06-22-20 08:59 AM
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  1. Grungni's Avatar
    As someone who knows and is comfortable using all modern platforms, my opinion is they all involve compromises, and each of us has to decide which compromises we are willing to live with.

    BB10: Near perfect email work flow, great privacy and security, great keyboards (PKB and VKB), but limited Web browser and no modern apps.

    BlackBerry Android KEY phones: BlackBerry features and PKB, mid-tier hardware and no future

    Android Slabs: Huge app selection and good security, but Byzantine patching, short life cycles, and many privacy issues.

    IOS: frustrating ecosystem lock-ins, awful PKB and MS Exchange work flow, great security, decent privacy and best-in-class long term support.

    Personally, after BB10, I find the choice between Android and Apple to be about what type of bread I want for my **** sandwich. I selected an iPhone because it will offer a better value, meaningfully better privacy and drastically better support over the five years I'll want to get out of my phone.

    Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android
    We were discussing OS customisation and it is widely recognised that Android is more customisable than iOS... You can't really make a bad choice opting for either Android or iOS and you make valid points regarding security and support longevity... Personally I prefer Android for the launcher customisation, the ability to set default apps, the myriad of hardware options and 'your phone' synchronisation with Windows 10... Enjoy your iPhone, they are great devices...
    05-15-20 02:54 PM
  2. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    We were discussing OS customisation and it is widely recognised that Android is more customisable than iOS... You can't really make a bad choice opting for either Android or iOS and you make valid points regarding security and support longevity... Personally I prefer Android for the launcher customisation, the ability to set default apps, the myriad of hardware options and 'your phone' synchronisation with Windows 10... Enjoy your iPhone, they are great devices...
    I'm afraid I won't enjoy my iPhone, any more than I enjoyed my KEYone. I find both pretty awful. They are primarily designed as consumer devices for media consumption, cameras and social networking, and, while I can certainly strip them down and simplify them, they both have really awful UX for high volume MS Exchange-based work flows.

    The iPhone was the right choice for my priorities, but I don't hate it any less than I did my KEYone.

    Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android
    05-15-20 09:57 PM
  3. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I'm afraid I won't enjoy my iPhone, any more than I enjoyed my KEYone. I find both pretty awful. They are primarily designed as consumer devices for media consumption, cameras and social networking, and, while I can certainly strip them down and simplify them, they both have really awful UX for high volume MS Exchange-based work flows.

    The iPhone was the right choice for my priorities, but I don't hate it any less than I did my KEYone.

    Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android
    What iPhone did you end up getting?
    05-15-20 10:01 PM
  4. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    What iPhone did you end up getting?
    My family bought 3 SEs. Comcast offered existing broadband customers the phones for $199 ea. financed free over 24 months, with no per line charge and a ridiculously low $12 for 1 GB shared data. So we are getting

    Three new SEs
    1 GB shared data with unlimited calls and texts
    Free WiFi at Xfinity hotspots
    Apple TV+ for one year
    25Mbps home Internet

    for a grand total of $47.00 a month for two years, then $22 a month after the phones are paid for.

    For my family, my total home Internet and mobile phone fees for the next five+ years will be < $2000. That's about a 90% savings from what I was paying before.

    Obviously 1 Gig of shared data across three phones is minimal, as is the 25 Mbps home broadband, but I will still have my AT&T Gigabit Hotspot and I can adjust the bandwidth and mobile data plans as needed monthly.

    I believe that there is a > 50% chance that BB10 will stop working with Exchange Online before the end of the year, so now I'm prepared. And I'll still be doing most of my work on the Z10 using Wifi while I can.

    Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android
    05-16-20 09:29 AM
  5. howarmat's Avatar
    My family bought 3 SEs. Comcast offered existing broadband customers the phones for $199 ea. financed free over 24 months, with no per line charge and a ridiculously low $12 for 1 GB shared data. So we are getting

    Three new SEs
    1 GB shared data with unlimited calls and texts
    Free WiFi at Xfinity hotspots
    Apple TV+ for one year
    25Mbps home Internet

    for a grand total of $47.00 a month for two years, then $22 a month after the phones are paid for.

