two very low end Samsung models.

    I remember posting in one forum back in 2015/2016 that once the Chinese OEMs figure out UI and Updates, they would be incredibly difficult to beat and it has partially come true, many of them are still not all that great at updates but they have been brilliant at UI and packaging great value for money devices to the point where they are driving the old guard out. Sony are now looking at special niches for their devices like the Xperia Pro, HTC are barely clinging on and HMD Nokia are throwing whatever they can at the wall but looking very limp.

    At this point anything between mid range to low range will be dominated by Chinese Android phones (mostly BBK stuff) and then the upper mid range and high end will be Apple, it’s a tough one for guys like Samsung, I am keeping a close eye on them for the next few years, they desperately need to land Foldables correctly or Samsung Mobile will be another Nokia sooner than we think, they need to differentiate ASAP.
    I agree that lack of innovation or quality was not LG's problem.

    I think what we're seeing is that, like flat screen TVs, phones are simply commodities to the majority of users. In that environment, there's not really much that an OEM can do to differentiate themselves. They are left with trying to hit a specific target segment with a specific feature set at a competitive price point for each model, and, assuming the quality is adequate, the best combination of price a distribution partners wins.

    As someone who represented a tiny segment (preferring BB10 without the PKB to Android or iOS), I gave up on my expectations once BlackBerry started announcing what were effectively retro devices (Classic, Passport). So, since 2014, I've just been hoping for a "not completely horrible" mobile phone when it came time to replace my Z10.

    For me, after trying other devices, that phone ended up being the simplest smallest iPhone being sold, the 2020 SE. I run about a dozen apps on it (primarily for connecting to Microsoft and Google Suites and other communication platforms).

    I hate almost everything about my iPhone, but not as much as I hated the other devices I looked at! But I really like my LGV20 as a semi-disposable lossless music player for when I don't want to carry my very expensive dedicated Astell & Kern deck around.

    Posted via CB10
    04-12-21 04:08 PM
  6. the_boon's Avatar
    there's not really much that an OEM can do to differentiate themselves.
    There is, it's called stop making the same slab over and over again
    anon(5597702) likes this.
    04-12-21 06:09 PM
  7. app_Developer's Avatar
    There is, it's called stop making the same slab over and over again
    That’s only half the answer. The other, much more difficult, part is inventing something people want more than a slab.
    Laura Knotek and JeepBB like this.
    04-12-21 06:23 PM
  8. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    There is, it's called stop making the same slab over and over again
    By that logic, automakers would sell more cars if they made square steering wheels. The slab isn't the problem. Hardware and software have to combine to create a new "killer app." For legacy BlackBerry devices, the killer app was email. For the iPhone and Android the killer apps were the integration of cameras, location services, Web browsers, and of course the app stores.

    TVs are commodities because they all display the same programming, and phones have become the same. Until someone makes a phone that allows the user to do something important that they can't do on their current phones, there will be no disruption.

    Posted via CB10
    04-12-21 09:30 PM
  9. the_boon's Avatar
    By that logic, automakers would sell more cars if they made square steering wheels.
    Can we stop with the silly comparisons?

    The only job of a steering wheel is to steer. A circle is the best proven shape for that application.

    A smartphone can be used in many different ways. Therefore, different form factors can provide a better experience depending on the use case.
    mushroom_daddy and bh7171 like this.
    04-12-21 10:39 PM
  10. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    There is, it's called stop making the same slab over and over again
    LG is one of the few manufacturers who still make a few keyboard driven phones like the LG Folder 2, but I think they do limited releases in countries where they are popular

    https://m.gsmarena.com/lg_folder_2-10186.php
    04-13-21 03:52 AM
  11. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Can we stop with the silly comparisons?

    The only job of a steering wheel is to steer. A circle is the best proven shape for that application.

    A smartphone can be used in many different ways. Therefore, different form factors can provide a better experience depending on the use case.
    It’s not a silly comparison though. If LG was spending crazy money on different forms and styles like G8X, Velvet and Wing, then bringing out PKB designs from their old designs repository, would have been too easy. LG has the economic resources and needed differentiation forms in mobile business. LG has the research and sales data to make the decision. LG and it’s more successful competitors have chosen flip phones without full PKB over and over.
    04-13-21 04:34 AM
  12. the_boon's Avatar
    LG and it’s more successful competitors have chosen flip phones without full PKB over and over.
    Doesn't mean full PKB phones wouldn't have sold just as well as their flip/T9.
    04-13-21 06:45 AM
  13. the_boon's Avatar
    LG is one of the few manufacturers who still make a few keyboard driven phones like the LG Folder 2, but I think they do limited releases in countries where they are popular

    https://m.gsmarena.com/lg_folder_2-10186.php
    [IMG=1242x2688]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210413/f02198ef3781b883b054a7e781c5da88.png[/url]
    That's just a T9 phone.
    04-13-21 06:45 AM
  14. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    That's just a T9 phone.
    Yep, not a slab!
    the_boon likes this.
    04-13-21 07:07 AM
  15. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Doesn't mean full PKB phones wouldn't have sold just as well as their flip/T9.
    In your mind....

