[Nharzhool]

Honestly, I don't care what happens. I just want the OS to be updated every now and then...I'm really liking BB10 so if they fix the little niggles in it and ADVERTISE, they might actually do something decent with this OS.

[anon(5828343)]

I think you may be underestimating the value of legacy to the rest of the world, it sells. It sells because folk feel comfortable with it, and it suits them, speculation is fine but it doesn't make money.

You've described precisely what BBRY totally pooched with BB10. People felt "comfortable with it (BBOS)" and when they launched BB10, BBRY took longstanding BB users for granted and basically raised a giant middle finger in their faces when they created an OS with so much of what people loved from BBOS missing. But that isn't a reason to keep BBOS around. BBOS was losing the battle for years. While BBOS continues to outsell BB10, the numbers (for both) are still pathetic.

What BBRY needs to do, and fast, is to get serious about BB10 (development, marketing and sales), produce an OS that is an easier and more natural transition from BB7 and market the heck out of it. They should then confidently shut down BB7 knowing that BB10 is a compelling "upgrade" for BB7 users.

I was an enthusiastic BB7 user but BB7 is the past. Unfortunately, BB10 as it stands isn't the future for many (most) consumers (I understand many on this forum feel strongly that BB10 is the future for them). So BBRY should get on with it and quicky get BB10 up to snuff and shut down BB7 once and for all.

If BB7 was the future, BBRY should never have bothered with BB10. But as we all know, BB7 was destined for the dustbin of smartphones.

[Old_Mil]

The danger in continuing to produce BBOS devices is not that they will cannibalize the sales of existing BB10 touchscreen devices but that they will cannibalize the sales of future transition devices like the Q20 because someone.just upgraded to a new 9900 six months ago and they are the antithesis of.early adopters still being on the old platform.

The danger in not is that enterprises will abandon your platform entirely if they can't procure new handsets until very near BES 12 is done.

It is pretty clear that it is the second motive driving this decision.

...and the idea of "I am going to abandon bb10 for android because I can't get a new 9900 for personal use..." is pure jackassery unless you enjoy cutting off your own nose to spite your face.

Posted via CB10

[iN8ter]

Please check wiki on Technology life cycle-the S curve said it all. Bb10 just out of rd phase. The bbos past its peak. That is why it make sense to keep both on the plate.

The typical life-cycle of a manufacturing process or production system from the stages of its initial conception to its culmination as either a technique or procedure of common practice or to its demise. The Y-axis of the diagram shows the business gain to the proprietor of the technology while the X-axis traces its lifetime.

Posted via CB10

Microsoft is #Winning and you never hear anyone laugh at them because of the suck Windows Mobile was because they killed it on the spot when they released Windows Phone and it redefined what people associate with Microsoft's Mobile User Experience.

No, they are not at iOS or Android Level, but they're doing about 5x better than Blackberry is at this point, even though a lot of those people who "hate Windows Phone" because it "sucked for Power Users" and they "Lost a Ton of Functionality they relied on" almost instantaneously moved on to other platforms like Android and iOS.

Part of the migration to BB10 should have included the simple acceptance that what constituted a "Blackberry user" would have been different than in the OS7 era, because the new OS has a different user experience and a different focus. Trying to the death to get those users to unilaterally move to OS10 in droves does not mean it's going to happen. Microsoft knew this, Nokia knew this, and so did others who used other OSes in the past like Sony and Samsung.

Support OS7 for businesses, sure.

Keep it around for the consumer market...

Well, that's their choice, but I know what people think of when they see one

[iN8ter]

First, "archaic" is a subjective term.

No, it isn't...

We're talking about a mobile platform that hasn't seen a major update since 2011? 2012 if you call 7.1 Major, which is a bit of a stretch.

Using an OS7 device in 2014 is akin to using an Android 2.3.6, iOS 5, or Windows Phone 7.5 device right now...

They're bringing back an OS that hasn't received a decent update in ~2 years when Google is limiting what OEMs can load Android on (with Play Store) to less than that, Lol.

Personally I think the OS10 devices are decent, but with Blackberry's user base, they were practically destined to fail. Their own users did them no help trying to move forward - those same users who complained about the template devices with bad hardware back in 2010/11, mind you.

[BBNation]

Anyone makes such comments did not follow the bb well.
1 The reason bb7 is still sold cos it brings the service revenue which keeps bb alive. without that BB would have disappeared.
2 BB 10 over priced so that is y bb7 sells well. this will change with z3

[oilgeo10]

I just returned from a holiday week in Hawaii, at Waikiki. With all of the tens of thousands of people there, I honestly didn't see a single BB10 device other than my own. BB OS7 devices were the BB of choice but I would say far and away the #1 phone was a Samsung device followed by Apple iPhones. It's clear to me that BB10 was too much of a change without any marketing to highlight the new features and at the same time it eliminated too much of the best OS7 features.

