06-25-11 07:56 AM
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  1. morfy50's Avatar
    someone here thinks RIM might have laid off "slackers'?? are they kidding? Most of the time, companies lay off based on seniority (presuming we are discussing the rank and file)
    Agreed. And those with the highest salaries are first out the door. Plain and simple. It's nice to imagine RIM put more consideration into it (setting themselves up for a rebound on the future) but I doubt it.
    06-21-11 04:37 PM
  2. Tõnis's Avatar
    I wonder if RIM would like to hire me ... as a paid poster here on CB! Then again, why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-21-11 06:24 PM
  3. nomoredroid's Avatar
    The worst part about it is Management is going to make cuts, revenue will improve, management looks like heroes and get large bonuses. Meanwhile hundreds of workers are without a job.
    typically the "management" who put the company in a horrible position are the ones who skate away with everything still in tact. Its scary out there. Take a look at what Al Mann has done to countless 1000's of lives and look at where he and his crappy management sit.....all multi millionaires who have run a company into the ground
    06-21-11 07:04 PM
  4. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    I think it is good for RIM. I am sure their are employee's doing duplicate tasks, there are middle management types who have assistants just for the sake of it.

    A bit of fat trimming, and a bit of people moving to shake up departments will be good for them,

    These high level marketing people leaving IMO is very positive, seriously what good can you say about RIM's marketing efforts in the last 24 months?

    Put the pressure on them, and let them quit without needing a pay out, get some freshj blood in there

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-21-11 07:14 PM
  5. nomoredroid's Avatar
    fat trimming? Strange reference for people losing their jobs because the leadership of the company drove them into this position. The lower level people losing their jobs didnt take the company here....This is good for the multi millionaire greedy CEO's...thats it
    K Bear and vrs626 like this.
    06-21-11 07:41 PM
  6. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    fat trimming? Strange reference for people losing their jobs because the leadership of the company drove them into this position. The lower level people losing their jobs didnt take the company here....This is good for the multi millionaire greedy CEO's...thats it
    When a company is doing great, they don't pay attention to the added bloat, it isn't till times are tough you discover that Joe doesn't need an assistant, as Joe is barely needed himself.

    Poor leadership and poor checks and balances allowed those to keep jobs that were not needed.

    With the way business works company's must adapt, and unfortunately people who do not increase their skill sets are not secured in a job, what is even more unfortunate is when you are the subordinate of a person who has not increased their skill set and when they are let go, you go with them.

    It would be interesting to see what sort of employee's lost their jobs, and what sort of packages they were provided by RIM.
    ritesh and menaknow like this.
    06-21-11 08:20 PM
  7. K Bear's Avatar
    If RIM truly was trimming the fat, Mike and Jim would be on the cutting floor ready for the scrapple.
    06-21-11 08:31 PM
  8. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    If RIM truly was trimming the fat, Mike and Jim would be on the cutting floor ready for the scrapple.
    I have not given up on them yet,

    IF they haven't got their head squarely back in the game by Fiscal 2013, I'll be one calling for their heads,

    But the last 12-9 months has shows some great foresight with the acquisitions they are making, the fact they BOTH came to the earning call.

    The Playbook is developing nicely, hasn't met the mark yet set by Jim, but if the development growth the Playbook is getting is an indication of the new direction of RIM, I don't think we need to chop off it's head and throw the company into a 3-6 month turmoil, which dropping the founders would certainly do within a company that more than 50% based in its inception town.
    06-21-11 08:39 PM
  9. K Bear's Avatar
    I have not given up on them yet,

    IF they haven't got their head squarely back in the game by Fiscal 2013, I'll be one calling for their heads,

    But the last 12-9 months has shows some great foresight with the acquisitions they are making, the fact they BOTH came to the earning call.

    The Playbook is developing nicely, hasn't met the mark yet set by Jim, but if the development growth the Playbook is getting is an indication of the new direction of RIM, I don't think we need to chop off it's head and throw the company into a 3-6 month turmoil, which dropping the founders would certainly do within a company that more than 50% based in its inception town.
    Things went wrong with the Storm series and haven't been right since. Too much half baked, un-imaginative devices coming out of Waterloo being touted as iPhone killers when they were just refreshes or utter failures. That's 3 years of poor leadership. That should not be tolerated.
    06-21-11 08:50 PM
  10. pattste's Avatar
    You don't lay off the poor performers, you just fire them. The people RIM laid off are probably good, hard working people. I for one am sick of companies who play games with people's livelihoods. I am sure the top execs will never see one dime in salary or bonus reduction while the people who do the real work will be told "too bad, so sad, there goes your job."
    Absolutely.

