1. kraski's Avatar
    Here's a link to some thoughts on the latest beta for iOS 6. Some things finally work, email still hasn't caught up to BB. I'm thinking it's less of a threat to BB than might be expected. But it is still beta, so who knows what they're not showing. After Using iOS 6 Beta 2 for a Few Days, Here are My 5 Favorite Features | Mobile and Social Media
    07-02-12 07:20 AM
  2. avt123's Avatar
    Worry about WP8, not iOS. It will take years for RIM to reach iOS in terms of marketshare.

    WP8 is the threat for RIM. The battle for third place. iOS and Android have way too big of a lead right now to be worried about them.
    waker, aniym, ubizmo and 4 others like this.
    07-02-12 08:06 AM
  3. pri79269's Avatar
    Worry about WP8, not iOS. It will take years for RIM to reach iOS in terms of marketshare.

    WP8 is the threat for RIM. The battle for third place. iOS and Android have way too big of a lead right now to be worried about them.
    I agree, but I kinda think the only threat RIM should be concerned about right now is RIM. They need to make some solid internal business decisions right now. They shouldn't even be focusing on competition.
    JBenn911 likes this.
    07-02-12 08:27 AM
  4. waker's Avatar
    Thats like saying sunlight is less of a threat to vampires, than might be expected.
    07-02-12 08:31 AM
  5. Jethro-Ten's Avatar
    Thats like saying sunlight is less of a threat to vampires, than might be expected.
    LOL, exactly.
    Apple have already wiped the floor with their products, now they are just mopping up the few crumbs left.

    Sad really, but no less true for it.

    J
    07-02-12 08:36 AM
  6. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    Worry about WP8
    I don't share this point of view. WP8 is not a clear opponent. I mean not ONLY an opponent.
    Brands notoriety and hypes are very sensitive phenomenas. If WP8 succeed, this will be another "foot in the door"; participating in the evaporation of the " x or z brand/device/OS is simply the best, no one can match" myth.

    Of course, this implies that BB10 reaches at least the "current state of art", but I really hope that consumers will thereby gain maturity and start wondering "well, which of these devices is made for me" ?

    Competition (as for 7" tablets) is the best RIM can dream. If sole opponent, its chances are lower than if others inject the idea of alternatives. In particular with new customers.

    2 cents.
    07-02-12 08:57 AM
  7. avt123's Avatar
    I agree, but I kinda think the only threat RIM should be concerned about right now is RIM. They need to make some solid internal business decisions right now. They shouldn't even be focusing on competition.
    RIMs biggest threat has always been themselves. But in terms of the competition, right now it's Microsoft.
    anon1727506 likes this.
    07-02-12 08:57 AM
  8. avt123's Avatar
    I don't share this point of view. WP8 is not a clear opponent. I mean not ONLY an opponent.
    Brands notoriety and hypes are very sensitive phenomenas. If WP8 succeed, this will be another "foot in the door"; participating in the evaporation of the " x or z brand/device/OS is simply the best, no one can match" myth.

    Of course, this implies that BB10 reaches at least the "current state of art", but I really hope that consumers will thereby gain maturity and start wondering "well, which of these devices is made for me" ?

    Competition (as for 7" tablets) is the best RIM can dream. If sole opponent, its chances are lower than if others inject the idea of alternatives. In particular with new customers.

    2 cents.
    RIM is fighting for third place. Google holds number one, and Apple holds number two. RIM is not close to Apple or Google. They are off by a long shot.

    Microsoft is fighting for third place. So is RIM. This is the competition. You talk about "evaporation" of brands, well RIM is doing that to themselves right now by having only BB7 devices on the market. Meanwhile, WP8 will be out before BB10 giving them a nice lead. At this point and time, WP8 has generated more excitement because it is actually real and there is a set timeframe.

    How is WP8 not a clear opponent? In terms of share and market penetration, it will be the closest one to BB10. They are both new, and like I said, fighting for third place. They are both nowhere near Google and Apple.

    RIM better hope people by BB10 devices when they come out, because at this point everyone knows they are a sinking ship. I will most likely be buying one if I like what I see by the time it comes out, but these delays put more bad tastes in peoples mouths.

