02-22-14 11:44 PM
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  1. acovey's Avatar
    I have had similar experience with some Telus stores as well as most other cell phone outlets in Red Deer Alberta. I mention Telus as I am a CUSTOMER and expect better treatment when I ask to see a Z30 and am told I don't really want any BB product. I am 67 years old and have a 9810 (my 4th. BB) and have tried my daughters iphone (impossible to type on with my shakey old fingers) I have read here that the large screen of a Z30 may work for me BUT the sales reps spend more time trying to steer me away rather then demo what I ask to see. I still have a year left on an old three year contract and hope for a BB10 slider or a Q with a fulll screen but will I find someone to sell me one? I wish Canadians could buy direct from BB, and leave the cell vendors out of the purchase decission.
    rzanger and canuckvoip like this.
    02-22-14 04:06 PM
  2. ray689's Avatar
    You see this is the problem. I am a Blackberry user and that can be a very frustrating thing because of the whole droid/apple/MS/BB fanboy deal. I am well aware of the phone wars but quite frankly I don't really care. It is just a little disturbing that you have to fight for what you want. I am mostly concerned that if people don't push back we will have no more Blackberry and I guess there probably won't be any need for Crackberry either. I posted on here because this is supposed to be a Blackberry site and I really didn't think it was appropriate to take to social media and have to deal with all the trolls. All that being said that is why it wasn't a rant. I will look for the rant forum though and then I will do some ranting. You will easily be able to tell the difference.
    Don't worry, this site has gone beyond just being a BlackBerry fan site. Most fan sites would not out up with has been happening here but money and traffic trump all. I guess people forget how they made it and got wealthy in the first place....on the back of the same people who are being pushed out.


    Posted via CB10
    rzanger likes this.
    02-22-14 04:10 PM
  3. TgeekB's Avatar
    Sorry... not going to bite on that obvious deflection.
    Its not a deflection, its the truth. Blackberry is fighting to catch up, popularity wise, because they sat back and watched Apple and Android zip by them.

    Posted via my Nexus 10.
    mikeo007 likes this.
    02-22-14 04:10 PM
  4. Jerky223's Avatar
    Keep in mind a few things when dealing with wireless carriers that sell iPhones. Most of them are under agreements with Apple to sell x amount per month average. This was the sticking point we saw from carriers in Russia and recently with China Mobile.

    Most likely SaskTel like other carriers push iPhones to keep the average up to not get in trouble with Apple.

    Google:
    "European iphone carrier agreements"

    iMore article:
    Apple needs China Mobile more than China Mobile needs Apple
    rzanger likes this.
    02-22-14 04:19 PM
  5. rzanger's Avatar
    I have had similar experience with some Telus stores as well as most other cell phone outlets in Red Deer Alberta. I mention Telus as I am a CUSTOMER and expect better treatment when I ask to see a Z30 and am told I don't really want any BB product. I am 67 years old and have a 9810 (my 4th. BB) and have tried my daughters iphone (impossible to type on with my shakey old fingers) I have read here that the large screen of a Z30 may work for me BUT the sales reps spend more time trying to steer me away rather then demo what I ask to see. I still have a year left on an old three year contract and hope for a BB10 slider or a Q with a fulll screen but will I find someone to sell me one? I wish Canadians could buy direct from BB, and leave the cell vendors out of the purchase decission.
    I've seen way too many posts about this problem. this could be perceived as anecdote but it is actually really happening. It's not just one carrier/retailer but wide spread. This is why I just fight the fight one at a time that way they never see it coming. Keeps em on their toes! BTW I was also waiting for a slider but decided on a Q as opposed to a touchscreen after coming from the torch only because whenever I needed to type I would always slide it open. Had to get a Z30 to start my car though. don't get me started on OnStar lol.
    ray689 and acovey like this.
    02-22-14 04:23 PM
  6. rzanger's Avatar
    Keep in mind a few things when dealing with wireless carriers that sell iPhones. Most of them are under agreements with Apple to sell x amount per month average. This was the sticking point we saw from carriers in Russia and recently with China Mobile.

    Most likely SaskTel like other carriers push iPhones to keep the average up to not get in trouble with Apple.