    But LG and other OEMs have a lot more data about device sales and consumer trends than you do. All you have are your own desires, which are a "blip" in the data.

    How many PC manufactures are there today? Is that good for consumers?

    I'll be honest I don't like the idea of OEMs like LG and Sony leaving the business.

    Apple is taking the top right off the smartphone market.... Oppo and Xiaomi are seeing most their success in phones that retail at under $200 phones in the global market. Samsung saw a decline last year in overall units shipped, yet their A Series saw growth.
    Which means the Note and S series are the ones taking the hit. I understand Google move to not do a true flagship in this market... but will that become the norm?
    04-13-21 08:21 AM
  16. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Can we stop with the silly comparisons?

    The only job of a steering wheel is to steer. A circle is the best proven shape for that application.

    A smartphone can be used in many different ways. Therefore, different form factors can provide a better experience depending on the use case.
    I don't think the comparison is silly when you seemed to suggest that changing a format (slabs) that the vast majority of users and software developers have accepted will magically lead to more sales. Once a form factor is accepted by 99% of the market it becomes as obvious as the round steering wheel in the minds of most users.

    I'm deeply unhappy with the state of mobile phones, but I'm under no illusion that the path forward in terms of sales is a return to physical keyboards.

    Posted via CB10
    Laura Knotek and JeepBB like this.
    04-14-21 11:15 AM
  17. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I don't think the comparison is silly when you seemed to suggest that changing a format (slabs) that the vast majority of users and software developers have accepted will magically lead to more sales. Once a form factor is accepted by 99% of the market it becomes as obvious as the round steering wheel in the minds of most users.

    I'm deeply unhappy with the state of mobile phones, but I'm under no illusion that the path forward in terms of sales is a return to physical keyboards.

    Posted via CB10
    Or more options.... even just in slabs. Like both Apple and Samsung, but I don't really want them to dominate the US market. But at least there are two.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    04-14-21 11:38 AM
  18. app_Developer's Avatar
    In the long run, the US market is smaller compared to the Chinese market and the rest of Asia. But there again, the strongest new companies that are exciting to watch are also making slabs.

    As someone else said, it is a lot like TV’s. At some point, a nice predictable sheet of glass is the tabula rasa that content providers of all scales can target, and that in turn gives consumers the widest possible inventory of content. It’s costly to swim against that tide.
    04-14-21 02:36 PM
  19. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    In the long run, the US market is smaller compared to the Chinese market and the rest of Asia. But there again, the strongest new companies that are exciting to watch are also making slabs.

    As someone else said, it is a lot like TV’s. At some point, a nice predictable sheet of glass is the tabula rasa that content providers of all scales can target, and that in turn gives consumers the widest possible inventory of content. It’s costly to swim against that tide.
    I remember when we said it was crazy how much a full screen device would cost.... now I suspect it much more costly for a custom display along with engineering, production and warranty of a PKB.
    04-14-21 03:59 PM
  20. app_Developer's Avatar
    I remember when we said it was crazy how much a full screen device would cost.... now I suspect it much more costly for a custom display along with engineering, production and warranty of a PKB.
    Yes! In our business customers are thrilled with these all-glass displays that we put in cars now. Reality is they are quite a bit cheaper to make than the old clusters.
    04-14-21 04:26 PM
  21. app_Developer's Avatar
    I'm not saying that cost is the only advantage of the new glass clusters we use in cars. In the old days in 911's for example, the tachs were oriented for street use and basically were useless on the track. So in those days we had to remove the gauge and physically rotate it 90 degrees for track use.

    And course that's a lot of work, so nobody ever fixed them when they drove the car on the street again. Now we have the ability put a whole cluster in track mode and everything is totally optimized for that purpose. Then when you're ready to go home you turn it back to normal.

    Then your wife drives the car with her key and it's all set up exactly as she likes it for whatever she wants to do that day. This is definitely progress.
    04-14-21 04:34 PM
  22. the_boon's Avatar
    Reality is they are quite a bit cheaper to make than the old clusters.
    But they still have their downsides.
    bh7171 likes this.
    04-14-21 06:43 PM
  23. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    But they still have their downsides.
    Such as?
    04-14-21 10:35 PM
  24. the_boon's Avatar
    Such as?
    They are more distracting to use, therefore less safe. Since glass is less accurate than physical levers/buttons/switches, one would need to take their visual concentration away from the road and towards the entertainment system to accurately tap where they need to, or it would result in accidental taps. Because flat glass is not accurate.
    04-14-21 10:58 PM
  25. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    They are more distracting to use, therefore less safe. Since glass is less accurate than physical levers/buttons/switches, one would need to take their visual concentration away from the road and towards the entertainment system to accurately tap where they need to, or it would result in accidental taps. Because flat glass is not accurate.
    That’s like arguing tallest dwarf. It’s like saying a PKB is safer than VKB for texting while driving.
    04-15-21 06:33 AM
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