    To all those who think RIM is cutting the fat or badly performing employees and that RIM will end up a better company, you're dreaming. The only reason why they're making cuts is to please investors and analysts. A company with two CEOs who wanted to trim the fat wouldn't have to look too far. In reality, the cuts are often quite arbitrary, with departments receiving a memo that they need to cut x% of all staff. Or sometimes they will cut R&D because that's costly and doesn't bring a return on investment until (sometimes) years into the future. By then they figure they'll be doing better and purchase a couple of small startups for their technology.

    I have worked for two technology companies that have undergone major staff cuts. One time my department went from 140 employees down to 17. I survived but was sending resumes left and right trying to find something, anything else. I guarantee you that virtually all of my coworkers, especially the good ones with real possibilities, were doing the same. Another time our unit was outsourced to India and went from 70 employees down to 19 (I didn't survive the cuts). In retrospect, those who were let go were the lucky ones.
    06-21-11 09:48 PM
  11. pattste's Avatar
    Things went wrong with the Storm series and haven't been right since. Too much half baked, un-imaginative devices coming out of Waterloo being touted as iPhone killers when they were just refreshes or utter failures. That's 3 years of poor leadership. That should not be tolerated.
    I agree. When the Torch came out, every single review was calling the phone underpowered or barely adequate. Yet RIM tried to push more refreshes until Verizon told them to take their Storm3 refresh and stuff it. On a similar note, AT&T hasn't even picked up the 9780. I think that's when RIM realized they needed more competitive specs. Unfortunately, all three or four phones rumoured for this year, while decent, are underpowered to run QNX and are virtually guaranteed not to be upgradeable. And not a single one of these phones is dual-core (like several Android phones coming out this year or the rumoured iPhone 5), has a display comparable to the iPhone 4 (which came out summer 2010) or a front-facing camera (to video chat with the Playbook).
    06-21-11 09:55 PM
  12. j-10's Avatar
    If RIM truly was trimming the fat, Mike and Jim would be on the cutting floor ready for the scrapple.
    I'm shocked, simply SHOCKED the board of directors hasn't taken this up with them. Makes it all the more unbelievable the two of them head that too.

    I would have much more respect for them if they only accepted cash compensation of $1 a year or some other nominal amount. Tie it to performance so they stop releasing half baked products that end up receiving OS updates that make things worse.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-21-11 10:13 PM
  13. Rootbrian's Avatar
    Are lay-offs affecting my use of my blackberry and service, including bis? No. So I doubt it'll affect everybody using blackberries either. Jobs lay people off, I got laid off from a few jobs without any reason whatsoever and the company was doing fine, like rim, they just laid off people.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-22-11 01:27 AM
  14. ZMc1834's Avatar
    You don't lay off the poor performers, you just fire them. The people RIM laid off are probably good, hard working people. I for one am sick of companies who play games with people's livelihoods. I am sure the top execs will never see one dime in salary or bonus reduction while the people who do the real work will be told "too bad, so sad, there goes your job."
    Trust me, poor performers are not always fired, they are not always reprimanded for unsatisfactory work. I have watched fellow employs sit on the job, take extended non-permitted breaks, and continue on with their job. In the world that we are in today, it is all about who like who and who you know, for the most part, there may be some places that don't but more often than not. I've watched managers berate good employees while the slackers go unnoticed and when an upper manager is approached about the favoritism, the people were ignored and/or told to deal with it. So, its not always the case the bad employees just get fired, maybe someone in upper management finally realized what was going on and decided to act on it. Like I have stated previously, I don't know one way or the other in RIM's case, but it does happen.
    06-22-11 06:15 AM
  15. dkingsf's Avatar
    I hate to see people lose their jobs, but if RIM actually did this for the right reasons, like getting rid of people that were not following through on their jobs, not performing at a top level, and putting RIM in this situation, I would understand, but more than likely the people at the bottom are losing their jobs for mistakes at the top.
    RIMM is NOT laying people off because of performance. If that were the case, hopefully they would have been outright fired.

