[Hilman76]

I think it will be the z50 all touch. That's the device he said in a interview that will win people over. It's going to be a high end spec'd device.

The z50 will be the device to attract new customers. It's going to be 64-Bit Octa-Core or dual core. 4GB memory, 32GB HD, 1080p Super AMOLED display @ 5.2" with high ppi. 13 megapixel camera running 10.3 and sporting a 3000mah battery. BlackBerry is aiming to have this released by Q3 of 2014.

As of now the device to turn BlackBerry around is the Z3. If that phone sells well then BlackBerry is on track and we will see the Z50 happen. BlackBerry is forecasting Q3 2014 release. We have to wait and see how the Z3 is received in the market first. I think its going to do well. Fingers crossed.



Posted by my awesome Z10

I doubt this will entice many people, you pretty much just described the LG G2 that came out in September 2013.

Can you imagine how much that phone would be based on BB's current pricing scheme lol.





Sent from my LG-D803 using CB Forums mobile app

[TgeekB]

Well it was talked as a new platform that could better challenge the other platforms. I don't recall the "iphone" killer moniker stuck to that, except for the Storm and the Torch 9800.

It was very loud on here, not that it matters now.

They are in for some major changes that many people will not like. Its necessary in order to succeed.

Posted via my Nexus 10.

[keypad]

Oh really? Then why does he keep talking about devices and changing OS's? The problem is, like you, after he first opened his mouth, I also thought it wouldn't be about devices. Then his gums kept flapping and it, in fact, is about devices -- albeit BBRY will no longer sell devices at a loss (as if Apple or Samsung were selling devices at a loss).

Mr Chen is in a very tricky spot.

The hardware division is making a loss, but, the revenue it does bring in, is stemming the bleeding wounds BlackBerry have.

If he shuts down the hardware business now, we movie title will read ' BlackBerrys ship has finally sunk' or ' Titanic 2, the Black iceberg revenge. '

He has to seem positive about devices and at the same time slowly exit the hardware business, giving BlackBerry time to to implement new software and services strategy's (easier sad than done).

BlackBerrys future (like everyone elses) is in the cloud.

Don't get me wrong, they do hardware well, but this market is now so fluid, that only the big boys and the quick moving startups, can hang on to this runaway train.

Logic tells me that the hardware game is no longer playable for BlackBerry, and sooner rather than later, they need to refocus their efforts on becoming a major cloud player, utilising their encryption systems, to forge a way forward in this unnerving environment.

Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!

[badiyee]

Mr Chen is in a very tricky spot.

The hardware division is making a loss, but, the revenue it does bring in, is stemming the bleeding wounds BlackBerry have.

If he shuts down the hardware business now, we movie title will read ' BlackBerrys ship has finally sunk' or ' Titanic 2, the Black iceberg revenge. '

He has to seem positive about devices and at the same time slowly exit the hardware business, giving BlackBerry time to to implement new software and services strategy's (easier sad than done).

BlackBerrys future (like everyone elses) is in the cloud.

Don't get me wrong, they do hardware well, but this market is now so fluid, that only the big boys and the quick moving startups, can hang on to this runaway train.

Logic tells me that the hardware game is no longer playable for BlackBerry, and sooner rather than later, they need to refocus their efforts on becoming a major cloud player, utilising their encryption systems, to forge a way forward in this unnerving environment.

Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!

The hardware is never an unplayable game. It just have to be played different. Much more differently than how BlackBerry used to play it.

[birdman_38]

It's been discussed a billion times as to why BB10 is a great OS. To scrap it is to spit on the software engineers.

Exactly. They don't want to hurt the engineer's feelings.

[badiyee]

Exactly. They don't want to hurt the engineer's feelings.

I'm sure they are out there to purposefully hurt shareholder's feelings.


#AmIdoingthisright?

[randall2580]

I think about why Thor ordered so many Z10's and it occurs to me that one of the reasons he had to was that in order to have success at the original price points, he needed that kind of quantity to have the phone make money for them.