    RIM is about to get demolished in the 7inch tablet race. Honestly, they do not stand a chance. With the Nexus 7 about to be released and the already Kindle fire, RIM will be fighting for third place there as well. I expect more Nexus 7 devices to be sold in one quarter than RIM has shipped PlayBooks since release.
    07-02-12 09:07 AM
  9. kraski's Avatar
    RIM is fighting for third place. Google holds number one, and Apple holds number two. RIM is not close to Apple or Google. They are off by a long shot.

    Microsoft is fighting for third place. So is RIM. This is the competition.
    Exactly my point when I started this thread. In the positions they're in now, both MS and RIM can be comfortable with each other. In order to gain a good slice of the market, they can't waste time looking at stealing each other's users. They need to go after the big guns. Neither MS nor RIM will ever have a comfortable piece of the pie unless they take market share away from Apple &/or Google.

    If MS and RIM duke it out with each other and one gets killed off, the winner doesn't gain that much marketshare. But the attention is no longer diverted to "the other guy". Apple and android only have one small competitor to deal with. If some of the Apple or Android crowd defect to MS &/or RIM, there may be 3 or there may be 4 companies competing, but #1 &/or #2 will be smaller, #s 3 & 4 get bigger.

    The article I linked to seems to indicate that iOS 6 is going to be an incremental improvement. Think about what Apple did when they introduced the iPhone. They didn't go after some no name feature phone manufacturer, they aimed at RIM. The then top smartphone producer. At the same time, RIM had settled into incremental improvements. Deja vu?

    Right now, Apple has the advantage. Even though they've now had two products with incremental improvements, the fact that they're more diversified than RIM hides the lack of creativity better. But they're slowly becoming the new RIM. Eventually, consumers are going to look for the next great thing. Because the iPhone will become old and dull.

    Just sayin'.
    07-02-12 09:53 AM
  10. Speedygi's Avatar
    RIM has got to watch the giant in the room, Google, like anyone else. Their rate of innovation is frightening.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    07-02-12 10:14 AM
  11. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    Microsoft is fighting for third place. So is RIM. This is the competition. You talk about "evaporation" of brands, well RIM is doing that to themselves right now by having only BB7 devices on the market. Meanwhile, WP8 will be out before BB10 giving them a nice lead. At this point and time, WP8 has generated more excitement because it is actually real and there is a set timeframe.

    How is WP8 not a clear opponent? In terms of share and market penetration, it will be the closest one to BB10. They are both new, and like I said, fighting for third place. They are both nowhere near Google and Apple.
    Please note I talked about "evaporation" regarding the bicephalous brand/OS advantage we have now. The greatest the number of (successful) competitors, the weakest their "undisputable obviousness". I hope it's more clear (not sure, sry).

    WP8 IS a competitor, but, like some may say "the enemies of my enemies ...".
    Last, I'm far from certain RIM is targeting the #3 spot. I believe they are more realistic and just aim - short term - to, basically, stay alive, keep their consumers and recover operating margins. Conquest is in next episode ...
    07-02-12 12:06 PM
  12. HeezyBear's Avatar
    Exactly my point when I started this thread. In the positions they're in now, both MS and RIM can be comfortable with each other. In order to gain a good slice of the market, they can't waste time looking at stealing each other's users. They need to go after the big guns. Neither MS nor RIM will ever have a comfortable piece of the pie unless they take market share away from Apple &/or Google.

    If MS and RIM duke it out with each other and one gets killed off, the winner doesn't gain that much marketshare. But the attention is no longer diverted to "the other guy". Apple and android only have one small competitor to deal with. If some of the Apple or Android crowd defect to MS &/or RIM, there may be 3 or there may be 4 companies competing, but #1 &/or #2 will be smaller, #s 3 & 4 get bigger.

    The article I linked to seems to indicate that iOS 6 is going to be an incremental improvement. Think about what Apple did when they introduced the iPhone. They didn't go after some no name feature phone manufacturer, they aimed at RIM. The then top smartphone producer. At the same time, RIM had settled into incremental improvements. Deja vu?

    Right now, Apple has the advantage. Even though they've now had two products with incremental improvements, the fact that they're more diversified than RIM hides the lack of creativity better. But they're slowly becoming the new RIM. Eventually, consumers are going to look for the next great thing. Because the iPhone will become old and dull.