    For my family, my total home Internet and mobile phone fees for the next five+ years will be < $2000. That's about a 90% savings from what I was paying before.

    Obviously 1 Gig of shared data across three phones is minimal, as is the 25 Mbps home broadband, but I will still have my AT&T Gigabit Hotspot and I can adjust the bandwidth and mobile data plans as needed monthly.

    I believe that there is a > 50% chance that BB10 will stop working with Exchange Online before the end of the year, so now I'm prepared. And I'll still be doing most of my work on the Z10 using Wifi while I can.

    Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android
    You could also just bump the 1 GB to 3GB for $30. We have 5 lines sung 3 GB for $30. Granted that is a bit more costly per GB than you might be paying for the ATT hotspot.
    05-16-20 04:02 PM
  6. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    You could also just bump the 1 GB to 3GB for $30. We have 5 lines sung 3 GB for $30. Granted that is a bit more costly per GB than you might be paying for the ATT hotspot.
    Yes. We'll use as much data as we want and don't mind paying for it. But, while I'm certainly capable of using 20-30 GB per month, if I'm streaming and downloading via cell data, I only really need 2-400 MB for email, as I'm on WiFi at work and at home (which are the same thing for the foreseeable future!)

    Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android
    05-16-20 04:15 PM
  7. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    My family bought 3 SEs. Comcast offered existing broadband customers the phones for $199 ea. financed free over 24 months, with no per line charge and a ridiculously low $12 for 1 GB shared data. So we are getting

    Three new SEs
    1 GB shared data with unlimited calls and texts
    Free WiFi at Xfinity hotspots
    Apple TV+ for one year
    25Mbps home Internet

    for a grand total of $47.00 a month for two years, then $22 a month after the phones are paid for.

    For my family, my total home Internet and mobile phone fees for the next five+ years will be < $2000. That's about a 90% savings from what I was paying before.

    Obviously 1 Gig of shared data across three phones is minimal, as is the 25 Mbps home broadband, but I will still have my AT&T Gigabit Hotspot and I can adjust the bandwidth and mobile data plans as needed monthly.

    I believe that there is a > 50% chance that BB10 will stop working with Exchange Online before the end of the year, so now I'm prepared. And I'll still be doing most of my work on the Z10 using Wifi while I can.

    Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android
    FYI-

    Even though our usage patterns and preferences are totally different, your setups give me plenty of ideas how to adapt my own setups.

    Between you and conite, I'll owe both of you several rounds at watering hole of your choice next time either of you is close by.....
    MB64 likes this.
    05-16-20 04:24 PM
  8. Ashley Taylor's Avatar
    As someone who knows and is comfortable using all modern platforms, my opinion is they all involve compromises, and each of us has to decide which compromises we are willing to live with.

    BB10: Near perfect email work flow, great privacy and security, great keyboards (PKB and VKB), but limited Web browser and no modern apps.

    BlackBerry Android KEY phones: BlackBerry features and PKB, mid-tier hardware and no future

    Android Slabs: Huge app selection and good security, but Byzantine patching, short life cycles, and many privacy issues.

    IOS: frustrating ecosystem lock-ins, awful PKB and MS Exchange work flow, great security, decent privacy and best-in-class long term support.

    Personally, after BB10, I find the choice between Android and Apple to be about what type of bread I want for my **** sandwich. I selected an iPhone because it will offer a better value, meaningfully better privacy and drastically better support over the five years I'll want to get out of my phone.

    Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android
    Yeah.

    BB10 near perfect email workflow until you decided to use PGP encryption. 9 times out of 10 it didn’t . Open PGP didn’t work with Symantec PGP which was what BB10 was designed to use and depending on the os version you used, it didn’t work anyway because PGP would only work with enterprise connectivity but the developers kept forgetting that
    05-19-20 04:03 PM
  9. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Yeah.

    BB10 near perfect email workflow until you decided to use PGP encryption. 9 times out of 10 it didn’t . Open PGP didn’t work with Symantec PGP which was what BB10 was designed to use and depending on the os version you used, it didn’t work anyway because PGP would only work with enterprise connectivity but the developers kept forgetting that
    First, great to hear you're using encrypted email. Everyone should.

