[monil11]

Since we all talk about side loading on this website and forums, I just want to know if side loading is legal. In particular, is taking an apk file that is NOT developed by us and converting it into a bar file legal? Maybe the guys at CB could answer this?

If it is legal then is it possible in theory to have an Android app store for BlackBerry which provides converted bar files for at least the free Android apps so that we can install these apps directly from the device instead of side loading.

Posted via CB10

[Craig Perkel]

Android is an open source platform and therefore it is legal to sideload FREE apps or apps that you have bought and paid for yourself and then converted.

The process is legal.

The Play Store could theoretically work as a sideload but I believe that is has been blacklisted by BlackBerry... for now atleast.

[Kris Simundson]

It is not legal in any sense. Whether the app is free or not, we are taking someone elses work to use for our own purposes with something they did not intend it to do.

Actually I made a how to sideload video the other day and discussed this subject in a bit through out the video



its more near the 10min mark, but I talk about it earlier as well.

[Kris Simundson]

Android is an open source platform and therefore it is legal to sideload FREE apps or apps that you have bought and paid for yourself and then converted.

The process is legal.

The Play Store could theoretically work as a sideload but I believe that is has been blacklisted by BlackBerry... for now atleast.

Android is open source yes, that does not mean the app is. If you tell me a game like Dead Trigger is built on open source, I'll call you out for not doing your homework.

[kbz1960]

So bbry users are delegated steelers now since it's the only way to get apps people want. Doubt anyone will get arrested.

[bekkay]

Per Google ToS, you cannot modify an app (even if it's free). If you do, you violate the ToS.

The only way to get an app legally is if the developer ports the app him/herself or you acquire permission to do so.

[Kris Simundson]

So bbry users are delegated steelers now since it's the only way to get apps people want. Doubt anyone will get arrested.

I also doubt that anyone will get arrested, however, It does not change the fact it is illegal. It does not change the fact that there could be a app developer out there who gets upset and serves BlackBerry a C&D. And how can BlackBerry fix that? By removing the Android Runtime all together, so therefore we all lose in that situation.

[bekkay]

I also doubt that anyone will get arrested, however, It does not change the fact it is illegal. It does not change the fact that there could be a app developer out there who gets upset and serves BlackBerry a C&D. And how can BlackBerry fix that? By removing the Android Runtime all together, so therefore we all lose in that situation.

Will a cease and desist notice actually go to BlackBerry?
Or the app sideloader?
I don't see how providing the runtime will be interpreted as a violation of one's IP rights or ToS.

[Kris Simundson]

Will a cease and desist notice actually go to BlackBerry?
Or the app sideloader?
I don't see how providing the runtime will be interpreted as a violation of one's IP rights or ToS.

It would go to BlackBerry as they're sort of providing the means. A app developer can't tell which individual has taken their app and ported it, but they sure as hell can see if their app has been converted. They just have to check one of the many sites.

[JasW]

Per Google ToS, you cannot modify an app (even if it's free). If you do, you violate the ToS.

The only way to get an app legally is if the developer ports the app him/herself or you acquire permission to do so.

That's only for Google apps. Third party developers have their own terms of use. For example, under Instagram's terms of use, one is not allowed to "change, modify, adapt or alter the Service." "Service" is defined as "the Instagram website, the Instagram service, or any applications (including mobile applications) made available by Instagram." This means that anyone using Instagram on their BB10 device is in violation of the Instagram terms of service.

[avt123]

Hopefully this gets locked down. Only developers should be able to side load.

If us consumers want an Android app so badly, do your best to convince the developer it is worth it, or just buy an Android device.

Continuously stealing work that comes from another platform will never get developers to our platform. BB10 needs more users, that will bring more developers.

[Kris Simundson]

Hopefully this gets locked down. Only developers should be able to side load.

If us consumers want an Android app so badly, do your best to convince the developer it is worth it, or just buy an Android device.

Continuously stealing work that comes from another platform will never get developers to our platform. BB10 needs more users, that will bring more developers.