    Just sayin'.
    I don't know if that's so true. I mean, sure Apple made a smartphone (people argued if it should even be called that at the time) and the top smartphone maker at the time was RIM. However, RIM was focused almost entirely on government and enterprise. Almost as if they didn't see the need in the market for consumer-friendly devices. When Apple launched the iPhone it was aimed at the consumer, not government and enterprise. It was almost an untapped market. It's not like Apple was coming straight out of the gate for RIM's head. They were targeting people RIM didn't, your every day average Joe. Did Apple have a strategy to eventually move towards enterprise? Maybe, but that's not really the point.
    07-02-12 12:19 PM
  13. Speedygi's Avatar
    Which brings us to today, yes?

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9780 using Tapatalk
    07-02-12 12:20 PM
  14. avt123's Avatar
    Exactly my point when I started this thread. In the positions they're in now, both MS and RIM can be comfortable with each other. In order to gain a good slice of the market, they can't waste time looking at stealing each other's users. They need to go after the big guns. Neither MS nor RIM will ever have a comfortable piece of the pie unless they take market share away from Apple &/or Google.

    If MS and RIM duke it out with each other and one gets killed off, the winner doesn't gain that much marketshare. But the attention is no longer diverted to "the other guy". Apple and android only have one small competitor to deal with. If some of the Apple or Android crowd defect to MS &/or RIM, there may be 3 or there may be 4 companies competing, but #1 &/or #2 will be smaller, #s 3 & 4 get bigger.

    The article I linked to seems to indicate that iOS 6 is going to be an incremental improvement. Think about what Apple did when they introduced the iPhone. They didn't go after some no name feature phone manufacturer, they aimed at RIM. The then top smartphone producer. At the same time, RIM had settled into incremental improvements. Deja vu?

    Right now, Apple has the advantage. Even though they've now had two products with incremental improvements, the fact that they're more diversified than RIM hides the lack of creativity better. But they're slowly becoming the new RIM. Eventually, consumers are going to look for the next great thing. Because the iPhone will become old and dull.

    Just sayin'.
    I agree that they need to steal away from Apple and Google. I am just saying the real battle is going to be between RIM and Microsoft. Like you said, if one dies, the winner doesn't gain much market share. But, the winner gains third place and that is the most important right now. The battle for the third ecosystem.
    07-02-12 12:22 PM
  15. avt123's Avatar
    Please note I talked about "evaporation" regarding the bicephalous brand/OS advantage we have now. The greatest the number of (successful) competitors, the weakest their "undisputable obviousness". I hope it's more clear (not sure, sry).

    WP8 IS a competitor, but, like some may say "the enemies of my enemies ...".
    Last, I'm far from certain RIM is targeting the #3 spot. I believe they are more realistic and just aim - short term - to, basically, stay alive, keep their consumers and recover operating margins. Conquest is in next episode ...
    RIM better be aiming for number 3 because the third ecosystem is what matters right now. Microsoft knows this. Hopefully RIM does as well and doesn't just try to "stay alive". Life support has no place in what is going to happen.
    07-02-12 12:24 PM
  16. psufan32's Avatar
    Here's a link to some thoughts on the latest beta for iOS 6. Some things finally work, email still hasn't caught up to BB. I'm thinking it's less of a threat to BB than might be expected. But it is still beta, so who knows what they're not showing. After Using iOS 6 Beta 2 for a Few Days, Here are My 5 Favorite Features | Mobile and Social Media
    You do realize that iOS is an established OS that has been around for a few good years, right? You also realize that iOS wiped the floor with BBOS and is now a very strong 2nd place in the mobile phone sector, and IS the sector as far as tablets are concerned, right?

    But, yes, iOS isn't going to be THAT much of a threat to mighty BB.

    Nothing to see here...

