1. BBHermes's Avatar
    Greetings,

    Came across this:

    https://www.darkmatter.ae/KATIM
    https://www.darkmatter.ae/katim/katim-phone/
    https://www.darkmatter.ae/katim/katim-r01/

    Katim Phone uses a "hardened" Android, Katim R01 uses "Katim OS" - apparently the same thing ("KATIM OS hardened Android™ 8.1").

    ==============
    KATIM® stands for silence in Arabic.

    It’s a fitting name for our innovative range of end-to-end secure communications solutions,

    because the only thing more secure is silence.
    ==============

    If this project is successful, it invites the question as to why BlackBerry could not have developed the market Katim is trying to reach. Clearly Katim's investors saw an opportunity.

    Could not find a price for Katim Phone/R01: Does anyone here have any info?

    Also features its own Katim Email and Katim Messenger.

    If the Key2 turns out to be the final BlackBerry-branded phone: Could Katim be the successor to BlackBerry phones?

    Still using a Z10 here, so curious to see what @bb10adopter111 thinks of this: Could Katim Phone/R01 replace his Z10?

    In any case, there seems to be an air of mystery surrounding this project: Kindly post anything you find out to this thread!
    Last edited by BBHermes; 12-20-19 at 09:00 AM. Reason: Blackberry -> BlackBerry
    12-20-19 08:56 AM
  2. Bla1ze's Avatar
    Could Katim be the successor to BlackBerry phones?
    No, because it already suffers from some of the same issues BlackBerry users don't like.

    - Running Android 8.1 and no sign of update.
    - It's from a relatively unknown company with unknown update practices.
    - Has no physical keyboard.
    12-20-19 09:20 AM
  3. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Well DarkMatter seems to be highly skilled at hacking and espionage....
    12-20-19 02:05 PM
  4. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    People have been talking about a privacy-based OS for years, and many have come and gone already, and more inevitably will, but the reality is that every one so far has lost a lot of money for its investors.

    Real privacy requires following a long list of inconvenient security and privacy practices that only a dedicated few are willing to follow, and requires giving up a lot of capabilities and conveniences that almost everyone wants from their phones.

    And the costs of development (both hardware and software) for a smartphone that, say, has a great performing camera, good reception, and good battery life, much less"extras" like NFC payments, wireless charging, face recognition,etc. are quite high, and require a high volume of sales to reach profitability.

    Boeing thought that selling 100k phones was realistic and not overreaching, but they ended up selling about 9k, and folded the division with sizable losses.

    These phones will satisfy a very small amount of people, but most of the people who actually have a genuine interest still won't buy them because they just don't do enough of the tasks that most people need to get done on their phone - or becomes so inconvenient that being "possible" isn't enough.
    12-20-19 02:12 PM
  5. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    People have been talking about a privacy-based OS for years, and many have come and gone already, and more inevitably will, but the reality is that every one so far has lost a lot of money for its investors.

    Real privacy requires following a long list of inconvenient security and privacy practices that only a dedicated few are willing to follow, and requires giving up a lot of capabilities and conveniences that almost everyone wants from their phones.

    And the costs of development (both hardware and software) for a smartphone that, say, has a great performing camera, good reception, and good battery life, much less"extras" like NFC payments, wireless charging, face recognition,etc. are quite high, and require a high volume of sales to reach profitability.

    Boeing thought that selling 100k phones was realistic and not overreaching, but they ended up selling about 9k, and folded the division with sizable losses.

    These phones will satisfy a very small amount of people, but most of the people who actually have a genuine interest still won't buy them because they just don't do enough of the tasks that most people need to get done on their phone - or becomes so inconvenient that being "possible" isn't enough.
    If privacy is the main goal, buy a used iPhone and run it with an alias ID on T-Mobile pre-paid service with another alias for your Apple ID. Pay for stuff using Privacy.com.

    From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.
    12-20-19 02:21 PM
  6. chetmanley's Avatar
    Interesting device - I like the hardware kill switch which is similar to the Librem 5.

    If it comes with Google Services then its a show stopper for me because I'd just stick with the Key2 at that point and keep the keyboard.

    I'd still take Android over iOS because once Google Play is disabled or removed, then Android takes the privacy lead due to the ability to actually do things on the phone like install a firewall, run Tor, and easily inspect applications.

    The iOS version of an app will have the exact same trackers as an Android version of an app. The difference is that with Android, we can actually do something to address it - iOS we cant do anything.
    BBHermes and johnsliderbb like this.
    12-20-19 04:29 PM
  7. StJohnSmythe's Avatar
    Interesting device - I like the hardware kill switch which is similar to the Librem 5.