Then I see that now, especially for the lower end devices, Foxconn took on the inventory risk - but at what cost to BlackBerry? If you go back and listen to the original news conferences after the ER when Chen announced the partnership he made it very clear that BlackBerry would not be making a large amount on each handset sold. Probably more like a licensing fee for the OS. So, IMHO if the Z3 outsells every BB10 phone to date (not a hard task for sure) I am still not certain that it will mean very much for BlackBerry and their bottom line in the end. 5 million phones might only mean 25, 50, 100 million dollars.

History to date is that BlackBerry has never made a full touch device that has been successful. BlackBerry did not make this device so perhaps Foxconn know better what the Indonesian market wants in a BlackBerry more than BlackBerry does.

As to the Q20 - I know Chen has been hearing from the major enterprises he has been try to save for BlackBerry that he needs to do this and so he should. The Q10 was supposed to sell in the 10's of millions. In it's first year BB10 didn't even do that as a whole in at least some part because BlackBerry didn't honor the requests of their hardest core fans. The phones that were supposed to woo "all my bored friends on their Androids and iPhones" didn't even woo the BlackBerry faithful in very large part. They have to try something different if they want to stay in the handset biz.

Again IMHO if the Q20 doesn't sell - i believe that will be a last draw for the hardware division and it will be solely outsourced to 3rd parties.

[badiyee]

I think about why Thor ordered so many Z10's and it occurs to me that one of the reasons he had to was that in order to have success at the original price points, he needed that kind of quantity to have the phone make money for them.

Then I see that now, especially for the lower end devices, Foxconn took on the inventory risk - but at what cost to BlackBerry? If you go back and listen to the original news conferences after the ER when Chen announced the partnership he made it very clear that BlackBerry would not be making a large amount on each handset sold. Probably more like a licensing fee for the OS. So, IMHO if the Z3 outsells every BB10 phone to date (not a hard task for sure) I am still not certain that it will mean very much for BlackBerry and their bottom line in the end. 5 million phones might only mean 25, 50, 100 million dollars.

History to date is that BlackBerry has never made a full touch device that has been successful. BlackBerry did not make this device so perhaps Foxconn know better what the Indonesian market wants in a BlackBerry more than BlackBerry does.

As to the Q20 - I know Chen has been hearing from the major enterprises he has been try to save for BlackBerry that he needs to do this and so he should. The Q10 was supposed to sell in the 10's of millions. In it's first year BB10 didn't even do that as a whole in at least some part because BlackBerry didn't honor the requests of their hardest core fans. The phones that were supposed to woo "all my bored friends on their Androids and iPhones" didn't even woo the BlackBerry faithful in very large part. They have to try something different if they want to stay in the handset biz.

Again IMHO if the Q20 doesn't sell - i believe that will be a last draw for the hardware division and it will be solely outsourced to 3rd parties.

That depends.

I am rather, how should i put it... inclined to look at performance of each individual products as separate line up, not connected by another device.

I mean a car company does things like you got a sedan category, truck category, van category... The same way that BlackBerry is doing the Z3 and the Q20. I am at doubt to start looking at these devices as "oh if Z3 sells 200k units, therefore the Q20 must sell 400k units because its high end!"

[birdman_38]

I think it will be the z50 all touch. That's the device he said in a interview that will win people over. It's going to be a high end spec'd device.

The z50 will be the device to attract new customers. It's going to be 64-Bit Octa-Core or dual core. 4GB memory, 32GB HD, 1080p Super AMOLED display @ 5.2" with high ppi. 13 megapixel camera running 10.3 and sporting a 3000mah battery. BlackBerry is aiming to have this released by Q3 of 2014.

John Chen gave no indication of that in the earnings call. He only indicated there will be three keyboard models in the next 18 months.

[aha]

For every low end device that was successful, there was a high end device of the same series that was heavily advertised. Z3's high end brother Z30 did not make a big splash in the market.

The notion of classic devices such as Q20, is to make the transition smoother for OS7 device owners. The assumption was, the reason we don't see BB10 device sell well is because OS7 users didn't want to update.

Well, it is true that BB10 device doesn't sell well. It?s also true BB7 device sells better than BB10 devices. But, is it the belt, or the functionality of BB7 making BB7 more attractive to users? Or is it simply the price of BB7 devices? Like $0 for a device like Bold!