    Google:
    "European iphone carrier agreements"

    iMore article:
    Apple needs China Mobile more than China Mobile needs Apple
    This is the really sad part. If you live in Saskatchewan SaskTel is really the best choice for a carrier because of pricing and coverage. Just maybe it would have been nice to see a company really stand up to Apple.
    02-22-14 04:30 PM
  7. Jerky223's Avatar
    It took a major Russian carrier and the largest one in China to stand-up to Apple.
    In SK there seems to be Rogers, Telus, Bell, and SaskTel (not counting the subsidiaries). If SaskTel stood-up to Apple, Apple still has the other three (parent companies) to offer the devices.

    If they do have a crappy contract with Apple, the sales reps would have no choice but to push the iPhone. Unfortunately the easiest targets customers to convince are people looking to BlackBerry's with the "no apps" and "almost bankrupt" talking points.
    02-22-14 04:36 PM
  8. richardat's Avatar
    I only said the iPhone would be a good first recommendation for many people with the description of the person OP referred to. I then said it obviously wasn't the best choice in this case, and that there should have been no trouble exchanging them.

    (Italics) Guessing at what the reason was by what he might or might not know is useless, and just stereotyping against your experience with others. We's all seen people who excel and those who suck within the same businesses.




    Again.. I'm not sure how much more clear I can make this: It obviously wasn't the best choice in this case, and that there should have been no trouble exchanging them. Stop trying to make my responses some negative, anti-bb slam. I'm flat out agreeing that you should have had no trouble with the exchange. I also agree that if he did the job right th first time (which we have little info on) maybe the Q would have been bought then.

    However, in general an iPhone makes a good start for people with the issues described. Is that such an impossible thing to acccept? Maybe the guy didn't have an evil, no BB sales policy, but recommended something he genuinely thought would be better for this person.
    Appreciate what your trying to do here bp3, but think you know it won't work with the people you're talking to. I too cringe when the madness of this forum spills out into real world ugliness - likely on people guilty of nothing malevolent, but its happened and will probably get worse given the environment.

    People here are ready and encouraging each other to tar and feather. Is this BC they know and love, and trust , the op and his father? No, its all BC they perceieve bb being slighted - that's enough for them - case closed! Acting like jerk completely justified and encouraged! Where's my bat and brass knuckles??

    Consider that not only is not just plausible, (it is in fact likely: that anysales rep would dissuade people from bb for altruistic reasons - heck even some of the most extreme here will admit that recommending bb is ,.. Dangerous at best - if you truly have the best intentions for the other person, but also consider that - even if we blindly believe the op (and he clearly has more than one emotional bias at play here - st least one completely legitimate and another equally illegitimate) all of this is based on a second Hand, one-sided story from an elderly man suffering from mental deterioration who is now incompetent to deal with this situation.

    As much an inconvenience it is for the op to deal with this and as far as he must drive, He should consider that he knows his father is not capable of dealing with such matters anymore. The clerks had a very elderly man with mental deterioration , on their hands, they don't know him. they are working in the dark with a man who probably cannot explain himself clearly or with Authority. Whether for all the usual reasons bb isn't advisable for the vast majority right now or whether they had disability options in mind, they may well have steered him away from bb. I think it LEAST likely they thought : alright here's an elderly man we can take advantage of- The perfect opportunity to take one sale away from bb!! Muhuhuhuhahahahaha!!
    I'm sorry for the op's difficulty and his burden but this kind of Real world acting out is just ...ugly and reflects so poorly on fanboys and on the forum.. And indirectly on bb as well. Can promise this: the kind of reactions called for here will certainly make it difficult for the people involved to not have biases toward bb fans in the future- not that it will make any difference to the company outlook lol! Not even sure what non existent product, people think sales people should be pushing right now... But that's another tangent... Carry on!
    mikeo007 and bp3dots like this.
    02-22-14 04:38 PM
  9. rzanger's Avatar
    Its not a deflection, its the truth. Blackberry is fighting to catch up, popularity wise, because they sat back and watched Apple and Android zip by them.

    Posted via my Nexus 10.
    But really that is no excuse for their behaviour. Is it?
    02-22-14 04:49 PM
  10. bigglybobblyboo's Avatar
    OP, I agree with what you said so much I made a thread about it in the past.

    http://forums.crackberry.com/general...llenge-866227/

    Only for some on here to derail it and eventually force it's closure.

    So, after reading it, don't be surprised by some of the comments you are receiving now.