    Second, I'm sorry that the devs didn't consider your use case. It's just another example of the sharp right hand turn the company tried and failed to make between 2010 and 2013 switching from an enterprise messaging company to a consumer smart phone business.

    Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android
    chain13 likes this.
    05-20-20 04:35 AM
  10. Ashley Taylor's Avatar
    First, great to hear you're using encrypted email. Everyone should.

    Second, I'm sorry that the devs didn't consider your use case. It's just another example of the sharp right hand turn the company tried and failed to make between 2010 and 2013 switching from an enterprise messaging company to a consumer smart phone business.

    Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android
    I the Devs did.

    I found the bug (sorry “Deviation”) and got them to fix it. But every time they released a new build it regressed.

    On BlackBerryforums.com there was a long thread about BB10 and PGP. Someone at BB found it and thought the words were from me. Someone had taken a support email I had sent them and posted it word for word on BlackBerryforums.com

    FWIW, WhatsApp never used to use end to end encryption because the sender and recipients used to use the same keys.

    BBM was hashed

    Signal and ProtonMail seem to be the best systems at the moment
    05-20-20 04:54 AM
  11. elfabio80's Avatar
    I the Devs did.

    I found the bug (sorry “Deviation”) and got them to fix it. But every time they released a new build it regressed.

    On BlackBerryforums.com there was a long thread about BB10 and PGP. Someone at BB found it and thought the words were from me. Someone had taken a support email I had sent them and posted it word for word on BlackBerryforums.com

    FWIW, WhatsApp never used to use end to end encryption because the sender and recipients used to use the same keys.

    BBM was hashed

    Signal and ProtonMail seem to be the best systems at the moment
    Hi Ashley,

    I hope you are doing fine and recovered well.

    One question about WA: do you mean that the WA version on BB10 was never using the end to end encryption or in general? Can you better clarify?

    What about Telegram? Do you consider this app respectful of the privacy and secure?

    Cheers,
    Fab
    05-20-20 06:04 AM
  12. Ashley Taylor's Avatar
    In general. It has been using end to end encryption for years now. But when they first announced end to end encryption, it wasn’t
    elfabio80 likes this.
    05-20-20 07:02 AM
  13. Ashley Taylor's Avatar
    Never used telegram so can’t comment
    05-20-20 07:03 AM
  14. mj162's Avatar
    My 2c: Illness grounded me for two years. After COVID I'll continue to WFH or locally at a big screen. My visual accommodation is such now that I avoid doing much on a phone. Walking-around with the thing constantly in my hand? -- not me.

    Yes, I was a DroidBerry ReMoaner: the UI rubbish vs. BB10; and I had preferred to to hand my personal data on a plate to Google. If I wanted to remain BB, I had to get the KEYᵒⁿᵉ to run BBWork, Jabber, WebEx and stuff for work. Now Conit'es educated me, it's clear my KEYᵒⁿᵉ's Android 8 Bluetooth is never going to work with the conference turret I just bought now we're all doing videoconferencing WFH. So the story repeats: Forced off when needs must. Thanks (collectively) for your heads-up on the f(x)tec PRO and Unihertz Titan.

    For me, ruggedness, dual-sim and Android 9 of the Titan were compelling. PKB? I'm not religious, well I am, but not about PKBs. Youngsters can type far faster on VKBs than I can on a PKB. And, frankly, if I need to do any serious screen-work, I use a desktop. Today, PKB is just a nice to have. Few will see my Titan to snigger-at (like they used-to my BBs when I travelled to London). If I have to work on the train, I wouldn't choose to work on a phone.

    The demise of the TCL deal is significant only in that TCL diluted the BB brand with Android and even then couldn't succeed. They were never going to pour R&D into QNX. For work, the "choice" is Android or iOS. Sadly, that duopoly was already true years ago. The final nail had an inevitability because RIM, once corporate darling, failed to keep-up. There's a point when, in reading a novel, you just start turning pages over; because you know how it's going to end.
    elfabio80 likes this.
    05-24-20 08:06 AM
  15. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    My 2c: Illness grounded me for two years. After COVID I'll continue to WFH or locally at a big screen. My visual accommodation is such now that I avoid doing much on a phone. Walking-around with the thing constantly in my hand? -- not me.

    Yes, I was a DroidBerry ReMoaner: the UI rubbish vs. BB10; and I had preferred to to hand my personal data on a plate to Google. If I wanted to remain BB, I had to get the KEYᵒⁿᵉ to run BBWork, Jabber, WebEx and stuff for work. Now Conit'es educated me, it's clear my KEYᵒⁿᵉ's Android 8 Bluetooth is never going to work with the conference turret I just bought now we're all doing videoconferencing WFH. So the story repeats: Forced off when needs must. Thanks (collectively) for your heads-up on the f(x)tec PRO and Unihertz Titan.

    For me, ruggedness, dual-sim and Android 9 of the Titan were compelling. PKB? I'm not religious, well I am, but not about PKBs. Youngsters can type far faster on VKBs than I can on a PKB. And, frankly, if I need to do any serious screen-work, I use a desktop. Today, PKB is just a nice to have. Few will see my Titan to snigger-at (like they used-to my BBs when I travelled to London). If I have to work on the train, I wouldn't choose to work on a phone.

    The demise of the TCL deal is significant only in that TCL diluted the BB brand with Android and even then couldn't succeed. They were never going to pour R&D into QNX. For work, the "choice" is Android or iOS. Sadly, that duopoly was already true years ago. The final nail had an inevitability because RIM, once corporate darling, failed to keep-up. There's a point when, in reading a novel, you just start turning pages over; because you know how it's going to end.
    If your not a PKB fanatic... there is no point in the Titan and it's questionable software situation. KEY2 would be a much better option.... but even it's usefulness window is shrinking.
    05-26-20 11:45 AM
  16. mj162's Avatar
    If your not a PKB fanatic... there is no point in the Titan and it's questionable software situation. KEY2 would be a much better option.... but even it's usefulness window is shrinking.
    I'll come to that..

    The Key2 is still on Android 8. Titan is:

    • Android 9,
    • less expensive,
    • dual sim,
    • 6AH vs. 3.5AH,
    • rugged

    compared with the Key2. What's not to like?

    It's on it's way to me. Feel free to cause me cognitive dissonance; but needs must, I need a better work phone. Buying the Keyone two years ago when I already had two Q10s was for the same reason.

    But returning to what you said, so tell me, do true-to-the-faith PKB fanatics nod knowingly at oneanother?
    05-26-20 01:00 PM
  17. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    My 2c: Illness grounded me for two years. After COVID I'll continue to WFH or locally at a big screen. My visual accommodation is such now that I avoid doing much on a phone. Walking-around with the thing constantly in my hand? -- not me.

    Yes, I was a DroidBerry ReMoaner: the UI rubbish vs. BB10; and I had preferred to to hand my personal data on a plate to Google. If I wanted to remain BB, I had to get the KEYᵒⁿᵉ to run BBWork, Jabber, WebEx and stuff for work. Now Conit'es educated me, it's clear my KEYᵒⁿᵉ's Android 8 Bluetooth is never going to work with the conference turret I just bought now we're all doing videoconferencing WFH. So the story repeats: Forced off when needs must. Thanks (collectively) for your heads-up on the f(x)tec PRO and Unihertz Titan.

    For me, ruggedness, dual-sim and Android 9 of the Titan were compelling. PKB? I'm not religious, well I am, but not about PKBs. Youngsters can type far faster on VKBs than I can on a PKB. And, frankly, if I need to do any serious screen-work, I use a desktop. Today, PKB is just a nice to have. Few will see my Titan to snigger-at (like they used-to my BBs when I travelled to London). If I have to work on the train, I wouldn't choose to work on a phone.

    The demise of the TCL deal is significant only in that TCL diluted the BB brand with Android and even then couldn't succeed. They were never going to pour R&D into QNX. For work, the "choice" is Android or iOS. Sadly, that duopoly was already true years ago. The final nail had an inevitability because RIM, once corporate darling, failed to keep-up. There's a point when, in reading a novel, you just start turning pages over; because you know how it's going to end.
    As Dunt says above, if you don’t absolutely have to have the PKB there are several Android/iOS choices that support dual SIM or eSIM priced well and secure. I’m using the XR with dual eSIM for instance.
    pdr733 likes this.
    05-26-20 01:28 PM
  18. mj162's Avatar
    As Dunt says above, if you don’t absolutely have to have the PKB there are several Android/iOS choices that support dual SIM or eSIM priced well and secure. I’m using the XR with dual eSIM for instance.
    Thanks for the info. For me, PKB is order winning rather than qualifying, and I can satisfice without needing to optimise. Brand is partly a heuristic for curtailing search: It saves time for iPhoners to just follow Apple's roadmap. BlackBerry is a brand in terminal decline. TCL know that. I used the collective experience and valued opinion here in choosing replacement new phone and didn't spend overly too long on it. "You've made a [I]bad[I] choice" -- you worry me. "You could have made a better choice -- I'm cool with that.
    05-26-20 01:55 PM
  19. Hawktwo's Avatar
    My Priv is getting wonkier and wonkier -- so I was planning on getting KeyOne and switching to AT&T and install a signal booster in my secluded location. Just checked AT&T's site and it errors out if you look for Keyone devices. Due to nerve damage, the physical keyboard is so much easier than trying to land on the sweet spot for pushing a number or letter.
    06-10-20 10:24 AM
  20. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    My Priv is getting wonkier and wonkier -- so I was planning on getting KeyOne and switching to AT&T and install a signal booster in my secluded location. Just checked AT&T's site and it errors out if you look for Keyone devices. Due to nerve damage, the physical keyboard is so much easier than trying to land on the sweet spot for pushing a number or letter.
    Either find the best Android/iOS VKB on the best carrier area coverage without boosters or you’re in for a move. I’m a huge BB fan contrary to my comments sometimes but it’s reality. AT&T doesn’t really support boosters anymore but I relied on femto booster tower inside for the last 10 years. They’ve become obsolete and WiFi calling has become the replacement. It’s truly much better if you have a carrier supported device.

    The AT&T carrier locked KEYone should have WFC supported by AT&T but it wasn’t supported. If that’s really what you want, you can find on eBay for sale.

    I still play around with KEYone BE and Motion, but I use IPhone XR and LG V30 as primary hardware. My XR is my actual two lines with eSIM go everywhere and run my business phone. It has a better VKB experience for me like I feel PKB was, but closest is still only closest. A premium Android VKB could be just as good as my mid-tier XR but I can get 4 years on the phone. If you can find a good deal on Pixel 3a or new Pixel 4a, give it a shot too. Perhaps a larger Android/iOS screen would help. Either way, I preferred the VKB response at time over the LG V series but it was close.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    06-10-20 10:46 AM
  21. joeldf's Avatar
    AT&T no longer has the KeyOne on their site. I noticed it finally disappeared a couple of weeks back. Probably around the time the Samsung A51 showed up there.
    06-10-20 11:16 AM
  22. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    AT&T no longer has the KeyOne on their site. I noticed it finally disappeared a couple of weeks back. Probably around the time the Samsung A51 showed up there.
    Oooh! Does that mean my AT&T KEYone is now collectible and worth a lot of money? :-P

    Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android
    06-10-20 01:11 PM
  23. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Oooh! Does that mean my AT&T KEYone is now collectible and worth a lot of money? :-P

    Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android
    I'm rich as I have one too........
    06-10-20 01:24 PM
  24. Rico4you's Avatar
    Oooh! Does that mean my AT&T KEYone is now collectible and worth a lot of money? :-P

    Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android
    The HOT commodity is the KEY2 Red Edition!

    High prices...I got mine...Damn it's sexy HOT!
    06-10-20 01:25 PM
  25. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    The HOT commodity is the KEY2 Red Edition!

    High prices...I got mine...Damn it's sexy HOT!
    Yeah I'm not sure what those things are really worth... the only ones I've see at the crazy numbers on ebay.
    06-10-20 03:01 PM
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