I'm just saying, maybe what the market welcomes, is a $400 Z30 off contract, instead of a $600 Q20, or a $200 Z3.







Posted via CB10 with Z30 on 10.2.1.2141

[wincyUt]

[quote=hilman76;10212727]i doubt this will entice many people, you pretty much just described the lg g2 that came out in september 2013.

Can you imagine how much that phone would be based on bb's current pricing scheme lol.
quotsent from my lg-d803 using cb forums mobile app[/qe]

I know you all about lg this lg that, but tell me, does lg g2 really have 4gb ram memory? Please don't let your dislike for bb make you think we are all fools here.. Below is what vagos2006 said

"quote originally posted by vagos2006 view post
i think it will be the z50 all touch. That's the device he said in a interview that will win people over. It's going to be a high end spec'd device.

The z50 will be the device to attract new customers. It's going to be 64-bit octa-core or dual core. 4gb memory, 32gb hd, 1080p super amoled display @ 5.2" with high ppi. 13 megapixel camera running 10.3 and sporting a 3000mah battery. Blackberry is aiming to have this released by q3 of 2014. "

[keypad]

The hardware is never an unplayable game. It just have to be played different. Much more differently than how BlackBerry used to play it.

For other hardware manufacturers, there are other options for CHANGE Strategy's.

They are all drastic.

BlackBerry does not do drastic.

Nokia did drastic.

Motorola did drastic.

Sony did drastic.

HTC, did MEGA DRASTIC.

Are you going to tell me that BlackBerry, can do more drastic than HTC?

Look at the state HTC is in.

Their smartphones are superb, yet, they still cant get a break under the immense weight of apple fan manipulation and Samsungs Hulk like marketing machine.

Think about how the market is now and who is in the slipstream.

Then let me me know if you still believe BlackBerry can still complete in the hardware business against those odds.

Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!

[BigAl_BB9900]

Plenty can go wrong. The Z3 looks to be a nice phone. However, if it's priced too high it'll fail badly.

Indonesians can already buy "real" Android handsets for much less than $200 in a market that is cut-throat and crowded. I'm unconvinced that enough people are willing to pay a premium price for a BB10 handset that can run some Android Apps.

So, lost cause is my vote. Though it's nice to see Chen taking an interest in the Z3 launch. The Z30 launch was notable that nobody from BB HQ could be bothered to attend.

I'm sure that I'll see regular reports of faux sell-outs and stories that make mention of the Z3 selling like hot-cakes here on CB though. Just me, or is that sold-out ploy getting a little old and tired now?

I guess we'll see the truth of Z3's success or otherwise emerge in next quarter's ER.

I completely agree re: your points about price and an overcrowded market (see my highlight above)

Big android manufacturers are using their android phones as a marketing spearhead to promote their other products (eg TV's and other consumer electronics) - Samsung was the first to do this, Sony has started to do this as well - this means that there is even less incentive for these Android manufacturers to turn a real profit on their phones - and many of the android manufacturers have volume production of cheap handsets that BlackBerry can only dream of....... - this means that it is nigh on impossible for BlackBerry to compete on price....

I hope that BlackBerry Marketing have a viable 'cunning plan' to shift a lot of Z3's in SE Asia

Note: other than the Z3, I expect the real future of the BlackBerry handsets division to be firmly focussed back on business & government (back where it started before consumer mobile phones really took off) - hopefully there will soon be some well reported security incidents with iOS and Android to highlight that the only viable secure phone is a BlackBerry!

[randall2580]

That depends.

I am rather, how should i put it... inclined to look at performance of each individual products as separate line up, not connected by another device.

I mean a car company does things like you got a sedan category, truck category, van category... The same way that BlackBerry is doing the Z3 and the Q20. I am at doubt to start looking at these devices as "oh if Z3 sells 200k units, therefore the Q20 must sell 400k units because its high end!"

I actually think that BlackBerry can sell fewer Q20's and be more successful at it because it's all theirs. But then there is the risk and can they sell enough to keep the build cost down.

[badiyee]

For other hardware manufacturers, there are other options for CHANGE Strategy's.

They are all drastic.

BlackBerry does not do drastic.

Nokia did drastic.

Motorola did drastic.