    Sad but true.
    anon(3732391) and Nharzhool like this.
    02-22-14 04:53 PM
  11. ray689's Avatar
    Hey richard, you are over analyzing it. This has nothing to do with recommending BlackBerry or not or whether it's anyone's place to recommend it or whether people are posting because they care about the well being of someone.
    Bottom line is this, a person went in and requested a Q10 and was pushed to an iPhone. He wasn't pushed there because of any reason other than a bias against BlackBerry plain and simple. Everyone knows it, everyone has seen it and unless you come to Saskatchewan and go to a sasktel dealer store and experience it for yourself then everything you said is irrelevant. The facts are there in front of all of our eyes. Sales reps are biased and rarely do what's right for the customer.

    Posted via CB10
    canuckvoip likes this.
    02-22-14 04:53 PM
  12. sixpacker's Avatar
    Hey richard, you are over analyzing it. This has nothing to do with recommending BlackBerry or not or whether it's anyone's place to recommend it or whether people are posting because they care about the well being of someone.
    Bottom line is this, a person went in and requested a Q10 and was pushed to an iPhone. He wasn't pushed there because of any reason other than a bias against BlackBerry plain and simple. Everyone knows it, everyone has seen it and unless you come to Saskatchewan and go to a sasktel dealer store and experience it for yourself then everything you said is irrelevant. The facts are there in front of all of our eyes. Sales reps are biased and rarely do what's right for the customer.

    Posted via CB10
    I think you'll find sales reps have, and always will be, biased. I bet you 3 years back they were pushing blackberries at people for higher commission. Personally I just ignore them and buy what I want. I would also always accompany an elderly relative on any tech purchase to avoid them getting scammed.

    Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!
    bbq10l and app_Developer like this.
    02-22-14 04:59 PM
  13. rzanger's Avatar
    It took a major Russian carrier and the largest one in China to stand-up to Apple.
    In SK there seems to be Rogers, Telus, Bell, and SaskTel (not counting the subsidiaries). If SaskTel stood-up to Apple, Apple still has the other three (parent companies) to offer the devices.

    If they do have a crappy contract with Apple, the sales reps would have no choice but to push the iPhone. Unfortunately the easiest targets customers to convince are people looking to BlackBerry's with the "no apps" and "almost bankrupt" talking points.
    If you look at the options and you use a lot of data then SaskTel is the only option. I personally know people who tried the other carriers but returned to SaskTel with the bills to prove it. If they had to kneel before the mighty Apple then that is a shame. People that have lived in SK their whole lives know how important SaskTel is because of the nature of a small population spread over a large geographical area. We ***** and complain but when it comes to customer service all carriers are basically similar but I shudder to think what we would have without Sasktel.
    02-22-14 05:00 PM
  14. Wiki Cydia's Avatar
    Keep in mind a few things when dealing with wireless carriers that sell iPhones. Most of them are under agreements with Apple to sell x amount per month average. This was the sticking point we saw from carriers in Russia and recently with China Mobile.
    Sort of. Carriers have to commit to a certain number of iPhones in their agreement, so they certainly do push them. But it's not because they may get in trouble with Apple, since Apple's already been paid. They want to sell the phones so they don't get in trouble with their shareholders for agreeing to buy more phones than they can sell.
    rzanger and app_Developer like this.
    02-22-14 05:02 PM
  15. ray689's Avatar
    If you look at the options and you use a lot of data then SaskTel is the only option. I personally know people who tried the other carriers but returned to SaskTel with the bills to prove it. If they had to kneel before the mighty Apple then that is a shame. People that have lived in SK their whole lives know how important SaskTel is because of the nature of a small population spread over a large geographical area. We ***** and complain but when it comes to customer service all carriers are basically similar but I shudder to think what we would have without Sasktel.
    I agree. From what I understand, Sasktel is the only true unlimited data carrier. And they actually have the best network hands down.

    Posted via CB10
    rzanger likes this.
    02-22-14 05:03 PM
  16. ray689's Avatar
    I think you'll find sales reps have, and always will be, biased. I bet you 3 years back they were pushing blackberries at people for higher commission. Personally I just ignore them and buy what I want. I would also always accompany an elderly relative on any tech purchase to avoid them getting scammed.

    Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!
    I agree which is what in trying to tell the two on here who seem to think sales reps actually care and are arguing the fact that this person went in for something and was given a completely different device as being okay.

    Posted via CB10
    02-22-14 05:04 PM
  17. rzanger's Avatar
    Sooo. How do I find the rant forum?
    02-22-14 05:07 PM
  18. bigglybobblyboo's Avatar
    Sooo. How do I find the rant forum?
    I PM'd you...
    02-22-14 05:14 PM
  19. eddy_berry's Avatar
    I get where you are coming from @richardat, I really do. But, there is no need to say that people here are just a bunch of fanboys.