I agree, exactly what I stated in my video

[kbz1960]

I also doubt that anyone will get arrested, however, It does not change the fact it is illegal. It does not change the fact that there could be a app developer out there who gets upset and serves BlackBerry a C&D. And how can BlackBerry fix that? By removing the Android Runtime all together, so therefore we all lose in that situation.

I agree. So if anyone wants to make a big fuss over it bbry is in bigger trouble than they are now.

Good thing CB can't? be taken in for promoting illegal activity.

[mikeo007]

And Blackberry (at least on the surface) agrees as well. They've stated numerous times that they consider sideloading piracy, and have stated they're undertaking measures to stop it. Unfortunately they seem to be extremely slow at doing it. The reasoning behind the slowness, at least in my opinion is obvious. But by not fixing this problem, they're being extremely hypocritical and hurting the developer relations that they've been striving so hard to build up.

[monil11]

It would go to BlackBerry as they're sort of providing the means. A app developer can't tell which individual has taken their app and ported it, but they sure as hell can see if their app has been converted. They just have to check one of the many sites.

I don't know if thats the case. As BlackBerry has never advocated side loading for us general users. All they have done is enabled Android apps to run in a sandbox on bb10 devices to help devs port their app. And since Android itself is open source that should not be illegal. Any action taken must be directed towards users.

Eg. Cannot blame the knife manufacturer for the stabbings that happen with the use of their knifes.

And as you said a Dev cannot track individual users who have side loaded their apps and therefore they can't do much about it, as has been the case up until now.

Posted via CB10

[pkcable]

BBRY preventing sideloading via some sort of software update is MUCH more likely than them removing the runtime. IMHO

[Kris Simundson]

And Blackberry (at least on the surface) agrees as well. They've stated numerous times that they consider sideloading piracy, and have stated they're undertaking measures to stop it. Unfortunately they seem to be extremely slow at doing it. The reasoning behind the slowness, at least in my opinion is obvious. But by not fixing this problem, they're being extremely hypocritical and hurting the developer relations that they've been striving so hard to build up.

I don't know if thats the case. As BlackBerry has never advocated side loading for us general users. All they have done is enabled Android apps to run in a sandbox on bb10 devices to help devs port their app. And since Android itself is open source that should not be illegal. Any action taken must be directed towards users.

Eg. Cannot blame the knife manufacturer for the stabbings that happen with the use of their knifes.

And as you said a Dev cannot track individual users who have side loaded their apps and therefore they can't do much about it, as has been the case up until now.

Posted via CB10

this right here is the major issue.

https://bdsc.webapps.blackberry.com/android/bpaa/

BlackBerry themselves offers up a online APK2BAR converter for Android Devs to simply test if their app is compatible. If there are no errors it spits out a bar file for them, and then all they need to do is get hands on a BB10 device and sideload. Which is perfectly fine, it's a Developer feature afterall. The issue is that they're making Dev mode to easy to access for the common user. I say a option like in android 4.1 and up where they disabled development mode unless you knew how to turn it on. (tap on build number 7 times)

[kbz1960]

BBRY preventing sideloading via some sort of software update is MUCH more likely than them removing the runtime. IMHO

Yepper, not surprising they haven't done it yet as that would be even less people buying them. They have to make it so only devs can do it to test their apps. Another rock and hard place. Allow it and make devs mad or kill it and make users mad and lose them.

[Poirots Progeny]

It's a shame - because, illegal or not - its the only way to get Google maps, instagram and vine, netflix etc on here.

So we're all relegated to thieves now?

Unfortunate or no, if this feature were not available I personally feel there would be even fewer purchases than there are now.

Ironically, the sideloading ability coupled with android 4.2 compatibility is a plus...

Oh what to do...