Sony did drastic.

HTC, did MEGA DRASTIC.

Are you going to tell me that BlackBerry, can do more drastic than HTC?

Look at the state HTC is in.

Their smartphones are superb, yet, they still cant get a break under the immense weight of apple fan manipulation and Samsungs Hulk like marketing machine.

Think about how the market is now and who is in the slipstream.

Then let me me know if you still believe BlackBerry can still complete in the hardware business against those odds.

Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!

You forgot, that BlackBerry has changed the way it arranges its devices to be designed, made, produced, and assembled. The way BlackBerry did with the Z3 is fundamentally, radically different from all the previous handsets. Including the legacy ones. Even the idea behind the execution, the design stages, is so fundamentally different that is so evidently clear, I don't know why you're not giving the credit that they have changed their methods. Whether it will bear fruit or not remains to be seen, but then again the OLD metrics of assessing the numerical success with them does not even apply in its entirety for the up and coming Z3 and Q20.

For every low end device that was successful, there was a high end device of the same series that was heavily advertised. Z3's high end brother Z30 did not make a big splash in the market.

The notion of classic devices such as Q20, is to make the transition smoother for OS7 device owners. The assumption was, the reason we don't see BB10 device sell well is because OS7 users didn't want to update.

Well, it is true that BB10 device doesn't sell well. It?s also true BB7 device sells better than BB10 devices. But, is it the belt, or the functionality of BB7 making BB7 more attractive to users? Or is it simply the price of BB7 devices? Like $0 for a device like Bold!

I'm just saying, maybe what the market welcomes, is a $400 Z30 off contract, instead of a $600 Q20, or a $200 Z3.







Posted via CB10 with Z30 on 10.2.1.2141

I think you're getting something fundamentally wrong. I've quoted your statement , the part that I am challenging.


Firstly, you cannot take the subsidized model, or even T-Mobile's "rarer" example of "buy-the-device-with-us-and-pay-all-over-the-length-of-two-years" model as the gold standard that BlackBerry will apply globally. This is fundamentally wrong. Telco alliances and individual nations have their own ways of channel distributions. But basing your comments off that one assumption is dangerously flawed to the very core.

Secondly, the Z3 and the Q20 are both catered to two very different set of customers, and they do not even share the same hardware. There is a fundamental difference compared to the older design language and design philosophy of designing for different set of customers. This is because BlackBerry has used a different approach, therefore the old metrics cannot be applied in its entirety, and even in the case of the Q20, it wasn't just simply the act of putting in the toolbelt (as far as whatever little that was extracted on the interview with John Chen) on the Q10. Else they could have just introduced a software update where they just slap in a virtual toolbelt and voila (leave it to market forces)

I actually think that BlackBerry can sell fewer Q20's and be more successful at it because it's all theirs. But then there is the risk and can they sell enough to keep the build cost down.

They can. Its because of the fact that the hardware is not shared, (as in the innards) and the production agreement between BlackBerry and Winstron / Foxconn (these are 2 partners still with BlackBerry, not sure about others) are not on the previous terms of "must buy this certain amount" obligation by BlackBerry.

[Hilman76]

[QUOTE=wincyUt;10212936]

i doubt this will entice many people, you pretty much just described the lg g2 that came out in september 2013.

Can you imagine how much that phone would be based on bb's current pricing scheme lol.

quotsent from my lg-d803 using cb forums mobile app[/qe]

I know you all about lg this lg that, but tell me, does lg g2 really have 4gb ram memory? Please don't let your dislike for bb make you think we are all fools here.. Below is what vagos2006 said

"quote originally posted by vagos2006 view post
i think it will be the z50 all touch. That's the device he said in a interview that will win people over. It's going to be a high end spec'd device.

The z50 will be the device to attract new customers. It's going to be 64-bit octa-core or dual core. 4gb memory, 32gb hd, 1080p super amoled display @ 5.2" with high ppi. 13 megapixel camera running 10.3 and sporting a 3000mah battery. Blackberry is aiming to have this released by q3 of 2014. "

If you actually read my post I said they pretty much described the G2, emphasis on the pretty much since you seem to have missed that.

