[evodevo69]

Something is intuitive when most people know how to use it without real explanation. Maybe BB10 was easy for you, but most people had a hard time learning the gesture.

Intuitively when there is a button on the bottom of the screen, people will press on it if they don't know what to do. That's why the "home" button survived so long.

Now Apple is making a bet that their gesture implementation will be much more intuitive. In two weeks, we'll see. But my guess is that they will place a horizontal bar at the bottom edge of the screen so that people will swipe up. Small detail, but already there it's one step more intuitive than BB10.

And about the new iOS keyboard, yes it think it's a better implementation of swipe. Here's a question: how many steps do you need on BB keyboard to type a symbole? 2? 3? On the new iOS keyboard, you just swipe down on the letter associated with the symbole and it's typed. One step.

Are you serious?

Give your iPhone to someone coming from android and then see how they fumble through the device.

Or give it to your grandma and let her "intuitively" figure it out loll

Again, don't confuse habit with intuition.

Been hearing this "it's not intuitive" argument about bb10 since launch and it's the most ridiculous argument against it. Pretty much anyone who got used it said it was intuitive.

Swiping to move around the os was intuitive.

[bobshine]

I gave my iphone to my mom and she never used a smartphone before. When she is loss, she would intuitively press on the home button, cause it's the only thing there.

I am not saying it's like breathing! But compared to other devices it would be more intuitive.

[vladi]

Guys... the reason why BB failed is because of this kind of thinking.

Innovation doesn't sell. It's buggy... it's often not user friendly.

Remember the first computers? MS-DOS? That was innovation.

But after the mouse was introduced... with a graphic interface... that's what sells!

Microsoft case is very similar to Android. It was the low price and availability that got it on the map. And the fact that many other players from the hardware to software could take slice of the pie.

[evodevo69]

I gave my iphone to my mom and she never used a smartphone before. When she is loss, she would intuitively press on the home button, cause it's the only thing there.

I am not saying it's like breathing! But compared to other devices it would be more intuitive.

Lol so that's your example of iOS being more intuitive. Ok.

[bobshine]

Lol so that's your example of iOS being more intuitive. Ok.

Ask anyone here: the main irritant with BB10 was gesture. People would pick it up... then put it down cause they couldn't figure out how to quit an app.

Why didn't BB just put a small horizontal bar at the bottom (like Android does) so people will know that they have to swipe up? Go figure... it's a simple design that makes a huge difference.

Remember, it was all about first impression for BB10, they didn't have a second chance. And they failed it. And that's totally different for well established OS

[Linto988]

Time (TIM) has proved BlackBerry was real visionary.

Posted via CB10

[bobshine]

Time (TIM) has proved BlackBerry was real visionary.

Posted via CB10

Haha if only BB had the same attention to details in execution as Apple.

There was a glitch during the presentation for Face ID... and you saw how quickly they had and switched to the second backup device??? People barely noticed

[MikeX74]

Haha if only BB had the same attention to details in execution as Apple.

There was a glitch during the presentation for Face ID... and you saw how quickly they had and switched to the second backup device??? People barely noticed

That's what it's all about: execution. Being first is great until and unless someone comes along and does a better job at execution. Remember, BlackBerry had smartphones before Apple and Google, but they failed to execute when, where, and how they needed to in order to stave off competition.

To the OP, BB10 had gestures before iOS. To that, I say, so what? What good did being ahead of Apple in this regard do for BlackBerry?

[bobshine]

That's what it's all about: execution. Being first is great until and unless someone comes along and does a better job at execution. Remember, BlackBerry had smartphones before Apple and Google, but they failed to execute when, where, and how they needed to in order to stave off competition.

To the OP, BB10 had gestures before iOS. To that, I say, so what? What good did being ahead of Apple in this regard do for BlackBerry?

Sometimes... it's really really small details that make a difference. Google and Apple puts a thin bar at the edge of the screen to show that you can swipe from there. BB10... it was a sticker. WTF

And those details add up.

BTW, OP, Apple implemented gesture navigation on their laptops way, way before BB10

[bb10adopter111]

Apple has this way of doing things that makes it more "instinctive"

You are talking about the company who thought that a four finger swipe while muktitasking was an intuitive and efficient way to switch tasks, right?



Posted with my trusty Z10

[bobshine]

You are talking about the company who thought that a four finger swipe while muktitasking was an intuitive and efficient way to switch tasks, right?



Posted with my trusty Z10

That wasn't a core feature.

How many times someone has to go home on a mobile device? That's a core feature and you can screw that one up. BB10 screw that one up... it was confusing and the only indication that you had to swipe up when they delivered the Z10 was.... a sticker! Can you believe that???

[cbvinh]

For me, the big difference between the way Apple did it and the way BlackBerry did it, for introducing the UI to the consumer, came down to advertising. Even before I set eyes on the first iPhone, there were tons of ads showing me how to use it. The ads showed the product and were also instructional. For BlackBerry, there were no such ads. It wasn't that BB10 gestures were complicated (there are just a few to know), but no one had seen them and stores didn't have the devices in demo mode. I do admit, however, that the Home/"Panic" button on iPhones are a good way to get out of many situations, but it's not really a way to use the device. I guess you /could/ get away with handing someone an iPhone and have them launch an app, Home, launch an app, etc., but is that really using the device? Further, I don't think the line at the bottom makes it intuitive as you still need to know what to do with it, i.e. swipe up. It's not a replacement for the Home/"Panic" button.