    Barljo likes this.
    07-02-12 12:32 PM
  17. kraski's Avatar
    I agree that they need to steal away from Apple and Google. I am just saying the real battle is going to be between RIM and Microsoft. Like you said, if one dies, the winner doesn't gain much market share. But, the winner gains third place and that is the most important right now. The battle for the third ecosystem.
    I guess that's where we'll agree to disagree. The only advantage #3 has is that it'll be kept alive (barely, like a tortured prisoner) so that the Apple/Google dominance looks less like a duopoly to government agencies. They don't want the reality of no competition to be evident.
    07-02-12 12:38 PM
  18. kraski's Avatar
    You do realize that iOS is an established OS that has been around for a few good years, right? You also realize that iOS wiped the floor with BBOS and is now a very strong 2nd place in the mobile phone sector, and IS the sector as far as tablets are concerned, right?

    But, yes, iOS isn't going to be THAT much of a threat to mighty BB.

    Nothing to see here...

    Click to view quoted image
    I'll just assume you intentionally missed the point. And you're right. Apple is #2. But, like RIM, they used to be #1.
    07-02-12 12:41 PM
  19. anon1727506's Avatar
    Please note I talked about "evaporation" regarding the bicephalous brand/OS advantage we have now. The greatest the number of (successful) competitors, the weakest their "undisputable obviousness". I hope it's more clear (not sure, sry).

    WP8 IS a competitor, but, like some may say "the enemies of my enemies ...".
    Last, I'm far from certain RIM is targeting the #3 spot. I believe they are more realistic and just aim - short term - to, basically, stay alive, keep their consumers and recover operating margins. Conquest is in next episode ...
    I think that WP8 along with their just announced tablets should be of great concern to RIM. I think the business community is going to be very concern about RIM's longevity, and Microsoft is going to be the natural choice as a backup or replacement.

    If I were running an IT department right now and BB was my sole platform...
    07-02-12 12:48 PM
  20. psufan32's Avatar
    I'll just assume you intentionally missed the point. And you're right. Apple is #2. But, like RIM, they used to be #1.
    No, I didn't miss the point. You failed to make a good one. iOS, whether it was iOS4 or whether it is iOS6 Beta 2, has been and will absolutely be a threat to RIM.

    RIM was #1 in market share by default. They WERE the smartphone market. There literally was NO competition. Apple, with the iPhone, and, oh lookie there, iOS, sent RIM into a downward spiral.

    The reality is that it doesn't matter if a BETA version of iOS6 has issues or not. Those issues will be ironed out by the time it is rolled out to the masses, the majority of whom don't know what the word "beta" even means in tech circles. When the iPhone 5 is unveiled, even more consumers will flock to the phone, including existing BB customers.

    Stating that a random beta version of iOS6 isn't as big a threat to BB as once thought is like saying that Home Depot and Lowes are not threats to the few mom and pop hardware stores that still exist because HD and Lowes have had some computer glitches in BETA versions of supply chain software that they are testing. It is an absolutely illogical argument.
    07-02-12 12:57 PM
  21. kraski's Avatar
    No, I didn't miss the point. You failed to make a good one. iOS, whether it was iOS4 or whether it is iOS6 Beta 2, has been and will absolutely be a threat to RIM.

    RIM was #1 in market share by default. They WERE the smartphone market. There literally was NO competition. Apple, with the iPhone, and, oh lookie there, iOS, sent RIM into a downward spiral.

    The reality is that it doesn't matter if a BETA version of iOS6 has issues or not. Those issues will be ironed out by the time it is rolled out to the masses, the majority of whom don't know what the word "beta" even means in tech circles. When the iPhone 5 is unveiled, even more consumers will flock to the phone, including existing BB customers.

    Stating that a random beta version of iOS6 isn't as big a threat to BB as once thought is like saying that Home Depot and Lowes are not threats to the few mom and pop hardware stores that still exist because HD and Lowes have had some computer glitches in BETA versions of supply chain software that they are testing. It is an absolutely illogical argument.
    Glad to see my perception of your diatribe was 100% spot on. If you had read both the article and what I said, you'd realize your preplanned comments were off topic.

    1) Neither stated there were issues with the quality of iOS6.

    2) I never expected the beta to be perfect. I've done beta testing on enough different platforms to think a beta isn't going to have kinks.

    3) What both the article and my comments indicated was that there were no blockbuster additions in iOS6. Just fixes. Incremental improvements. Siri will actually work as intended most of the time. There was grumbling with the last incremental upgrade. I'd be surprised if that didn't happen when Apple does it twice in a row, plus having done the same for Mac and iPad.
    07-02-12 04:24 PM
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