Let's review the G2 and their dream specs shall we:

32 GB, check
1080p 5.2" screen, check
High resolution ppi screen, check
13 megapixel camera, check
3,000 mah battery, check

Sounds pretty similar to me, having said that, the G2 would need 4 GB of RAM if it used BB10 lol.





Sent from my Nexus 7 using CB Forums mobile app

[keypad]

[QUOTE=badiyee;10213060]You forgot, that BlackBerry has changed the way it arranges its devices to be designed, made, produced, and assembled. The way BlackBerry did with the Z3 is fundamentally, radically different from all the previous handsets. Including the legacy ones. Even the idea behind the execution, the design stages, is so fundamentally different that is so evidently clear, I don't know why you're not giving the credit that they have changed their methods. Whether it will bear fruit or not remains to be seen, but then again the OLD metrics of assessing the numerical success with them does not even apply in its entirety for the up and coming Z3 and Q20.

The Z3 will do what it does and so will the Q20.

But what the real question is, is, will these products grow market share significantly?

My opinion is no.

Its a little to late for Manchester United to come back from a 7/1score line, against Chelsea or Manchester City, when there is only 8 minutes left in the game.

The Best that BlackBerry can do right now, is to produce an extremely high end smartphone, price it through the roof (maybe �649) make and sell in Nexus 5 like numbers and bow out having made the best phone on the market, like a champ.

Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!

[badiyee]

[QUOTE=keypad;10213253]

You forgot, that BlackBerry has changed the way it arranges its devices to be designed, made, produced, and assembled. The way BlackBerry did with the Z3 is fundamentally, radically different from all the previous handsets. Including the legacy ones. Even the idea behind the execution, the design stages, is so fundamentally different that is so evidently clear, I don't know why you're not giving the credit that they have changed their methods. Whether it will bear fruit or not remains to be seen, but then again the OLD metrics of assessing the numerical success with them does not even apply in its entirety for the up and coming Z3 and Q20.

The Z3 will do what it does and so will the Q20.

But what the real question is, is, will these products grow market share significantly?

My opinion is no.

Its a little to late for Manchester United to come back from a 7/1score line, against Chelsea or Manchester City, when there is only 8 minutes left in the game.

The Best that BlackBerry can do right now, is to produce an extremely high end smartphone, price it through the roof (maybe �649) make and sell in Nexus 5 like numbers and bow out having made the best phone on the market, like a champ.

Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!

As a Liverpool F.C ardent supporter... Since you're using football as an analogy...

Istanbul 2005. Champions League.

A.C Milan vs Liverpool F.C


The product Z3 is not designed to do as you say, grow market share significantly.
And neither the Q20 is.

But I do know for a fact that the Z3 is designed with the idea to make profit.


add on: you're also asking the company to do a swansong, with a final device, and commit a hara-kiri style suicide job.
How about, NO.
I'll prefer to see this company continue to exist.

[keypad]

[QUOTE=badiyee;10213266]

As a Liverpool F.C ardent supporter... Since you're using football as an analogy...

Istanbul 2005. Champions League.

A.C Milan vs Liverpool F.C


The product Z3 is not designed to do as you say, grow market share significantly.
And neither the Q20 is.

But I do know for a fact that the Z3 is designed with the idea to make profit.

T� che lol.

Im not even a footballing guy so will stay away from that line of argument in the future.

On a serious note, I truly hope that BlackBerry Can prove me wrong.

I accept the Mr Chen is a different leader and have said on the forums before that I like the way he speaks and that he has had a positive impact on BlackBerry, since his appointment.

So im gonna stay un optimistically cautious and hope BlackBerry can pull this off.

Im really impressed by the operating system and really like the Z10 which for a physical Qwerty keypad lover, is high praise indeed.

BlackBerry just need to come off their high horse and kik it with the commoners for a while.

Eat like we eat.

Drink like we drink.

Spend like we spend.

Then maybe, they just might start to see an opening at the end of the tunnel.

Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!

[aha]

The product Z3 is not designed to do as you say, grow market share significantly.
And neither the Q20 is.

There! So they are devices needed for survival, not the devices for turn-around.

Posted via CB10 with Z30 on 10.2.1.2141

[badiyee]

There! So they are devices needed for survival, not the devices for turn-around.

