10-05-20 11:00 AM
59 123
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  1. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    This is a bit of a ramble about my personal experience for long-time BlackBerry fans thinking about their next device. Use it for what it's worth.

    I've been on the new iPhone SE for five months now, and this is what I've duscovered:

    I don't like iOS or the Apple VKB, and I doubt I ever will. But I also never have to fiddle with the thing after my initial setup. It's a solid, no-fuss device. Overall, the "Total Hassle of Ownership" is much less than my KEYone was, but the KEYone was much more customizable, obviously.

    As a daily driver, high volume work device, the iPhone is a huge fail for me, even more so than the KEYone was. I could not be happy with either for the kind of high volume mobile work I used to do on legacy BlackBerry devices and on my Z10. Both the BB10 VKB and the KEYone PKB are far superior for typing.

    In fact, I still use my Z10 for my work email, calendar, etc, and the battery now lasts 12+ hours again after I stripped out all the apps and only use it WiFi tethered to my iPhone.

    But, based on my three years with the KEYone, and my time so far with the iPhone, I doubt I will ever have the kind of phone-based work flow and communications I had between 2003 and 2019. Modern smartphones are just not optimized for that kind of work, and laptops keep getting better.

    These days, I rely on my laptop, supplemented infrequently by my Z10, for almost all my writing, including messaging, and I mostly use my iPhone for music ,2FA security, and as a WiFi hotspot for my Z10.

    My KEYone is now just a burner phone when I need to use a new alias with a new SIM for a client. I don't consider it securable anymore, and the space bar is increasingly unreliable.

    On the convergence spectrum, I'm finding ways to use my laptop for more and more phone-type functions (like messaging) and only looking to my phone to be a primary device when the laptop is impractical, which is less than 1% of the time these days.

    Truth be told, if I simply dropped my phone coverage altogether, it likely would only be an issue once a week or so. The single biggest benefit of having a phone for me is as a 2FA device.

    TL;DR
    I'm happy with the iPhone because it's hassle-free, and I've lowered my expectations that a phone is a critical piece of equipment for work. My laptop is better in almost every respect.

    Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android
    howarmat, dmlis, bh7171 and 2 others like this.
    09-21-20 06:03 AM
  2. Ashley Taylor's Avatar
    The SwiftKey keyboard on iOS is much more accurate than the standard one. More akin to the BB10 VKB
    09-21-20 06:13 AM
  3. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Sounds like you current usage allows for a laptop to be used.... that might be true for many today that aren't out and about as much due to COVID,

    If a laptop can work for you... that's great.
    09-21-20 07:03 AM
  4. the_boon's Avatar
    This is a bit of a ramble about my personal experience for long-time BlackBerry fans thinking about their next device. Use it for what it's worth.

    I've been on the new iPhone SE for five months now, and this is what I've duscovered:

    I don't like iOS or the Apple VKB, and I doubt I ever will. But I also never have to fiddle with the thing after my initial setup. It's a solid, no-fuss device. Overall, the "Total Hassle of Ownership" is much less than my KEYone was, but the KEYone was much more customizable, obviously.

    As a daily driver, high volume work device, the iPhone is a huge fail for me, even more so than the KEYone was. I could not be happy with either for the kind of high volume mobile work I used to do on legacy BlackBerry devices and on my Z10. Both the BB10 VKB and the KEYone PKB are far superior for typing.

    In fact, I still use my Z10 for my work email, calendar, etc, and the battery now lasts 12+ hours again after I stripped out all the apps and only use it WiFi tethered to my iPhone.

    But, based on my three years with the KEYone, and my time so far with the iPhone, I doubt I will ever have the kind of phone-based work flow and communications I had between 2003 and 2019. Modern smartphones are just not optimized for that kind of work, and laptops keep getting better.

    These days, I rely on my laptop, supplemented infrequently by my Z10, for almost all my writing, including messaging, and I mostly use my iPhone for music ,2FA security, and as a WiFi hotspot for my Z10.

    My KEYone is now just a burner phone when I need to use a new alias with a new SIM for a client. I don't consider it securable anymore, and the space bar is increasingly unreliable.

    On the convergence spectrum, I'm finding ways to use my laptop for more and more phone-type functions (like messaging) and only looking to my phone to be a primary device when the laptop is impractical, which is less than 1% of the time these days.

    Truth be told, if I simply dropped my phone coverage altogether, it likely would only be an issue once a week or so. The single biggest benefit of having a phone for me is as a 2FA device.

    TL;DR
    I'm happy with the iPhone because it's hassle-free, and I've lowered my expectations that a phone is a critical piece of equipment for work. My laptop is better in almost every respect.

    Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android
    I found that the KEYone spacebar can be a bit slow to "wake up" if not used for a while. But once you press it a few times, it should be back up and running again.
    Worst case, there are spare keyboards for like $20 on eBay.
    09-21-20 07:54 AM
  5. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I found that the KEYone spacebar can be a bit slow to "wake up" if not used for a while. But once you press it a few times, it should be back up and running again.
    Worst case, there are spare keyboards for like $20 on eBay.
    Thanks for the advice! The main value of the PKB on Android for me was the shortcut keys. I actually use the VKB most of the time because I find the huge screen makes the device top-heavy when using the PKB for typing.

    Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android
    09-21-20 08:12 AM
  6. the_boon's Avatar
    Thanks for the advice! The main value of the PKB on Android for me was the shortcut keys. I actually use the VKB most of the time because I find the huge screen makes the device top-heavy when using the PKB for typing.

    Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android
    Whenever I tried using the VKB on any of the KEYBerry's, it was extremely frustrating because the VKB sits too high, its unnatural and gets me a ton of typos.

    Besides, it makes no sense to type on glass if you have a real keyboard right underneath.
    The shortcuts are an added bonus, but the main purpose of those 35 keys underneath the screen is to enjoy typing on them.

    In your case, if you're not even gonna type much on it, I would have sold the KEYone and got the 24g lighter KEY2 LE a long time ago.
    09-21-20 08:15 AM
  7. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Whenever I tried using the VKB on any of the KEYBerry's, it was extremely frustrating because the VKB sits too high, its unnatural and gets me a ton of typos.

    Besides, it makes no sense to type on glass if you have a real keyboard right underneath.
    The shortcuts are an added bonus, but the main purpose of those 35 keys underneath the screen is to enjoy typing on them.

    In your case, if you're not even gonna type much on it, I would have sold the KEYone and got the 24g lighter KEY2 LE a long time ago.
    Since you prefer typing on a PKB, that makes sense for you. I am completely agnostic on the PKB/VKB question and bought the KEYone because it was the only BlackBerry Android that AT&T offered.

    Personally, I found the position of the VKB on the KEYone To be ergonomically ideal for all-day typing. It allowed me to balance the phone on my index fingers without having to "cradle" it with my pinkies.

    Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android
    09-21-20 08:32 AM
  8. brookie229's Avatar
    I find the huge screen makes the device top-heavy when using the PKB for typing.
    This is the sole reason why I could not buy one and have stuck to my Passport for typing. Passport is wide but has a lower centre of gravity and balances much better for me (with both hands, of course).
    09-21-20 08:53 AM
  9. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    This is the sole reason why I could not buy one and have stuck to my Passport for typing. Passport is wide but has a lower centre of gravity and balances much better for me (with both hands, of course).
    That was my experience as well.

    I know that I am one of the few people around here who transitioned pretty effortlessly from the legacy BlackBerry phones that I'd used for a decade to the VKB on BB10 back in 2013. I was comfortable on the VKB within 48 hours, and much faster than I had been on my Bold within a month.

    I've enjoyed both the BlackBerry (legacy and BB10) PKBs and VKBs more than anything I've experienced on Android or iOS. I'm too much if a one-handed phone user to manage the Passport as a daily driver, but I love the screen ND overall design!

    Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android
    09-21-20 09:02 AM
  10. brookie229's Avatar
    I was comfortable on the VKB within 48 hours
    Same with me. I'm ok on either type of device. It will be interesting to see what OM comes up with.
    09-21-20 09:08 AM
  11. conite's Avatar
    90% of the time I'm nowhere near a laptop, and when I am, I have to wait for it to come back from hibernation and fire up a browser for email, or an app for messaging.

    I can't imagine moving away from the "instant-on", "always-there" mobile device life.
    09-21-20 09:14 AM
  12. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Yep. Your use case is completely different than mine! The nice thing about the convergence trend is that people like you who don't need a PC constantly don't have to have one just for mundane tasks like email, messaging, to do lists, banking, light web browsing, etc., and power users like you can do even more sophisticated cloud-enabled work.

    For me, the story is the opposite. The PC is the single, indispensable tool for what I do. In fact, other than email and messaging, almost all of my work requires a full-sized keyboard and at least a laptop-sized monitor, as well as specialized software not available on smart phones and as many cpu cores and as much RAM as possible.

    Between 2003 and 2017, the single most important reason I needed a smart phone was to keep frequent, mundane tasks, like web browsing, email, messaging, etc. off of the limited cores on my laptop or desktop PC. Now that I can easily have an 8-20 core CPU I don't have to worry about bottle-necking my work with those tasks, so my phone becomes less valuable.
    09-21-20 10:47 AM
  13. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    90% of the time I'm nowhere near a laptop, and when I am, I have to wait for it to come back from hibernation and fire up a browser for email, or an app for messaging.

