[Dave Bourque]

May the Force be with BlackBerry.

But how is this relevant to what we were talking about? I thought you implied that Hub and Flow are addictive enough to make them super appealing to consumers. My point is that there have been platforms with similar features already and those features alone couldn't save them.

Because its a bit more complex than this. If BB10 continues to improve their dev tools to expand the platform, resurrect marketing,etc these things all add up. You can't point to one thing as the road block.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141

[bekkay]

Because its a bit more complex than this. If BB10 continues to improve their dev tools to expand the platform, resurrect marketing,etc these things all add up. You can't point to one thing as the road block.

I am not. On the contrary, I believe it was YOUR argument about these two things (or features) that make BB10 stick better than the whole package that some Android phones have to offer.

[wincyUt]

May the Force be with BlackBerry.

But how is this relevant to what we were talking about? I thought you implied that Hub and Flow are addictive enough to make them super appealing to consumers. My point is that there have been platforms with similar features already and those features alone couldn't save those platforms.

I believe he meant that the Hub and Flow are very addictive once a person uses it for a while. And I agree with him. There are many people on this forum that will concur to that. Personally I have never used Meego and webOS so I don't know if they were similar to BB10.

[Dave Bourque]

I am not. On the contrary, I believe it was YOUR argument about these two things (or features) that make BB10 stick better than the whole package that some Android phones have to offer.

Hmm I said these two things is what makes me stick to it because it just works well in a smartphone environment. These are not attractive by themselves just when you had it for a while it makes it difficult to switch because of its ease of use and speed.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141

[bekkay]

I believe he meant that the Hub and Flow are very addictive once a person uses it for a while. And I agree with him. There are many people on this forum that will concur to that. Personally I have never used Meego and webOS so I don't know if they were similar to BB10.

Very similar. Meego had an almost twin of the Hub, while webOS had Synergy. Both were gesture-based with Meego having "live frames" and webOS having "cards" (just like the PBOS that came after).

[bekkay]

Hmm I said these two things is what makes me stick to it because it just works well in a smartphone environment. These are not attractive by themselves just when you had it for a while it makes it difficult to switch because of its ease of use and speed. Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141

I am not disagreeing with you. I am just saying that these two features are hardly enough to make the platform successful given the precedents.

[Dave Bourque]

I am not disagreeing with you. I am just saying that these two features are hardly enough to make the platform successful given the precedents.

http://forums.crackberry.com/showthread.php?t=922102 this is a good example of what I mean.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141

[Solar 77]

Hmm I said these two things is what makes me stick to it because it just works well in a smartphone environment. These are not attractive by themselves just when you had it for a while it makes it difficult to switch because of its ease of use and speed.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141

Agree with you right here. I think it's the most efficient way of addressing notifications which is what makes me stick with BlackBerry as well. For productivity purposes and communication, I love BB10 and its features.

Posted via CB10

[Dave Bourque]

Agree with you right here. I think it's the most efficient way of addressing notifications which is what makes me stick with BlackBerry as well. For productivity purposes and communication, I love BB10 and its features.

Posted via CB10

I literally use android as the "toy". Recently got a nvidia shield with recently upgraded to kitkat lol

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141

[bekkay]

i just made the worst mistake - BlackBerry Forums at CrackBerry.com this is a good example of what I mean.

OK, point well taken.

This and this are good examples of what I mean.

[Dave Bourque]

OK, point well taken.

This and this are good examples of what I mean.

I understand that but I don't see that that happening with BB10 unless the Z3 and Q20 completely fail. All they need to do is make a profit. They don't need to have massive sells like samsung or Apple to make that same profit as they have much more costs to cover. Recent release of a new android dev tool for BB10 is more proof that they are working on making it easier for devs to being their apps over.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141

[anon(5828343)]

If anyone needs to see any further proof of why Chen's "turnaround" strategy is completely convoluted, just have a look at this article:

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bl...0--sector.html

I thought that by jettisoning handset manufacturing to Foxconn, BBRY would be able to take advantage of economies of scale and ensure that it could "manufacture" handsets at a profit or at least not at a loss.

Then, Chen talks about BBRY handsets like his "Classic".

Now, Chen is hedging his bets yet again and, in doing so, at least in my opinion, undermines any future device that BBRY sets out to produce. The simple fact is, aside from the true BBRY loyalists, customers, especially enterprise customers, will find the prospect of a manufacturer no longer producing a device too much of a risk. Some of my clients would drop BBRY because of the cost of transitioning to a new platform if BBRY suddenly stopped producing devices, stopped supporting devices or stopped upgrading devices. So how can this type of commentary from Chen be helpful?

[wincyUt]

These mixed messages from John Chen will soon catch up with him like it did the former CEO. SMH

Posted via CB10

[bekkay]

I understand that but I don't see that that happening with BB10 unless the Z3 and Q20 completely fail. All they need to do is make a profit. They don't need to have massive sells like samsung or Apple to make that same profit as they have much more costs to cover. Recent release of a new android dev tool for BB10 is more proof that they are working on making it easier for devs to being their apps over. Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141

There is no reason for the Z3 or Q20 to be a success. Not one. Unless they price them waaaaay below any comparable offering. In that case, they might sell a few million units, but will take a hit financially.