In hindsight, while OS7 needed to be replaced, BB10 should have kept everything that OS7 had and just added the Hub, the new camera resolutions and features, and introducing swiping while keeping all button/trackball related functions that do the same thing as swiping. Just those functions and at the same time being a much easier OS for developers to work with. Only then could the introduction of other new apps and working ways of the phone be added. The new lineup of BB10 phones should have first been exactly the same OS7 devices but with the larger memory and screen resolution for supporting BB10 OS. Then an all touch screen device like the Z10, Z30 to compete with Samsung and Apple.

BlackBerry didn't learn from the PlayBook OS release and BB10 was released the same way, very immature OS that caused grief to even the crackberry fans. Now it is the best OS out there in my opinion, it's just too bad that so few people truly know about it.

[trwallace]

it can be but it can also hold people to blackberry. It would be like microsoft pulling the plug on xp but about 6 years ago. Its fine they want people to move over to the new OS but some companies would just kill the phones instead and then you lose the customer base. Many of these legacy devices are going to businesses as a cheap way to communicate in a business environment. They dont need all the extra features. They just need the phone and messag ing services everything else would not be required. The phone is perfect for those applications plus it keeps people llinked to blackberry and service revenue. The minute they pull the plug on that OS they lose alot of revenue that they will slowly have to replace. It would basically be liking pulling the rug out from under themselves. Thats the trick is to move people over and find other sources of revenue to replace the os7 revenue. You cant do that overnight or you might as well shut down blackberry. They can add service revenue through bes, bbm and other sources but not overnight. The handsets need to stay for a whiile longer until revenue comes around . Yeah in theory it would be great to just move everyone over to bb10 but in practice it would be a disaster. Not a smart move.

[belfastdispatcher]

Did you not read? I said where they were. Listen to the conference calls before BB10 launched where they stated that service revenues were under pressure.

Posted via CB10

That's a very vague statement, it could mean anything, not necessarily that it was under pressure from carriers. Judging by where we are today it didn't refer to carriers at all.


#believeinfilm

[Bishkin]

Be thankful for OS7 users. If BB will to stop catering to them now and try to migrate them to BB10, they will all end up with iOS, Android and some Windows. After that BB will cease to exists, now would be a good time for you to look at some other devices. It is all about revenue, not security, not leaks, or how much you love your BB10 devices to death. It is all about money.

[Soulstream]

Stupid question probably, but what if carriers were opposed to BIS, and wouldn't have carried BB10 phones if they included that? Maybe Blackberry wanted to include it, but couldn't leverage carriers to agree to it.

[belfastdispatcher]

Stupid question probably, but what if carriers were opposed to BIS, and wouldn't have carried BB10 phones if they included that? Maybe Blackberry wanted to include it, but couldn't leverage carriers to agree to it.

Carriers have no problem selling BIS plans today so evidence points in the other direction.


#believeinfilm

[Soulstream]

I know that. But what if a new contract had to be signed in order for carriers to continue supporting BIS for BB10. I have no information what-so-ever, but maybe the existing contracts only apply to OS7, and carriers didn't want to extend it to BB10.

[belfastdispatcher]

I know that. But what if a new contract had to be signed in order for carriers to continue supporting BIS for BB10. I have no information what-so-ever, but maybe the existing contracts only apply to OS7, and carriers didn't want to extend it to BB10.

Why assume things when there's no evidence whatsoever. My suspicion is that it was BB's decision to scrap BIS on BB10, possibly for technical reasons.


#believeinfilm

[stlabrat]

I know that. But what if a new contract had to be signed in order for carriers to continue supporting BIS for BB10. I have no information what-so-ever, but maybe the existing contracts only apply to OS7, and carriers didn't want to extend it to BB10.

Bb10 does not need, or use, or designed to use bis. Gov and some carrier do not want to pay rim for the bis. (remember India want server set up in their country? ). Two things: bbos more difficult to monitoring user if server can not be tapped. - gov issue. The data compression let user pay less fee (cheap) and fork the small amount to rim - made less incentive for carrier - rather sell non compression data user that make money for them (remember, more gb you use, more profit for them - that is why unlimited bis plan not benefit for them). Bb10 is on same footage as other platform of non-compression. It just did things differently- imo,bettet for communication and faster multitasking - for someone need to make living (less of the mom dad pay)

Posted via CB10

[daveycrocket]

You've described precisely what BBRY totally pooched with BB10. People felt "comfortable with it (BBOS)" and when they launched BB10, BBRY took longstanding BB users for granted and basically raised a giant middle finger in their faces when they created an OS with so much of what people loved from BBOS missing. But that isn't a reason to keep BBOS around. BBOS was losing the battle for years. While BBOS continues to outsell BB10, the numbers (for both) are still pathetic.

What BBRY needs to do, and fast, is to get serious about BB10 (development, marketing and sales), produce an OS that is an easier and more natural transition from BB7 and market the heck out of it. They should then confidently shut down BB7 knowing that BB10 is a compelling "upgrade" for BB7 users.