    I can't imagine moving away from the "instant-on", "always-there" mobile device life.
    Yep. Your use case is completely different than mine! The nice thing about the convergence trend is that people like you who don't need a PC constantly don't have to have one just for mundane tasks like email, messaging, to do lists, banking, light web browsing, etc., and power users like you can do even more sophisticated cloud-enabled work.

    For me, the story is the opposite. The PC is the single, indispensable tool for what I do. In fact, other than email and messaging, almost all of my work requires a full-sized keyboard and at least a laptop-sized monitor, as well as specialized software not available on smart phones and as many cpu cores and as much RAM as possible.

    Between 2003 and 2017, the single most important reason I needed a smart phone was to keep frequent, mundane tasks, like web browsing, email, messaging, etc. off of the limited cores on my laptop or desktop PC. Now that I can easily have an 8-20 core CPU I don't have to worry about bottle-necking my work with those tasks, so my phone becomes less valuable.

    For all practical purposes, the PCs I rely on are all "instant-on, always-there." These days, I sometimes go more than a day without looking at my phone except for 2FA authentication. I use VOIP for everything, so there are no calls or messages that only go to my phone, so it's just not needed.
    09-21-20 10:52 AM
  14. Ashley Taylor's Avatar
    90% of the time I'm nowhere near a laptop, and when I am, I have to wait for it to come back from hibernation and fire up a browser for email, or an app for messaging.

    I can't imagine moving away from the "instant-on", "always-there" mobile device life.
    Any reason you use hibernate instead of sleep?

    Serious question, used to debate this the last place I worked. Hibernate was too slow for lawyers. Sleep had its quirks
    09-21-20 01:22 PM
  15. conite's Avatar
    Any reason you use hibernate instead of sleep?

    Serious question, used to debate this the last place I worked. Hibernate was too slow for lawyers. Sleep had its quirks
    I mostly use sleep actually.
    09-21-20 01:54 PM
  16. Ashley Taylor's Avatar
    I mostly use sleep actually.
    Depends what laptop you have as there are different sleep states
    09-21-20 03:14 PM
  17. howarmat's Avatar
    Sleep used to be horrendous but now its much better. Never hibernate again unless you wont be usually it for a while and worry about battery drain.
    09-21-20 03:27 PM
  18. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Sleep used to be horrendous but now its much better. Never hibernate again unless you wont be usually it for a while and worry about battery drain.
    My PCs start up just as fast as my phone, for all intents and purposes, but, more importantly, they rarely have a chance to sleep in the first place.

    Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android
    09-21-20 06:05 PM
  19. idssteve's Avatar
    I pack spare batteries for my Toughbook. Auxiliary (media port) battery keeps it running during quick main batt swap. Spare batt charger in vehicle. Also employ various docking stations at desks, in vehicles, etc to keep it charged and connect to huge screens, external drives, IBM "clicky" KB, etc. It hasn't been shut off or sleep in recent months. Similar to OP, I've been leaning on PC more as Bold slowly fades. Toughbook's carrying handle and shoulder strap really makes it pretty realtime available. It NEVER sees a carrying case. Lol. My 10 finger type rate on it far surpasses my single thumb mobile capabilities... Even on Bold....

    If forced to employ both hands, both eyes, and both cranial hemispheres to operate a device that won't fit a pocket, I just as well enjoy 10 finger typing speed & precision. . AND a screen that dwarfs even my two handed D60!

    Also, CAD is still best on PC. Lol. Also the 9pin 232 port and dual boot permits com with some OLD client equipment. AND the embedded wwan does sms! Lol. AND I totally LOVE the physical radio switch! With radios off, no data's going ANYwhere. Lol. Especially Microsoft's "updates"... Till I get a chance to research just WHAT MS is up to THIS week... Lol.

    Big downside is the touch pad nav. I pack a little bluetooth mouse that folds and stores and charges itself in the old pcmcia slot. Prefer to use Bold as a bluetooth mouse and data entry appliance but recent BT vulnerabilities have put a stop to that... For now... Lol. Considered fitting a Bold trackpad to it but... Time has been even shorter supply since recent "retirement"... Lol.

    The Toughbook's usb ports are BEASTS for power, also! I use the thing as a power brick to charge LE & Classic. No worries with Bold with JM1 in pocket, tho. Lol.
    09-22-20 03:14 AM
  20. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    Interesting read, its amazing how we all differ in our usage of tech but then again thats what makes it so cool because there seems to be something for everyone. Your usage is definitely very different.