[Eumaeus]

You are talking about the company who thought that a four finger swipe while muktitasking was an intuitive and efficient way to switch tasks, right?



Posted with my trusty Z10

OS X's four-finger-swipe is just one of at least six different ways to switch tasks. As it happens, I do find it very fast and efficient, but I bet fewer than 5% of Mac users even know about it. It is a nice addition to a rich UI, and far from the default, let alone forced on anyone.

[bb10adopter111]

OS X's four-finger-swipe is just one of at least six different ways to switch tasks. As it happens, I do find it very fast and efficient, but I bet fewer than 5% of Mac users even know about it. It is a nice addition to a rich UI, and far from the default, let alone forced on anyone.

Apple's support site only lists three, besides the home button, and they all require 4-5 fibgers:

Return to the Home screen: While using an app, pinch four or five fingers together on the screen.

See the app switcher: Swipe up with four or five fingers or double-click the Home button. Then swipe right or left with one finger to find and open a different app.

Switch apps: Swipe left or right with four or five fingers to switch to a previously used app.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[anon(8063781)]

Even before I set eyes on the first iPhone, there were tons of ads showing me how to use it. The ads showed the product and were also instructional. For BlackBerry, there were no such ads.

That's not at all how I remember the introduction of BB10. There might not have been as many ads (but there were ads) but I remember every media outlet showing that reverse 7 gesture and explaining the peek feature. To this day, I don't use that gesture much. However, once you know to swipe up, the rest does come to you.

In any case, this whole argument is moot. Gestures didn't sink BB10, or webOS, or Meego Harmattan for that matter. iOS and Android were the first Unix (BSD/Linux-based) mobile OS's, gained the first-mover advantages, and the story was pretty much over by the time the late players modernized their operating systems.

That's before you even start to consider that BlackBerry had a reputation that was so bad that the only comparison I can think of is the Bee Gees after disco died. The general population and the media hated BlackBerries. They were reviled, and probably because of the Storm, because everything pre-OS7 sucked for purposes related to fun, and because work phones. Who doesn't hate their work phone? /rant







Sent from my Passport using Forum Fiend OSP

[AbhiDarbey]

BB10 + Android = iPhone X

Posted via CB10

[velkod]

At this point Apple could literally introduce features that are identical to BB, and people would applaud and justify them.

They could come out with a keyboard or track pad, and people would say how awesome and logical it is. I am not joking here, that's exactly what would happen.

100%

[Avenzuno]

More correctly, the iPhone X, which like ALL BlackBerry 10 phones do not have a Home button. All gestures, Baby!

Posted via CB10 from my 100-4 Passport SE

[the_boon]

Honestly the most pathetic thing about yesterday's iphones launch was the fact that none of the speakers said a single word about battery capacity of iSlab 8, 8+ and X. But they sure did explore the face emojis. Like THAT's more important than having a device that could reliably get it's user through the day, right?
Apple is like the only manufacturer with it's phone's batteries still in the high 1000's / low 2000's mAh

[bobshine]

Honestly the most pathetic thing about yesterday's iphones launch was the fact that none of the speakers said a single word about battery capacity of iSlab 8, 8+ and X. But they sure did explore the face emojis. Like THAT's more important than having a device that could reliably get it's user through the day, right?
Apple is like the only manufacturer with it's phone's batteries still in the high 1000's / low 2000's mAh

They did: they mentioned that it will last two hours longer than the iphone 7. On their website, in the specs, it mentions how many hours of use.

Knowing how many mAh is useless and is a bad indicator of battery life. There is nothing “pathetic” about optimizing battery life by using the smallest battery possible.

Wouldn’t you agree???

[the_boon]

They did: they mentioned that it will last two hours longer than the iphone 7. On their website, in the specs, it mentions how many hours of use.

Knowing how many mAh is useless and is a bad indicator of battery life. There is nothing “pathetic” about optimizing battery life by using the smallest battery possible.

Wouldn’t you agree???

Don't they always say its gonna last x amount of hours more than the previous one? I only said it was pathetic because I must have missed that part of the presentation, but I'm sure they still spent longer making face emojis than on the battery life, which I think we can bet is gonna be about the same size, maybe a few dozen more mAh's at best (talking iPhone 8 not X).
This is with most manufacturers anyway, they pack so many features but the phone won't last a day if the user actually uses them moderately, let alone intensively. I feel like battery capacity/life is taking a backseat to other features as far as priorities, but imo wireless/quick charging don't really excuse an unsatisfactory battery.

[bobshine]

Don't they always say its gonna last x amount of hours more than the previous one? I only said it was pathetic because I must have missed that part of the presentation, but I'm sure they still spent longer making face emojis than on the battery life, which I think we can bet is gonna be about the same size, maybe a few dozen more mAh's at best (talking iPhone 8 not X).
This is with most manufacturers anyway, they pack so many features but the phone won't last a day if the user actually uses them moderately, let alone intensively. I feel like battery capacity/life is taking a backseat to other features as far as priorities, but imo wireless/quick charging don't really excuse an unsatisfactory battery.

They actually spent a few minutes on battery life when presenting the iPhone X (i don’t remember the iphone 8).

They said that because the phone consumes so much more energy, they had to redesign the hardware and optimize the software (rumour has it that they stacked the logic board and the battery is smaller, but L shaped).

Apple never mention memory size, RAM, processor clock speed.

[anon(10292056)]

@bobshine
The people you speak of must be very simple because my 75 year old mother uses her BB10 Z30 without any instructions.
I always wonder why we don't Hear news reports of people drowning from drinking to much Apple Kool-aid