    @bp3dots there is really no point standing up for the sales person. You're kind of asking for trouble. Your argument about having disability apps is pointless. That doesn't mean the iPhone is the only phone that the elderly or disabled peoples can use. That's kind of ridiculous. Also, the screen on a Q10 may be smaller than an iPhone but the resolution is almost the same. That means the icons and the text are the same size. The text size is also adjustable. Lastly, the keyboard is physical. What's hard to see? The iPhones actual keys are not that much bigger in size. I have decent eyesight and I have to look where I am typing on a Z10. I can look away from a Q and keep typing. Also the suggestions above the keyboard is displayed in a large font and easy to see. That being said it seems to me the salesperson was not trying to do OPs pops any favors so I really wouldn't play that game here. It was nice of you to try, but the chances of you being a better salesperson than 99% of salespeople is very high. You may have thought about these things but not many would.

    Either way none of us were there so anything more to add to this is speculation. Just take the OPs word for it and move on and try not to be insulting.
    02-22-14 05:18 PM
  20. bigglybobblyboo's Avatar
    Its not a deflection, its the truth. Blackberry is fighting to catch up, popularity wise, because they sat back and watched Apple and Android zip by them.

    Posted via my Nexus 10.
    Maybe so TGeek, and me and you have disagreed (nicely) in the past, but this is happening again and again and again. And it's not just Canada, I posted in another place today about listening to a rep in the background telling someone I know that 'BlackBerry will be dead in a month' as he was selling him a Samsung.

    Now, this 'BlackBerry will be dead in a month' lie has been going on for at least 12 months, as reported by Canuck previously when he bought his Z10.

    You're (in my experience) a fair minded individual, no matter what phone or platform you ultimately choose, don't you agree that this is unfair?
    canuckvoip likes this.
    02-22-14 05:24 PM
  21. canuckvoip's Avatar
    Its not a deflection, its the truth. Blackberry is fighting to catch up, popularity wise, because they sat back and watched Apple and Android zip by them.

    Posted via my Nexus 10.
    That's deflection again. Nope... not going to bite...
    :>)
    02-22-14 05:37 PM
  22. bbq10l's Avatar
    No that wasn't the point. The point was that they were not interested in even discussing a Q10. It is too easy for elderly people to be intimidated when it comes to technology and unless they have someone there to stand up for them they lose every time.
    Then if the OP was so worried about the possible outcome, he should have done it himself. All the salesman did was try to sell the phone that sells and ignore the one that does not sell. You really can't blame carriers. They push phones that sell and have the lowest returns. BlackBerry is the reason BlackBerry doesn't sell. Period.

    Posted via CB10
    02-22-14 05:42 PM
  23. ray689's Avatar
    Then if the OP was so worried about the possible outcome, he should have done it himself. All the salesman did was try to sell the phone that sells and ignore the one that does not sell. You really can't blame carriers. They push phones that sell and have the lowest returns. BlackBerry is the reason BlackBerry doesn't sell. Period.

    Posted via CB10
    The fact that the phone "sells" does not mean anything in this case. Man what is wrong with you? We're saying someone asked for a specific device and was pushed away from it because of clear bias. That's it. Whether the other phone sells or not is neither here nor there.



    Posted via CB10
    canuckvoip likes this.
    02-22-14 05:51 PM
  24. rzanger's Avatar
    Then if the OP was so worried about the possible outcome, he should have done it himself. All the salesman did was try to sell the phone that sells and ignore the one that does not sell. You really can't blame carriers. They push phones that sell and have the lowest returns. BlackBerry is the reason BlackBerry doesn't sell. Period.

    Posted via CB10
    Seriously. You don't get it. Why should I have to accompany anyone if they want to buy a Blackberry. Isn't the fact that I would have to a sign that the salesperson or their boss is the problem. Don't care what you think of Blackberry because it isn't relevant to this discussion and will just convolute it. They sell Blackberrys. Period
    ray689 likes this.
    02-22-14 05:54 PM
  25. rzanger's Avatar
    Rather than travel 150 miles why don't you just order the f*cking thing online.
    The reason is they are old and live in the country. Until recently the internet was out of reach for them and many others. I wish it could be that easy but not everyone's situation is equal
    02-22-14 06:00 PM
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