    Personally, I am happy with my iPhone 11 Pro Max + Apple Watch and 2020 iPad Pro 11” + Foldable Bluetooth Keyboard combo, for all my personal use needs, the only thing I use a laptop for is work as it is work supplied and has specialized apps and VPN I need to use with it. If I didn’t need the specialized apps and VPN access to certain parts of the organization I would simply use my iPad Pro for work to as it has the power and the glorious 120hz refresh rate display. Right now all I can have is my Emails and Calendar synced to my mobile devices but still need the work laptop to access intranet, drives, dashboards etc... I am currently getting IT to remotely include my iPad Pro as my iPhone and watch are already synced up, which is great because sometimes I get so busy that I completely forget about MS Teams meetings luckily my watch nudges me 15mins before and I have also set my watch up to show upcoming appointments on the face.

    I don’t see my combination changing for a long time, I am just thinking of adding a Apple Pencil and then I will just upgrade what I want to upgrade when I think its time to upgrade it.

    When foldable phones are less brittle and more mature I think thats when my combo will change.
    Ashley Taylor and chain13 like this.
    09-22-20 10:02 AM
  21. the_boon's Avatar
    Interesting read, its amazing how we all differ in our usage of tech but then again thats what makes it so cool because there seems to be something for everyone. Your usage is definitely very different.

    Personally, I am happy with my iPhone 11 Pro Max + Apple Watch and 2020 iPad Pro 11” + Foldable Bluetooth Keyboard combo, for all my personal use needs, the only thing I use a laptop for is work as it is work supplied and has specialized apps and VPN I need to use with it. If I didn’t need the specialized apps and VPN access to certain parts of the organization I would simply use my iPad Pro for work to as it has the power and the glorious 120hz refresh rate display. Right now all I can have is my Emails and Calendar synced to my mobile devices but still need the work laptop to access intranet, drives, dashboards etc... I am currently getting IT to remotely include my iPad Pro as my iPhone and watch are already synced up, which is great because sometimes I get so busy that I completely forget about MS Teams meetings luckily my watch nudges me 15mins before and I have also set my watch up to show upcoming appointments on the face.

    I don’t see my combination changing for a long time, I am just thinking of adding a Apple Pencil and then I will just upgrade what I want to upgrade when I think its time to upgrade it.

    When foldable phones are less brittle and more mature I think thats when my combo will change.
    When the market will be filled with diverse form factors (it's starting to finally open up) so that everyone can have what works best for them, then we'll be able to say "there is something for everyone."

    Until then, it's more like:

    "There's slabs for everyone, whether you want something else or not."
    n_wolcssa and bh7171 like this.
    09-22-20 11:28 AM
  22. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    When the market will be filled with diverse form factors (it's starting to finally open up) so that everyone can have what works best for them, then we'll be able to say "there is something for everyone."

    Until then, it's more like:

    "There's slabs for everyone, whether you want something else or not."
    There’s slabs for everyone.......
    09-22-20 05:20 PM
  23. idssteve's Avatar
    Any slab you want... So long as it's a slab... Lol.
    09-22-20 05:46 PM
  24. n_wolcssa's Avatar
    When the market will be filled with diverse form factors (it's starting to finally open up) so that everyone can have what works best for them, then we'll be able to say "there is something for everyone."

    Until then, it's more like:

    "There's slabs for everyone, whether you want something else or not."
    It also makes a person wonder - in a world that is 99% slabs, what are we doing wrong if 2 or 3 devices are needed to accomplish what everyone else seems to manage with just one? Is it really the device that is the issue?
    09-22-20 10:19 PM
  25. idssteve's Avatar
    It also makes a person wonder - in a world that is 99% slabs, what are we doing wrong if 2 or 3 devices are needed to accomplish what everyone else seems to manage with just one? Is it really the device that is the issue?
    No two humans share an identical use case. Most can compromise and/or modify their use case to fit the available tools. There is a COST to that compromise. How ever slight. how ever significant, For vast majorities, that cost is slight enough to be considered inconsequential.

    For a few of us that cost must be balanced against the benefit. Once cost/benefit disparities approach the price of a better suited tool, it becomes rational to purchase a better suited tool. If a better suited tool isn't available, it becomes rational to purchase multiple tools and attempt a custom solution.

    BIG $$$ in mobile space right now is consumer oriented. "Producers" represent a tiny fraction of "consumers" . And that's how it should be. The vast majority of "producers" have managed to make "ok" with using available consumer oriented tools. Us small few of that small few simply cannot. And us small, small few don't represent a significant enough market for Apple, Samsung, Google to devote microseconds considering. Here we are. lol.

    I remain convinced that personal characteristics like "learning styles" and "personality types" also play a role in "the issue" ... lol
    09-23-20 03:02 AM
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