Posted via CB10 on my BlackBerry Q10

[masterscarhead1]

this right here is the major issue.

https://bdsc.webapps.blackberry.com/android/bpaa/

BlackBerry themselves offers up a online APK2BAR converter for Android Devs to simply test if their app is compatible. If there are no errors it spits out a bar file for them, and then all they need to do is get hands on a BB10 device and sideload. Which is perfectly fine, it's a Developer feature afterall. The issue is that they're making Dev mode to easy to access for the common user. I say a option like in android 4.1 and up where they disabled development mode unless you knew how to turn it on. (tap on build number 7 times)

Yah, but everyone would figure out how to do it anyways, and turn it on. It's not a permanent measure, and how exactly do you "select" against the common sideloader and the actual dev
Theoretically, I've always taken sideloading to be more of a grey area. It's not legal, but it's not fully illegal either, at least in terms of free apps. I guess it really depends on the TOS of the specific apps. In the case of IG, it says no change, modify, adapt or alter the Service. Well, we didn't modify their site or api, or anything to be honest. Sure, we converted it to a bar, but the apk itself is intact and untouched and not modified. We only converted to bar as a measure so the runtime can recognize it. Essentially, it is still running the apk, not a modified version of it.
Having said all this, I'm fully against downloading of paid apps and trying to convert them IF you did not purchase it. This is outright piracy on all grounds, and there is no way to justify this.
As for whether I support sideloading? Sure it is very convenient, and I do it too. However, If BB can pull in more apps and devs in the long run, I'm ok with stepping away from sideloading. The only reason I do it now is for the use apps that have no equivalent in BBW

[Poirots Progeny]

Yah, but everyone would figure out how to do it anyways, and turn it on. It's not a permanent measure, and how exactly do you "select" against the common sideloader and the actual dev
Theoretically, I've always taken sideloading to be more of a grey area. It's not legal, but it's not fully illegal either, at least in terms of free apps. I guess it really depends on the TOS of the specific apps. In the case of IG, it says no change, modify, adapt or alter the Service. Well, we didn't modify their site or api, or anything to be honest. Sure, we converted it to a bar, but the apk itself is intact and untouched and not modified. We only converted to bar as a measure so the runtime can recognize it. Essentially, it is still running the apk, not a modified version of it.
Having said all this, I'm fully against downloading of paid apps and trying to convert them IF you did not purchase it. This is outright piracy on all grounds, and there is no way to justify this.
As for whether I support sideloading? Sure it is very convenient, and I do it too. However, If BB can pull in more apps and devs in the long run, I'm ok with stepping away from sideloading. The only reason I do it now is for the use apps that have no equivalent in BBW

Well said, at the end there :-)

Posted via CB10 on my BlackBerry Q10

[theRock1975]

It is not illegal because it doesn't break any law.

Besides, you can just say you're "testing". That's what satellite TV testers say what they are watching UFC and boxing fights and the latest movies for free.

Posted via CB10

[Kris Simundson]

It's a shame - because, illegal or not - its the only way to get Google maps, instagram and vine, netflix etc on here.

So we're all relegated to thieves now?

Unfortunate or no, if this feature were not available I personally feel there would be even fewer purchases than there are now.

Ironically, the sideloading ability coupled with android 4.2 compatibility is a plus...

Oh what to do...



Posted via CB10 on my BlackBerry Q10

Buy BeMaps10, you'll get amazing google maps.

As for the other apps, if they're needed that badly, buy a cheap droid phone, or a ipod. There are other alternatives besides pirating someone elses work.

[avt123]

It's a shame - because, illegal or not - its the only way to get Google maps, instagram and vine, netflix etc on here.

If it isn't in BB World, it is nt meant to be on your device. Simple as that. Want those apps? Buy an iOS or Android device.

So we're all relegated to thieves now?

You are taking someones work that they made for a different platform and bringing it to the platform you use without their permission because YOU want it. Yep, sounds like you are a thief.

Unfortunate or no, if this feature were not available I personally feel there would be even fewer purchases than there are now.

How many users do you think actually know about side loading? I would think very little.

Ironically, the sideloading ability coupled with android 4.2 compatibility is a plus...

Oh what to do...

Stop stealing from developers and support them by emailing them to make apps for BB10, or go use their apps where it is legal, in the stores you are stealing their apps from.

[Kris Simundson]

It is not illegal because it doesn't break any law.

Besides, you can just say you're "testing". That's what satellite TV testers say what they are watching UFC and boxing fights and the latest movies for free.

Posted via CB10

Wow, you have such failed logic it's not even funny

Getting free PPV isn't stealing?