I was an enthusiastic BB7 user but BB7 is the past. Unfortunately, BB10 as it stands isn't the future for many (most) consumers (I understand many on this forum feel strongly that BB10 is the future for them). So BBRY should get on with it and quicky get BB10 up to snuff and shut down BB7 once and for all.

If BB7 was the future, BBRY should never have bothered with BB10. But as we all know, BB7 was destined for the dustbin of smartphones.

Hi, firstly may I say that my 9810 is a fab phone and that also my Z30 is also a fab phone but they are different.
I think a major issue is that there are those of us who have the good fortune to be able to afford to be able to have these views and there are others who do not.
I came to BB10 through my 9810, my daughter prefers her 9860 and my wife loves her curve, ie. the phones function as they want them to do.
I can see nothing wrong about having two current operating systems but also at the same time feel that BB could up the BB10 profile.
I have two springer spaniels one is great at hunting but won't carry the other is great at hunting but likes to retrieve, we all have things for differing reasons. You may try to argue that BB10 does all that OS 7 can do but the vast majority do not feel this for what ever reason whether it be price or functionality.
Would it not be better to just celebrate BlackBerry rather than having a tunnel vision.
Car manufacturers don't just have one model that functions well for all, do they?

[anon(5828343)]

Car manufacturers don't just have one model that functions well for all, do they?

Maybe if BBRY had a stronger record of marketing their devices, I'd be more confident but since the only thing they've proven over the past 3-4 years is their sheer ineptitude, I would think that maintaining two different OS's is a little more than they can handle. If Apple, with its far larger budget, far more capable management team and far more effective marketing and sales strategies won't manage two and, I would argue, competing operating systems, I would think that BBRY with its fast shrinking budget, its ham-fisted management and largely non-existent marketing and sales strategies would probably be well-advised to transition as quickly as possible to a single OS that they can live or die on.

Don't get me wrong. If BB7 was really the future, I'd be all for it. But I've heard (and I supposed believed) the argument from so many BBRY insiders and fans that BB7's limitations prevented it from competing effectively with iPhone and Android and that there was little more that could be done to perfume this pig. I do realize that there are many (thousands and perhaps even millions) of smartphone users who are perfectly happy with the limitations of BB7 but as time and numbers have shown, those numbers are on a permanent and obvious decline. So if those assumptions are correct, that BB7's days are and have been numbered for quite some time, any smart business would be looking to find its future and transition to it as quickly and as effectively as possible.

I'll be the first to say that BB10's launch was a complete disaster and that over a year later it is still struggling for stability and relevance. But that is not helped in any way by keeping BB7 alive.

Again, if BBRY had demonstrated an ability to successfully manage one operating system, then sure, have fun managing two. But since they haven't shown an ability to do anything really right recently, I don't think it hurts them much to actually focus their attention on doing one thing and doing it right.

[kbz1960]

I will become an Android user if that happens before they release a BB10 phone that doesn't force me to wipe on the screen to do everything.

So you getting a slider then? Which android phone has a trackpad? Which ones don't make you swipe everywhere? Oh, saved by a home button?

[A895]

So you getting a slider then? Which android phone has a trackpad? Which ones don't make you swipe everywhere? Oh, saved by a home button?

I think he meant all the gestures.

Sent from my XT907 using Mobile Nations mobile app

[kbz1960]

So BBRY screwed legacy users? Maybe legacy users are screwing BBRY?

Everything in tech moves on, things that don't get left to die.

[kbz1960]

I think he meant all the gestures.

Sent from my XT907 using Mobile Nations mobile app

So going from legacy to no home button is a deal breaker. Ok.

[belfastdispatcher]

So BBRY screwed legacy users? Maybe legacy users are screwing BBRY?

Everything in tech moves on, things that don't get left to die.

Wow, just wow, let's blame the legacy users that continue to prop up BlackBerry for the BB10 failures.

Great way of thinking.

It's everybody's fault for not buying BB10 devices now, how dare they buy something else with their cash.


#believeinfilm

[belfastdispatcher]

So going from legacy to no home button is a deal breaker. Ok.

It's simple:

You like product A from a company, the company replaces it with product B, you don't like product B so you have the following choices:

1. Go back to product A

2. Find a different product from a different company that you will like.

At no point is "keep the product B that you don't like and carry on regardless" an option.



#believeinfilm

[kbz1960]

Wow, just wow, let's blame the legacy users that continue to prop up BlackBerry for the BB10 failures.

Great way of thinking.

It's everybody's fault for not buying BB10 devices now, how dare they buy something else with their cash.


#believeinfilm

LOL. Don't take that seriously. It sounds like legacy users doesn't it? BB10 is killing BBRY. They hate us and made a phone we can't stand so if they don't keep legacy I'm moving to any other platform I can.

[kbz1960]

It's simple:

You like product A from a company, the company replaces it with product B, you don't like product B so you have the following choices:

1. Go back to product A

2. Find a different product from a different company that you will like.

At no point is "keep the product B that you don't like and carry on regardless" an option.



#believeinfilm

What happens when no one offers what you want?