10-01-09 06:54 AM
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  1. ArcticSilver5's Avatar
    I think you are coming at this without thinking about the layout specifically. First of all, the keyboard is small, I know quite a few of us tap keys that are near others sometimes.

    So going back to the currency key first, it makes sense why it is there and has something like a speaker phone button on it. Being next to ENTER, that key becomes protected. Enter can have different effects depending on the application. Best case it puts a new line character, worst case it transmits data in an I'm program.

    So from that standpoint, having a key you often do not use acting as a buffer is a good thing.
    It's a valid reason in theory, but having switched from devices that had the period key next to the enter key, I can honestly say I've never had that problem. Seriously, I make tons of errors in the top half of the keyboard, but never have let my thumb slip off the period key and hit enter (even touch typing). It's kind of like hitting the 0 or sym key instead of the space bar. When your thumbs are bent and angled down, you definitely have a lot more accuracy.

    Amazinglygraceless, you use $ a lot. Do you have this problem?

    Now on to zero. You mention adding a primary key to it. Again, the layout suggests otherwise. What can you add? Let's say zero is consistent with the other numbers and now needs ALT exclusively, what can go under it? All other primary keys are letters, or single functions primarily aimed at editing after a fashion like ENTER, backspace, shift, etc.

    I can't really think of anything else that can be considered primary that fits the bill. Nothing else is really used for typing all that commonly. At least on these devices.
    The period key, for one, or any other punctuation mark. On my BJII, it was the ?. How often do you just type 0 and nothing else? The equal sign was ESSENTIAL when I had to write out calculations, or the & key. I guess business etiquette calls for either writing out "and" or using &. "n" and "+" aren't really looked upon too well (it also gets confusing having all the plus signs on the screen).

    I forgot that not everyone eventually becomes a fast typist. Honestly, my favorite keyboard is easily the iPhone's. I had an iPod Touch 2G and it took a while to get pinpoint accurate, but once I got the hang of it I was typing 60 GWAM. Isn't the fastest texter in the world using an iPhone? Seriously, you don't even have to press the keys, it's just a light tap and you race to the next key. If you watch someone who's used to an iPhone, you won't be able to keep track of their thumbs. It's that $200 + $30*24 (= $720) that made me choose a BB ($100 down, no Data contract). Don't compare it to the Storm, which has a trash keyboard that hinders high-speed typing.

    I just assumed that all business users progressed to the point where they were typing very fast and with great accuracy on their phones, that little things like having to press alt + m vs period made huge difference. I want the exact same or similar typing layout of a desktop keyboard, with non-lettered keys as alts and dedicated period, comma, and question marks.

    Yeah, I think I'm done with this. I'm on vacation (more like putting Ikea together for my sister's apartment) and didn't have anything to do in Cincinnati. Going to Chicago tomorrow and hopefully will be too busy to browse CB.
    Last edited by ArcticSilver5; 08-13-09 at 02:34 AM.
    08-13-09 02:31 AM
  2. Radius's Avatar
    I do hit the SYM key sometimes, big fingers. I am not the only one. I know if I was near the ENTER key I would hit it more often, just like I sometimes hit $ when going for the period.

    And I am very fast when typing on this thing, and pressing ALT does not slow me down in the slightest. I am perfectly capable of thinking ahead while typing and already be moving my fingers into position for the ALT presses I need without even thinking about it.

    I just think it's what you get used to. You can train yourself for anything so hitting period in this case does not cause slowdown. I think perhaps the period being where it is amounts to another layout consistency issue. Looking at the keyboard, all bottom row keys are single purpose. I am thinking that is entirely by design.

    The development process RIM went through to decide, test and refine the keyboard would have been enormous and probably cost tens of thousands of dollars at least. And at the end of the day I have never really heard many people complain about it. If there was a rash of negative feedback, they'd spend the $100K to change it I am sure but I think overall it works.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-13-09 02:41 AM
  3. cavingjan's Avatar
    If it gets changed, you will have the same thing that happened on the Treo when it changed from the 650 to the 700p. No amount of complaints from the existing user base. New users didn't have a problem but the people migrating from an older Treo had major issues with it. And that was simply moving the menu key a more recognizable position (first key on the bottom row).
    08-13-09 07:09 AM
  4. Devlyn16's Avatar
    Argh, don't even get me started on this. Ok, I can't control myself, but I'll keep it brief.

    1. Most people are right-handed
    2. Because of the different motions used by the steering hand and the shifting hand, whichever handedness a person exhibits should be their shifting hand. The other hand should be their steering hand.
    3. For most people, this means steering with their left hand and shifting with their right hand is preferred. The inverse is true for left-handed people.
    4. Brits originated left lane traffic in the middle ages and everyone followed suit. Well, people started thinking for themselves and realized that fewer accidents would occur if everyone drove on the right side, and that it was easier for right-handed people to drive on the right side and if they had a left-seat.




    Right lane driving is supported by objective scientific evidence. Left lane driving is supported by antiquated customs.
    And the metric system is more logical thant standard. The reality is it is still cheaper / easier for people to convert to the system they move to than expect the system to change to meet them.

    focusing on cars again : Left hand/right hand shifting, doesn't most of the world use automatic trasnmissions now? thus spending most of the drive with BOTH their hands on the steering wheel (when not typing away on their BlackBerry Smartphones)?