    If it comes with Google Services then its a show stopper for me because I'd just stick with the Key2 at that point and keep the keyboard.

    I'd still take Android over iOS because once Google Play is disabled or removed, then Android takes the privacy lead due to the ability to actually do things on the phone like install a firewall, run Tor, and easily inspect applications.

    The iOS version of an app will have the exact same trackers as an Android version of an app. The difference is that with Android, we can actually do something to address it - iOS we cant do anything.

    Chet,

    In terms of security and privacy, do you have a view or experience with CopperheadOS, GrapheneOS, SailfishOS or LineageOS?

    I am certain this has come up elsewhere but ca. Or seem to find. Interested in your views
    12-24-19 03:45 AM
  8. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Chet,

    In terms of security and privacy, do you have a view or experience with CopperheadOS, GrapheneOS, SailfishOS or LineageOS?

    I am certain this has come up elsewhere but ca. Or seem to find. Interested in your views
    I’m no Chet, but I’ve read more than once that CopperheadOS is DOA now.
    12-24-19 10:51 PM
  9. chetmanley's Avatar
    Chet,

    In terms of security and privacy, do you have a view or experience with CopperheadOS, GrapheneOS, SailfishOS or LineageOS?

    I am certain this has come up elsewhere but ca. Or seem to find. Interested in your views
    I've actually been doing some reading into Sailfish and Lineage. I'm trying to decide what phone to try. Probably a Sony Xperia X so I could test both.

    It sounds like Sailfish now has encryption, and android 8 support with some limitations (like bb10).

    Lineage would allow full use of android apps, like AFwall and Tor, while sailfish wont have such a straight forward solution, although im sure because it runs Linux, its possible to do both a firewall and system wide tor.

    The hesitation I have with both solutions is that they leave the bootloaders unlocked in order to run the non-oem roms.

    So both options would provide more privacy options than BlackBerry android due to the ability to control what system apps are running and truely delete them from the system vs just disabling them for the user.

    But I think BlackBerry android is still more secure.

    I'm going to try both Sailfish and Lineage and see what the pros and cons are vs BlackBerry android.
    ppeters914 likes this.
    12-24-19 11:11 PM
  10. BBHermes's Avatar
    No, because it already suffers from some of the same issues BlackBerry users don't like.

    - Running Android 8.1 and no sign of update.
    - It's from a relatively unknown company with unknown update practices.
    - Has no physical keyboard.
    The upcoming BlackBerry diaspora is not monolithic. For example, it appears that a significant number of BB users have moved on to touch screens and the physical keyboard is not the deal breaker it once was. Besides the keyboard, a significant factor that made BB so special was its communications security suite (phone, email, and ,messaging) for corporations and enterprises. That appears to be exactly the niche Katim is aiming for.

    As for updates: It seems the company is keeping its cards very close to its chest. I'm sure that answers are provided to their customers. As for "relatively unknown company", every business has to start somewhere.

    In any case, aside from the absence of a physical keyboard, Katim phone + security suite seems to be as blackberry-esque as one could expect in these times.. The main downside is that it appears that they do not market to the consumer/prosumer market, only governments and enterprises. But, again, that was BB's original clientele. So the analogy is perfectly relevant.

    Still trying to track down prices for these handsets -- one wonders how they manage to keep that secret too, lol..
    ppeters914 likes this.
    12-25-19 12:22 AM
  11. BBHermes's Avatar
    Interesting device - I like the hardware kill switch which is similar to the Librem 5.

    If it comes with Google Services then its a show stopper for me because I'd just stick with the Key2 at that point and keep the keyboard.

    I'd still take Android over iOS because once Google Play is disabled or removed, then Android takes the privacy lead due to the ability to actually do things on the phone like install a firewall, run Tor, and easily inspect applications.

    The iOS version of an app will have the exact same trackers as an Android version of an app. The difference is that with Android, we can actually do something to address it - iOS we cant do anything.
    It will be interesting to see how Katim handles Google Services..

    And this is the best argument I've seen for Android over iOS. I suppose that, if and when it's time to leave BB behind, will probably go for some degree of de-googled Android over the tyrannic rigidity that constitutes iOS.
    12-25-19 12:32 AM

Similar Threads

  1. My Classic is low on space,how do I free some space
    By Denuboy_18 in forum BlackBerry Classic
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-22-20, 02:50 AM
  2. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 12-26-19, 09:16 AM
  3. BB World and others from 31 december
    By berryoz in forum BlackBerry 10 OS
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 12-24-19, 01:02 AM
  4. Basic android questions
    By scubafan in forum Android Apps
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 12-21-19, 12:00 AM
  5. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 12-19-19, 07:42 PM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD