03-01-14 06:32 PM
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  1. KermEd's Avatar
    I think the advantage Apple (along with Google and MSFT) has is that it is more diversified, and can probably withstand market turbulence a bit better than BBRY can.
    I agree on Google. Not sold on Microsoft, they have a long way to go software development wise to convince developers to join them.

    Apple, they are in position due to momentum. They use a 2005 marketing model that is starting to prove ineffective, and they are too bloated and small visioned (today) to adjust.

    Android may wipe out Apple, if Android can get some traction back due to piracy and security. And if they can introduce a menu system that isn't black and white.

    Apple doesn't know what they are doing anymore. They are just waiting for their products to die out. They still think the "telling you what you want" model will get them through. But there are too many options these days, I don't see that marketing model working in a diverse industry - much like what killed betamax

    Posted via CB from my LE
    02-28-14 05:42 PM
  2. MartyMcfly's Avatar
    I agree on Google. Not sold on Microsoft, they have a long way to go software development wise to convince developers to join them.

    Apple, they are in position due to momentum. They use a 2005 marketing model that is starting to prove ineffective, and they are too bloated and small visioned (today) to adjust.

    Android may wipe out Apple, if Android can get some traction back due to piracy and security. And if they can introduce a menu system that isn't black and white.

    Apple doesn't know what they are doing anymore. They are just waiting for their products to die out. They still think the "telling you what you want" model will get them through. But there are too many options these days, I don't see that marketing model working in a diverse industry - much like what killed betamax

    Posted via CB from my LE
    You should take a look at Microsoft's app store. It's definitely a lot better than what you think. They seem to have no problem getting all the major developers on board not to mention they have some really great independent developers. What do you mean by "Apple doesn't know what they are doing anymore."? This makes no sense considering the company is constantly executing and delivering great products. How can one (constantly) produce excellent results if they have no idea of what they're doing?
    CDM76 and mikeo007 like this.
    02-28-14 06:11 PM
  3. BerryRipe's Avatar
    I agree completely. Samsung do it with their galaxy range too although they also provide other handsets., its their flagship.

    BlackBerry need to choose a flagship ( I suggest the z30)

    Stick with that one dam device. Improve that device year upon year instead of creating a million new devices, market the hell out of.it, and people might start noticing!

    They can even create a mini version of the z30 for people who don't want the bigger form factor.

    This isn't going to happen though. Never mind

    Posted via CB10
    So you're suggesting not implementing the full qwerty phones? That's Rediculous, it's one of BlackBerry's major strengths.

    Keep The Faith ? BlackBerry Q10 ?
    02-28-14 06:19 PM
  4. BerryRipe's Avatar
    I would like to see a thread about BlackBerry sending out surveys to prior BlackBerry users, why they left BlackBerry and what exactly they would like to see BlackBerry bring to the table.

    Keep The Faith ? BlackBerry Q10 ?
    02-28-14 06:22 PM
  5. anon6040766's Avatar
    Not sure if it's been mentioned but Apple doesn't need more than 1 or 2 phone models. They have various other products with sub-products within. All are large sellers like iPads, MacBook Pro and MacBook Air of different sizes, iMac desktop, Apple TV, etc.

    Yes, iPhone is an insane cash cow, but if they never sold another phone, they'd be fine. They don't have to provide major updates and changes cause the masses like what they have which is the key. So a small change is something to get excited about for iPhone users.

    I simply prefer BlackBerry, but don't fault those who choose Apple. Selling itself isn't always a bad thing.

    Posted via my BlackBerry Z30 on VZW from Philly
    02-28-14 06:36 PM
  6. dougverli1's Avatar
    Thats the thing. BBRY has no choice today if they don't follow the media/market. They went from #1 to #4 because of touch screen invention, lets be honest. The qwerty board isnt for everyone and we know that.
    If BBRY wants to survive they better forget a freaking optical pad, qwerty keyboardvand insert some apps, period.

    Posted via CB10
    02-28-14 10:48 PM
  7. CrackedBarry's Avatar
    Your welcome to think that. I disagree

    Posted via CB from my LE
    Iphone sells for itself-image.jpg

    It's not a matter of opinion. It's a matter of facts. And pointing out all of the points on which you're mistaken (for example, about Apple "not being in the forefront" of mobile) would be more suitable for a new thread. (Or two).

    But I believe the picture posted adequately sums it up.
    Last edited by CrackedBarry; 03-01-14 at 12:31 AM.
    mikeo007 likes this.
    03-01-14 12:20 AM
  8. KermEd's Avatar
    Click image for larger version. 

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    It's not a matter of opinion. It's a matter of facts. And pointing out all of the points on which you're mistaken (for example, about Apple "not being in the forefront" of mobile) would be more suitable for a new thread. (Or two).

    But I believe the picture posted adequately sums it up.
    Lol! Such hidden hostility and I find it interesting how you interpreted my words. Wrong interpretation from what I was intending - probably because I'm tired. But interesting none the less. I was referring to no longer leading the forefront on innovation or market creativity - not sales or units in the marketplace.

    I see no debate, and no arguments from either side - I've only stated opinions so there are really no facts to discuss.

    However, If you want to debate on the current market practices and potential outcomes of mobile power houses --- I highly recommend moving that to a new topic tomorrow. I would like to have the conversation with you but would rather not tonight (I'm too tired to care at the moment).

    As for Microsoft above, that really is a completely separate topic, but no, I'm not going to agree about how impressive their store front is. I have a few apps of my own on the platform and have several m$ mobile devices. It's OK - but fractured and far from impressive yet. Maybe in time.

    Posted via CB from my LE
    03-01-14 01:00 AM
  9. CrackedBarry's Avatar
    Having only one model until recently (and lately two models + one older model)) has some brought some significant advantages for Apple.

    - Stores are dealing with a lot less inventory and SKU's which makes their lives a lot easier. That makes them more likely to stock and recommend iPhones.

    - Third party manufacturers only need to make cases, docks, etc. for one model, which makes them much more likely to participate in the ecosystem.

    - Developers don't need to worry about fragmentation, different screen sizes etc, which made the iPhone popular with them, and meant that even today many apps are iOS-exclusives, and the vast majority of multi-platform apps launch on iOS first.

    - Marketing budgets are concentrated on one product, instead of being spread out and diluted to promote a dozen phones. (Actually, despite some of the claims in this thread, Apples marketing budget for the iPhone is VERY SMALL compared to what Samsung spends on marketing and promotions.)

    All of the above, and the lack of confusion about which model to get, did wonders for customer satisfaction, which is still the highest among iPhone users.
    With only one or two phones available, customers never experience the frustration of going to a store for a new case or dock, only to find out that they don't have anything for their model.

    Could Blackberry benefit in a similar way, from a limited range of 1, 2 or maybe 3 products? Definitely yes. Until now, that wasn't really possible, since Blackberry competed in several different price points, with a pretty diverse range of handsets.

    But those days are long gone.

    Blackberry market share in the US for example, is now so small that it can't be measured accurately. (It's right around the 3-5% margin of error)

    So instead of still competing with a handful of models in a mass market that it already lost, Blackberry should focus on the corporate/business market with one or two models, and only focus on those. Most of the benefits that Apple enjoyed from only having one phone would apply here too.

    The company could have a really good future this way (some would say that it's the only way it can have a future) and Blackberry customers would only benefit from having 100% of Blackberrys engineering, marketing and support resources dedicated to their phone.

    (Though it would also mean a smaller Blackberry, and abandoning the dreams of being a major player on the market)
    03-01-14 01:18 AM
  10. CrackedBarry's Avatar
    I was referring to no longer leading the forefront on innovation or market creativity - not sales or units in the marketplace.
    Oh dear, no hostility intended at all. And I'd be more than happy to take the debate to another thread, it's too broad of a subject to discuss here, which is why I limited myself to the picture.

    And it was exactly in terms of innovation that I meant my reply, so you came across quite clear.

    - Apple for example, is one of the only companies that actually try to innovate, and do something new with their devices, instead of just inflating the spec sheet for its own sake, and for marketing purposes. And inflating it to where it no longer makes sense. (Why, for example do we see cameras past 8MP in new phones? It doesn't make any sense in a consumer device. And it doesn't make the pictures better. But it's an easy way to simulate progress, instead of making a better camera)

    - Apple is first with a 64bit CPU and operating system. We probably won't see Android phones with a 64bit CPU and OS/software in the stores before Q4 this year or early next year. Which means that Apple is ahead of the competition with over a year.
    (And when they come, their implementation of a 64bit solution won't be as effective as Apple's because of the nature of Android. And yes, a 64bit CPU have significant advantages over a 32 bit CPU regardless of memory and RAM.)
    03-01-14 01:35 AM
  11. amjass12's Avatar
    So you're suggesting not implementing the full qwerty phones? That's Rediculous, it's one of BlackBerry's major strengths.

    Keep The Faith ? BlackBerry Q10 ?
    That's hard to decide. The qwerty phone is popular for a very small minority of people, and it will stay that way. I do t think people buying their first smartphone are buying a qwerty. Correct me if im wrong of course.

    I'm not saying abandon it of.coursr. I'm saying make one device. One touch, one keyboard. Make it a flagship. Making 10s if devices is not working as there is no unique marketing point.

    the future is in touch technology, it has been since apple designed the iPhone. As much as many u will hate to admit.



    Posted via CB10
    03-01-14 02:13 AM
  12. avt123's Avatar
    Didn't Apple break their iPhone sales record last quarter?

    Apple breaks iPhone and iPad sales records in Q1 2014 | The Verge

    They really must not know what people want.
    03-01-14 08:17 AM
  13. BBUniq01's Avatar
    I have a iPhone 5s and it's a piece of trash....

    -No expandable memory
    -No HDMI out
    -No video out(can't find settings)
    -No bluetooth file transfer
    -No flash player
    -Can't add songs as ringtones
    -Only Download 20mb at a time unless connected to wi-fi
    -Tiny screen & touch pad
    -Basic boring os

    this list can go on for miles....
    I was at competition event and the guy next to me looked over and said "who buys a BlackBerry? ". I replied I do. Then showed some of the features on my Z10. Then he said he wants an iPhone. I told him to keep his Motorola "something" (he had a case and can't remember which Motorola he has). Then I listed all of the points that you had posted above about the iPhone. And he agreed. Yet he has gall to criticize my buying decision.

    Zed 10 with 1925 leak
    03-01-14 09:09 AM
  14. BBUniq01's Avatar
    Didn't Apple break their iPhone sales record last quarter?

    Apple breaks iPhone and iPad sales records in Q1 2014 | The Verge

    They really must not know what people want.
    Do more research in regards to the decrease in the anticipated sale of the iPhone 5s due to the cannibalization of the iPhone 5c. And yes, Apple's philosophy is to build products based on what the consumer should want instead of what the consumer really needs. I read the Jobs book and after being a longtime Apple supporter, I stopped purchasing his products.

    Zed 10 with 1925 leak
    CerveloJohn likes this.
    03-01-14 09:12 AM
  15. KermEd's Avatar
    Didn't Apple break their iPhone sales record last quarter?

    Apple breaks iPhone and iPad sales records in Q1 2014 | The Verge

    They really must not know what people want.
    Buying your own products and counting it as sales units - not so true and an old Apple trick (hint: this is why their sales look consistent). Look deeper than the verge next time.

    Posted via CB from my LE
    CerveloJohn likes this.
    03-01-14 01:02 PM
  16. MartyMcfly's Avatar
    Buying your own products and counting it as sales units - not so true and an old Apple trick (hint: this is why their sales look consistent). Look deeper than the verge next time.

    Posted via CB from my LE
    Can you provide us with a link or something that prove your accusations?


    Sent from my  using Tapatalk
    03-01-14 01:27 PM
  17. KermEd's Avatar
    Can you provide us with a link or something that prove your accusations?


    Sent from my  using Tapatalk
    You can't be serious that this is news to you.
    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=apple+inflating+sales+figures

    Microsoft does the same. That's why they were sitting on so many pro rt tablets. Bbry, sorry to say it, the same too. It's market standard.

    Posted via CB from my LE
    03-01-14 01:49 PM
  18. Moonbase0ne's Avatar
    Yeah I know I should blame myself for falling for "Iphone 5s is the best" I lasted 4-5 days before I went out and bought the z-30. Now the iphone 5s I have I use as a ipod and a couple things in my house and car that are compatible with apps like my pioneer DVD deck, washer/dryer & sirius radio...
    Just curious, why didn't you return the iPhone 5S seeing as after 5 days you realized you didn't like it?

    And if you kept it for the apps, wouldn't it have been cheaper to just buy a iPod touch?

    As far as all the missing features that the iPhone doesn't have, did you not know about them before you bought it? Did you not research your purchase?

    Again, just curious.
    03-01-14 02:13 PM
  19. avt123's Avatar
    Do more research in regards to the decrease in the anticipated sale of the iPhone 5s due to the cannibalization of the iPhone 5c. And yes, Apple's philosophy is to build products based on what the consumer should want instead of what the consumer really needs. I read the Jobs book and after being a longtime Apple supporter, I stopped purchasing his products.

    Zed 10 with 1925 leak
    Does it matter? They sold 9 million in the first weekend. No matter if the majority are in consumers hands or not. People still like their iPhones. They are reliable and they have every app out there.

    Buying your own products and counting it as sales units - not so true and an old Apple trick (hint: this is why their sales look consistent). Look deeper than the verge next time.

    Posted via CB from my LE
    So Apple bought 50+ million of their own iPhones? I don't need to look at The Verge. I can also look at real life. The iPhone was sold out for almost 3 months over here (NY). It was the same for many other places as well. I am sure there are many iPhones sitting in the store but consumer demand was and still is high. They are a lot easier to get now, but not so much during the holiday season.
    Last edited by avt123; 03-01-14 at 03:36 PM.
    03-01-14 03:19 PM
  20. TGR1's Avatar
    It's rather hard to cook the books to show high profits despite quarter after quarter of buying your own products. Also doesn't explain away the Scrooge McDuck-levels of cash Apple has.

    And so what if the 5s proved successful at upselling the 5c, if total numbers and revenue and profit were better?

    There is a seriously distorted view of what passes for failure/success here, depending if talking Apple/BlackBerry.
    03-01-14 03:35 PM
  21. KermEd's Avatar
    Does it matter? They sold 9 million in the first weekend.
    No, they had 9 million of devices sold. Including devices to carriers and their own company. Not 9 million end user sales.

    No matter if the majority are in consumers hands or not.
    That is the difference between real and inflated.

    So Apple bought 50+ million of their own iPhones?
    More like 35 million. According to apple numbers, everyone in the US buys 2 phones a year - including babies.

    I don't need to look at The Verge. I can also look at real life. The iPhone was sold out for almost 3 months over here (NY).
    That means you can speak for one small group, in one city. Being sold out does not mean it is selling well. That's a stocking issue by design - Nike does the same. Put 10 shoes in the store and brag how you sold out.

    I know 1 person in my office that bought the new iPhone. I know 18 who are using new BB10 devices. Your observation is not worth much individually and just reinforces the trickery the same as my area does not represent yours. I'm sorry you haven't learned to see past it.

    Posted via CB from my LE
    Last edited by KermEd; 03-01-14 at 04:17 PM.
    03-01-14 04:06 PM
  22. MartyMcfly's Avatar
    Lol @ Apple buying 35 million iPhones.


    Sent from my  using Tapatalk
    mikeo007 likes this.
    03-01-14 04:11 PM
  23. KermEd's Avatar
    Lol @ Apple buying 35 million iPhones.


    Sent from my  using Tapatalk
    Yup. Go ahead and do some research for once and quit letting people spoon feed you what to believe .

    Buying to self inflate stock is common. They devices usually do get sold over time, get used for upgrades,get used for repair swap outs. Sent to employees.

    The iPhone they stock in the apple store sitting on shelves - those are already marked as sold on the books. It's the way it works.

    Posted via CB from my LE
    03-01-14 04:18 PM
  24. MartyMcfly's Avatar
    Yup. Go ahead and do some research for once and quit letting people spoon feed you what to believe .

    Posted via CB from my LE
    No need to do research. The amount of iPhones sold has zero impact on my wallet. Besides you would need access to a lot of data (not articles from the web) in order to come up your numbers.


    Sent from my  using CB Forums
    03-01-14 04:22 PM
  25. KermEd's Avatar
    No need to do research. The amount of iPhones sold has zero impact on my wallet. Besides you would need access to a lot of data (not articles from the web) in order to come up your numbers.

    Sent from my  using CB Forums
    Your welcome to stay disillusioned if that is more convenient for you. Some people prefer to ignore the truth. Make no mistake, I'm not saying apple is good or bad. I'm just saying you can't trust sales figures as an accurate representation from anyone on anything.

    Everything is based on units sold. Companies sell units as stock to themselves - so sales figures in a large part are indicators only of who has the most retail space and inventory + consumer interest. Being at the top isn't bad, it does suggest apple is in the lead. But don't treat 60 million units sold as 60 million units in consumer hands.

    Anyway I will let the convo drop back over. It is just a per peave when people try to use units sold as an indicator of anything more concrete than a very rough indicator.

    Posted via CB from my LE
    03-01-14 04:41 PM
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