Posted via CB10 with Z30 on 10.2.1.2141

I am not exactly sure if its a choice between survival or turn-around. On the realm of speculation, I doubt that these 2 are even on the "check list of possibilities".

I believe that the design had 2 purposes, (in the realm of speculation)

1. To see how well Foxconn and BlackBerry can work together.
2. benefitting both BlackBerry and Foxconn to have a "assembled in Indonesia" device to make a quick buck on the local market (possibly to introduce to market to new-to-smartphone adopters, or BBOStoBB10-adopters, or both. Emphasis on 'assembled in indonesia'. For both Foxconn and BlackBerry needs to 'test and validify' the investment made.

[aha]

I think you're getting something fundamentally wrong. I've quoted your statement , the part that I am challenging.


Firstly, you cannot take the subsidized model, or even T-Mobile's "rarer" example of "buy-the-device-with-us-and-pay-all-over-the-length-of-two-years" model as the gold standard that BlackBerry will apply globally. This is fundamentally wrong. Telco alliances and individual nations have their own ways of channel distributions. But basing your comments off that one assumption is dangerously flawed to the very core.

Secondly, the Z3 and the Q20 are both catered to two very different set of customers, and they do not even share the same hardware. There is a fundamental difference compared to the older design language and design philosophy of designing for different set of customers. This is because BlackBerry has used a different approach, therefore the old metrics cannot be applied in its entirety, and even in the case of the Q20, it wasn't just simply the act of putting in the toolbelt (as far as whatever little that was extracted on the interview with John Chen) on the Q10. Else they could have just introduced a software update where they just slap in a virtual toolbelt and voila (leave it to market forces)

Are you saying that, when BB7 devices won in Q4 in terms of number of device sold, they were sold at the same price points as Z10, Q10 or Z30?

I don't have that information but I doubt that was the case. That?s why I didn't say BB7 won due to low prices, but raised it as a question in my last post.

If what I suspected was correct, BB7 devices indeed sold at a lower price than BB10 phones, then my original question still holds the ground:

maybe BB10 sales was poor simply because their prices were not attractive enough, not because they don't have the belt, and not because there is a bigger demand for BB7 devices.

:P




Posted via CB10 with Z30 on 10.2.1.2141

[early2bed]

People who look to the announced phones for a turnaround are really grasping at straws. Just take a step back and take a look at what we have: 1) A new phone that is designed and launched as a 3G phone in Indonesia; 2) A phone on the new OS that features retro hardware buttons; 3) A re-launch of a discontinued BBOS model.

None of these seem designed to turnaround the smartphone business, rather they seem to be aimed at slowing a decline and transitioning the hardware business to prepare for eventual purchase by Foxconn.

[Dave Bourque]

I think it will be the z50 all touch. That's the device he said in a interview that will win people over. It's going to be a high end spec'd device.

The z50 will be the device to attract new customers. It's going to be 64-Bit Octa-Core or dual core. 4GB memory, 32GB HD, 1080p Super AMOLED display @ 5.2" with high ppi. 13 megapixel camera running 10.3 and sporting a 3000mah battery. BlackBerry is aiming to have this released by Q3 of 2014.

As of now the device to turn BlackBerry around is the Z3. If that phone sells well then BlackBerry is on track and we will see the Z50 happen. BlackBerry is forecasting Q3 2014 release. We have to wait and see how the Z3 is received in the market first. I think its going to do well. Fingers crossed.

Posted by my awesome Z10

Where does he say this!?!??

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141

[The Big Picture]

People who look to the announced phones for a turnaround are really grasping at straws. Just take a step back and take a look at what we have: 1) A new phone that is designed and launched as a 3G phone in Indonesia; 2) A phone on the new OS that features retro hardware buttons; 3) A re-launch of a discontinued BBOS model.

None of these seem designed to turnaround the smartphone business, rather they seem to be aimed at slowing a decline and transitioning the hardware business to prepare for eventual purchase by Foxconn.

1) a low end phone is exactly how microsoft/nokia made headway in the past year.

Q10SQN100-3/10.2.1.2228, Z30, Z10, iP5, SGS3