    Didn't Draco Malfoy learn to ride a broom wrong his whole life? Does the fact he did it his whole life make it right? Maybe this comparison wasn't serious enough, but I stopped taking this thread seriously when people stopped giving any reason other than "I don't want it, I won't tell you why."
    I have no idea abbout Malfoy, but I know Batman watched his parents die & even though he used rifles in his early appearances he now is portrayed as shunning guns.

    Did you know that Japanese people drive on the left as well? Do you want to know why?
    I dont need to know why, If i ever find myself driving in Japan I expect i'll spend more time follwoing thier estabished laws and customs than trying to change them to match what I am used to.

    Sorry, for some reason, I take arbitrary inefficiency personally. Why should I be made to suffer for no reason if I don't gain anything from it? Why should I be made to suffer if NO ONE gains anything from it? And of course: why should ANYONE be made to suffer if no one gains from it?
    Honestly I can't help but read this as very self-centered.

    That about wraps up my observations on this "discussion"
    08-13-09 12:00 PM
  5. ArcticSilver5's Avatar
    And the metric system is more logical thant standard. The reality is it is still cheaper / easier for people to convert to the system they move to than expect the system to change to meet them.*

    focusing on cars again : Left hand/right hand shifting, doesn't most of the world use automatic transmissions now? thus spending most of the drive with BOTH their *hands on the steering wheel (when not typing away on their BlackBerry Smartphones)?
    No, most the world do not use automatic transmissions. It costs more, so in any nonwestern country, auto is a luxury. *
    I have no idea abbout Malfoy, but I know Batman watched his parents die & even though he used rifles in his early appearances he now is portrayed as *shunning guns.
    Guns and Batman are a question of morals, not efficiency.*
    I dont need to know why, If i ever find myself driving in Japan I expect i'll spend more time follwoing thier estabished laws and customs than trying to change them to match what I am used to.
    Again, this isn't an issue of culture clash. It's a matter of efficiency. I know you don't care about other peoples' culture, you just want to get in, get out, and if someone makes a mistake, well heck, if it doesn't affect you then why should it matter at all? I'm a little different. If I were doing something the old-fashioned way and you knew how to do it better, do you think I would be calling you narrow-minded for (1) explaining why you think it's better, (2) listening to why I do it a certain way, and then (3) providing evidence as to why it's better?*



    Honestly I can't help but read this as very self-centered.*

    That about wraps up my observations on this "discussion"
    You're right, it does sound self-centered :eyesroll:. How would I know that it DOES affect people, as only two posts in this entire thread give ANY reason why it affects them and neither of them provided experiences with other devices. Please, tell me how it affects YOU, because if I give many reasons in every one of my posts and you don't give one other than "Because I said so," then I'm going to assume you're a troll and it doesn't affect you. How hard is it to even make up a reason?

    I'm asking people if any rhyme or reason exists to what what I think is madness. I'm sorry if you don't think I'm entitled to an opinion and inquiry. I don't accept things the way they are unless I know why they are the way they are. It's why I got into biomedical research, but people shouldn't have to "deal" with anything because a solution always exists, we just have to find it.

    I have read everyone's arguments, and tried understand why they thought it was better. I offered my take on why I thought so-and-so is better, and tried to always include objective evidence. I asked multiple times for people to give me a reason. I gave several. Self-centered is telling me that despite my countless protests, I should receive no consideration because you don't agree and won't produce a reason. You didn't offer any solutions. You didn't offer any help. You didn't offer how you use the $ key. If you didn't post at all in this thread, no one would know the difference because all you're brought was conflict to what should have been merely a discussion. I have done nothing but ask for opinions and provide my opinions and the facts that lead me to those conclusions. Am I to assume you dislike freedom of speech as well (oh, that gates, he was just ASKING to be arrested).

    Why would I waste my time converting inches into feet, when I can just keep it at inches, ounces, grams, bars, etc. The debate between the two does not compare to this debate. It would hurt either party to switch standards and they wouldn't gain anything because 1 in is still 2.53 cm. It's like how Americans call them fries and Brits call them chips. In theory, there is a principle to the debate. In practice, it doesn't make a difference because nothing is changed. The same does not hold true for the BB keyboard. They aren't simply calling the period a dot and the dollar sign a unit of currency, they've entirely changed how they get used. It's not about the learning curve. If it were, this thread would have died the second someone mentioned that BB is the only keyboard in the world to not dedicate the period key, so EVERY new user goes through this curve. It's about whether or not people have tried the alternative before they make up their minds.

    I would like to see this thread closed, as I do not think replies like strwberryblond's and amazinglygracless's will make another appearance. I just wanted to see why people like the keyboard, and if my efficiency could be increased without affecting theirs.
    08-13-09 02:13 PM
  6. DYERVARRART's Avatar
    Hi

    I've looked a trailer for the "2012". I was interested in this theme.
    Please advise me a good site on this topic.
    And what do you think about the end of the world 2012.

    Thanks.
    10-01-09 06:54 AM
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