So, I have an estimate of failure at 99.99%, with 0.01% left for some miracle

[Dave Bourque]

These mixed messages from John Chen will soon catch up with him like it did the former CEO. SMH

Posted via CB10

There is nothing mixed about it... if it doesn't make money hardware sector for BlackBerry is over. if it makes money it will continue to make devices... i dont understand how people are still confused.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141

[birdman_38]

There is nothing mixed about it... if it doesn't make money hardware sector for BlackBerry is over. if it makes money it will continue to make devices... i dont understand how people are still confused.

Sounds like Chen is trying to find a way to get out of it.

[--TommesJay--]

Sounds like Chen is trying to find a way to get out of it.

Not at all. If a division can't be made profitable, you will abandon it. That's generic business 101 and not just a certain plan Chen has for BlackBerry.

[Bbnivende]

Globe and Mail reports his break even point is 10 mill units a year.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using CB Forums mobile app

[--TommesJay--]

Globe and Mail reports his break even point is 10 mill units a year.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using CB Forums mobile app

Just read the piece and I really like what I hear.

?We are not going to spend any more money to maintain the latest version of Angry Birds?

[wincyUt]

There is nothing mixed about it... if it doesn't make money hardware sector for BlackBerry is over. if it makes money it will continue to make devices... i dont understand how people are still confused.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141

I understand that. But how in the world can you tell people to be confident about you or your vision or product etc if you are not confident yourself? IMO this is not the right time to talk about getting out or not getting out of the handset business, just before the eve of launching Z3.
Any "business for sale " sign, whether unintentional or misinterpreted or misquoted is never a good thing.
There is a very good book that I read a while back called "Shut Up and Sell ".



Posted via CB10

[--TommesJay--]

I understand that. But how in the world can you tell people to be confident about you or your vision or product etc if you are not confident yourself? IMO this is not the right time to talk about getting out or not gutting out of the handset business, just before the eve of launching Z3.
Any "business for sale " sign, whether unintentional or misinterpreted or misquoted is never a good thing.
There is a very good book that I read a while back called "Shut Up and Sell ".



Posted via CB10

Define 'product'. Chen/BlackBerry has four of them, four divisions he's working on, the handset division being one of them. Whoever is invested in BlackBerry, is invested in a company with four divisions and it's the company under the bottom line that has to be profitable, whether it's a four-division-company or three-division-company.

[The Big Picture]

John chen said before its gonna take 5-6 quarters. To return to profitably as a whole (which means all divisions of the company)

He has just completed his first full quarter as CEO.

After another full year is the handset business is not profitable he will consider leaving it. Mind you in another full year (4 quarters) we would probably see a full line of new BB10 devices. Z3, Q20, Q30 and at least another full touch.

I think that is fair and realistic.

But many things can change in a year.

10million units estimated by globe and mail is realistic and achievable.

Q10SQN100-3/10.2.1.2228, Z30, Z10, iP5, SGS3

[TgeekB]

There is no reason for the Z3 or Q20 to be a success. Not one. Unless they price them waaaaay below any comparable offering. In that case, they might sell a few million units, but will take a hit financially.

So, I have an estimate of failure at 99.99%, with 0.01% left for some miracle

I have to agree with you. What is different about these new phones that will spur growth?

Posted via my Nexus 10.

[wincyUt]

Define 'product'. Chen/BlackBerry has four of them, four divisions he's working on, the handset division being one of them. Whoever is invested in BlackBerry, is invested in a company with four divisions and it's the company under the bottom line that has to be profitable, whether it's a four-division-company or three-division-company.

We all know that he is managing the four division company strategy but all I'm saying is, it's sometimes better to "Shut Up and Sell ". I watched the actual Reuters interview but guess what, "the ever loving media" is already spinning or twisting what he said. An average consumer accepts whatever they hear from the media, like "BlackBerry is Dead" etc.



Posted via CB10

[wincyUt]

John chen said before its gonna take 5-6 quarters. To return to profitably as a whole (which means all divisions of the company)

He has just completed his first full quarter as CEO.

After another full year is the handset business is not profitable he will consider leaving it. Mind you in another full year (4 quarters) we would probably see a full line of new BB10 devices. Z3, Q20, Q30 and at least another full touch.

I think that is fair and realistic.

But many things can change in a year.

10million units estimated by globe and mail is realistic and achievable.

Q10SQN100-3/10.2.1.2228, Z30, Z10, iP5, SGS3

Again, I don't disagree with anything you have said but IMHO I would rather him just talk less or use more guided words when talking to the media. There are many Spin Doctors out there.

***EDITED**** I guess I am very correct because BlackBerry (AKA John Chen) has now made a press release to rectify things

"Yesterday, Reuters published an article that said I would consider selling our Devices business. My comments were taken out of context."

BlackBerry is Not Leaving the Handset Market: John Chen clarifies | Inside BlackBerry

Posted via CB10