    They layoffs are cutting out the fat and slimming down to get more nimble, OR... because executive management have made so many misteps and miscalculations in the consumer market that it's put the company in jeopardy and they are trying to save face.
    06-22-11 06:33 AM
  16. ZMc1834's Avatar
    RIMM is NOT laying people off because of performance. If that were the case, hopefully they would have been outright fired.

    They layoffs are cutting out the fat and slimming down to get more nimble, OR... because executive management have made so many misteps and miscalculations in the consumer market that it's put the company in jeopardy and they are trying to save face.
    As I have stated about 2 or 3 times, I never said that was what RIM was doing, I only stated "IF". In my original comment or maybe second comment I said something along the lines of RIM just laying off people, and then I stated another possibility, not a fact but a possibility.
    06-22-11 07:02 AM
  17. lnichols's Avatar
    I'm shocked, simply SHOCKED the board of directors hasn't taken this up with them. Makes it all the more unbelievable the two of them head that too.

    I would have much more respect for them if they only accepted cash compensation of $1 a year or some other nominal amount. Tie it to performance so they stop releasing half baked products that end up receiving OS updates that make things worse.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Not only are they both CEO's, they both have a seat on the board! So they aren't going to axe themselves. There is a movement remove them from either the board or the CEO spot by some investors. I'm surprised that this issue isn't brought up more and they only address the co-CEO thing and not the board thing either. They have way too much power for a publicly traded company whether they started the company or not.
    06-22-11 07:21 AM
  18. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Things went wrong with the Storm series and haven't been right since. Too much half baked, un-imaginative devices coming out of Waterloo being touted as iPhone killers when they were just refreshes or utter failures. That's 3 years of poor leadership. That should not be tolerated.
    In those 3 Years RIM has entered many new markets, there is an entire new thread that could be started about what RIM has been doing on the global scale for the last 3 years, and I don't think RIM ever claimed an iPhone killer, that was all media hype, the 9700 was a great device, the 9650 a refreshing idea for smartphone users, the Torch body is great (under powered yes)

    If you Just look at RIM as a company and look at their financials it wasn't until F2011 they started to show any sign of slowing down, the US market was the market they were hurting in, and US media was negative, and US anal cysts were negative, but it is F2011 that RIM has had to VERY much wake up, they are in F2012, can they release something to gain mind share? THAT! Is a big question

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-22-11 07:32 AM
  19. nomoredroid's Avatar
    The jobless rate in the USA is 16%...not 9% as reported by our federal government. It is my opinion we may have seen the peak of smartphone purchases until the carriers lower their prices. This does not bode well for RIM as the Federal government is also working with apple to move away from blackberry.

    These fat cat CEO's with RIM are no different than any other company that has been destroyed. The greed is just too powerful for these guys and they become out of touch. Its happened all over the world. Every single nation is in crisis, so dont think for a second if an entire country can fail because of greed (Greece, Ireland, ect) RIM cant fail in a heartbeat.

    The Blackberry crew has lost touch and now the hardworking people of the company get laid off while the people who put them in this situation have enough money to last 50 lifetimes. Why should a CEO who ruins a company have millions of dollars waiting for them when they leave the company? The Robber Barons are back and have been for a long time. RIM is no different. While the ultra-rich CEO gets richer, the workers suffer the consequences.
    06-22-11 08:41 AM
  20. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    The jobless rate in the USA is 16%...not 9% as reported by our federal government. It is my opinion we may have seen the peak of smartphone purchases until the carriers lower their prices. This does not bode well for RIM as the Federal government is also working with apple to move away from blackberry.

    These fat cat CEO's with RIM are no different than any other company that has been destroyed. The greed is just too powerful for these guys and they become out of touch. Its happened all over the world. Every single nation is in crisis, so dont think for a second if an entire country can fail because of greed (Greece, Ireland, ect) RIM cant fail in a heartbeat.

    The Blackberry crew has lost touch and now the hardworking people of the company get laid off while the people who put them in this situation have enough money to last 50 lifetimes. Why should a CEO who ruins a company have millions of dollars waiting for them when they leave the company? The Robber Barons are back and have been for a long time. RIM is no different. While the ultra-rich CEO gets richer, the workers suffer the consequences.
    Fortunately RIM is not in the US, our Jobless rate is far lower.

    And for the social conscience buyer, the iPhone is far from the phone of choice with the worker conditions in the manufacturing plants, and the suicide rate.

    When RIM closes all manufacturing in North America and moves it over seas, then you can say they have completely lost touch with the employee base, the fact they haven't moved their head quarters out of Waterloo like many media pundits think they should shows they are keeping the little guys who got them their employed.

    not saying they are not greedy, because they are, but that is capitalism , don't think for a second "free" android isn't part of a larger ad space dominance goal for google
    06-22-11 09:17 AM
  21. j-10's Avatar
    Not only are they both CEO's, they both have a seat on the board! So they aren't going to axe themselves. There is a movement remove them from either the board or the CEO spot by some investors. I'm surprised that this issue isn't brought up more and they only address the co-CEO thing and not the board thing either. They have way too much power for a publicly traded company whether they started the company or not.
    Yup, it is pretty sad. Independent BOD is key for situations like this.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-22-11 09:53 AM
  22. TheMarco's Avatar
    Layoffs are indeed rarely about performance. It seems for large corporations it's way too much of a hassle to actually look at performance records and then cut 'smart' when a round of layoffs has to be done. Usually they simply slash entire units or cut down significantly inside individual units in order to stay focused. For example there may be units working on stuff that isn't really part of the future roadmap (any more). Very often that results in all workers in that unit receiving a pink slip, no matter how talented they may be.

    I'm wishing the laid off RIM employees all the best. It sucks. I have personally survived multiple rounds of layoffs but I've had to watch many very talented friends leave the building, some even in tears. Layoffs suck, period.

    The good news is though: If those affected are indeed talented they should have no problem finding a new job. Even in today's crappy economy.
    06-22-11 11:34 AM
  23. Economist101's Avatar
    And for the social conscience buyer, the iPhone is far from the phone of choice with the worker conditions in the manufacturing plants, and the suicide rate.
    Hmmm. At last check, Foxconn's suicide rate (per 100K) is far lower than China's overall rate. It's also lower than the Canadian rate.

    Also, let's not pretend Apple is Foxconn's only customer (Acer, Amazon, Dell, Nintendo, Sony Ericcson, Intel, Cisco, HP, Nokia, Microsoft). In other words, unless the "social conscience" buyer is also running a desktop computer made by Samsung, Toshiba, Lenovo, Asus or Gateway, with Linux or Chrome as the OS, their "social conscience" can't possibly be clear.
    Last edited by Economist101; 06-22-11 at 11:55 AM. Reason: Clarity
    06-22-11 11:54 AM
  24. Fuzzballz's Avatar
    Please dont get me wrong - thats not what I am saying that they were all slackers. I was simply replying to the above posters comment of "but if RIM actually did this for the right reasons, like getting rid of people that were not following through on their jobs, not performing at a top level, and putting RIM in this situation, I would understand,". If indeed that were the case - which we dont know.
    I think I'm the only person here who understood the point you were making.
    06-22-11 09:19 PM
  25. nomoredroid's Avatar
    Fortunately RIM is not in the US, our Jobless rate is far lower.

    And for the social conscience buyer, the iPhone is far from the phone of choice with the worker conditions in the manufacturing plants, and the suicide rate.

    When RIM closes all manufacturing in North America and moves it over seas, then you can say they have completely lost touch with the employee base, the fact they haven't moved their head quarters out of Waterloo like many media pundits think they should shows they are keeping the little guys who got them their employed.

    not saying they are not greedy, because they are, but that is capitalism , don't think for a second "free" android isn't part of a larger ad space dominance goal for google
    Google is basically part of State Capitalism as the federal government is HIGHLY involved with this company. While RIM is struggling, iPhone is advancing at an alarming rate for corporate entities and government bodies. The POTUS is trying to get iPhone involved at the federal level as well. Corporate tax rates in the USA are the 2nd highest in the world, so do not be shocked if RIM moves their business in the near future. We do not have a business friendly POTUS and companies are moving to a safe haven of corporate tax rates. RIM, as you stated is not an American company, so they will not get the tax breaks other companies are most likely afforded. RIM needs to get on point if they want to remain a major player in the USA. Capitalism isn't greed, people are greedy....there is a major difference in greedy people and open market capitalism, but forget politics for now. Only time will tell if RIM keeps thier mfg in North America but I would bet a ton of money they leave sometime soon. Its just makes sense for their supply chain
    06-24-11 09:06 PM
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