Intel releases iOS to HTML5 App Porter Tool beta
- Superfly_FRRetired ModeratorWhy does this keep happening? Mike007 is spot-on here.
If you don't mind a unified system that's loaded with unhappy compromises, that's not outside the realm of possibility. The zillions of obvious problems aside, I agree that such a system an important step. I just don't see it happening anytime soon, though for non-technical reasons.
For most apps that doesn't require intensive use of GPU (like games do) I pretend the gap is now tiny. In some cases advantage even goes to HTML. But it is a case by case analysis.mikeo007 likes this.02-17-13 04:07 PMLike 1 -
Webworks is HTML5 apps done right IMO. I can program in an easy (for me) language and use modular javascript. When I need to access native functions, there are hooks available for almost everything. My apps can be run offline with no Internet connectivity necessary.
And I can still custom tailor my app for the UI of the specific platform.02-17-13 04:34 PMLike 0 - Android apps seems to be the most universal. They can be ported to Bb10 in less than an hour. They can soon be ported to windows phones and of course they work on Android. That just leaves Apple but they'll never budge.02-17-13 04:48 PMLike 0
- Exactly. But it's still an HTML "APP". When we're talking web pages, you start limiting possibilities. At this point, almost all native functions are off the table and you have to be online to access the web page.
Webworks is HTML5 apps done right IMO. I can program in an easy (for me) language and use modular javascript. When I need to access native functions, there are hooks available for almost everything. My apps can be run offline with no Internet connectivity necessary.
And I can still custom tailor my app for the UI of the specific platform.
I understand that you will blindly bash Blackberry, and therefore any place that their current platform is inferior will somehow become a negative in your eyes. It's a sad, petty way to view the various other smartphone ecosystems though.
Your reply just reeks of jealousy. (------------ I just have to point out this jealousy thing to me is hilarious. You honestly think I'm jealous of android or iOS. Guess what, I use an iphone right now and at any moment I could go and buy a android for cheap. How could I possibly be jealous. Its more likely that you are jealous because you as a developper have spent time learning and investing into these app ecosystems that you develop for and it wouldn't be an easy transition for you. Me, I'm a consumer and I don't care. I can flip flop back and forth platforms whenever I want).
I just took your quote there and switched it for you. You obviously don't read everything I write. I say app stores are fine. They are good for native/high-end/specific apps. I'm against the applification of the web (Think Basillie said that, so we know to the masses he must be wrong since the media pumped the idea he was a bad CEO, despite the fact hes genius). Do you know what a vested interested is? I have none when it comes to apps. I just want there to be competition and believing that downloading all web content from an app store is completely stupid but its the idea thats been pushed on us and apples doing there best effort to continue. Seriously, why am I being asked to download an app for every website I got to in my browser that works perfectly fine. We dont need apps for everything, I'd argue for most things we don't Just good a browser, preferably one that doesn't reload everytime like iOS, but that goes the same for their apps. I think you see things in extremes and think you need apps for everything, but thats what you are going to think since you make apps.
What apps have you made so I can check them out? Any for ios? What type of things can you do with native in your apps you couldn't do with the web? These would be much better arguments than labelling me as a BB fanboy (which I agree I am, they are just doing some amazing stuff no one else is). Have you seen BB10 ability to use the camera with HTML5 and have you seen bb10s HTML5 rating? pretty impressive. Do you think you cant do things with BB10 natively you cant do with the browser? What type of apps do you use/make that do not require an internet connection? Have you gone to the stub hub website on an iOS device?
I'd hope app developpers would help push HTML5 since in the end it benefits competition for competing platforms and doesn't perpetuate this perceived app store advatage further aided by certain content providers blocking or not working with competing platforms to either create apps or allow browser compatibility.02-17-13 11:04 PMLike 0 - I with hurds here Webapps/html app fusion is way forward funnily enough.
Apps as a whole should end soon. There's very little need for the mass off apps.The youtube app we got on the Z is like html/app fusion I actually like it ,its great.This is the future most apps use the web anyway doing coding for each platform is dumb when you can deploy it on the web in a universal code.Where every smartphone user gets it no extra coding buidling apps and wasted resources.You gain even more users as its the web huge space..
Only functonality tools should be apps like flashlights,sync software,editors,games,fancy trans,video chat,msg,dlna remotes.Social media where you upload pics should not be apps.The fact its on X platform when its not an exclusive defeats the purpose of being social.These sites are the ones looking for more users no?
I think ''web apps'' need to be pushed out some more its just the way forward and its for the better of consumers.02-18-13 10:33 AMLike 0 - Superfly_FRRetired ModeratorI understand that you will blindly bash Blackberry, and therefore any place that their current platform is inferior will somehow become a negative in your eyes. It's a sad, petty way to view the various other smartphone ecosystems though.
Your reply just reeks of jealousy. (------------ I just have to point out this jealousy thing to me is hilarious. You honestly think I'm jealous of android or iOS. Guess what, I use an iphone right now and at any moment I could go and buy a android for cheap. How could I possibly be jealous. Its more likely that you are jealous because you as a developper have spent time learning and investing into these app ecosystems that you develop for and it wouldn't be an easy transition for you. Me, I'm a consumer and I don't care. I can flip flop back and forth platforms whenever I want).
I just took your quote there and switched it for you. You obviously don't read everything I write. I say app stores are fine. They are good for native/high-end/specific apps. I'm against the applification of the web (Think Basillie said that, so we know to the masses he must be wrong since the media pumped the idea he was a bad CEO, despite the fact hes genius). Do you know what a vested interested is? I have none when it comes to apps. I just want there to be competition and believing that downloading all web content from an app store is completely stupid but its the idea thats been pushed on us and apples doing there best effort to continue. Seriously, why am I being asked to download an app for every website I got to in my browser that works perfectly fine. We dont need apps for everything, I'd argue for most things we don't Just good a browser, preferably one that doesn't reload everytime like iOS, but that goes the same for their apps. I think you see things in extremes and think you need apps for everything, but thats what you are going to think since you make apps.
What apps have you made so I can check them out? Any for ios? What type of things can you do with native in your apps you couldn't do with the web? These would be much better arguments than labelling me as a BB fanboy (which I agree I am, they are just doing some amazing stuff no one else is). Have you seen BB10 ability to use the camera with HTML5 and have you seen bb10s HTML5 rating? pretty impressive. Do you think you cant do things with BB10 natively you cant do with the browser? What type of apps do you use/make that do not require an internet connection? Have you gone to the stub hub website on an iOS device?
I'd hope app developpers would help push HTML5 since in the end it benefits competition for competing platforms and doesn't perpetuate this perceived app store advatage further aided by certain content providers blocking or not working with competing platforms to either create apps or allow browser compatibility.
I do not doubt HTML5 IS the future for many, many apps. But we have to understand that BlackBerry10 is an exception here; that particular exception I point as a great differenciator. The advance BB have today will provide them a great advantage in the very near future. And yeah, I push HTML5 as hard as I can.
P.S: and developping in HTML5 today is to me (newcomer in mobile apps) by far the more extensible and affordable choice.mikeo007 likes this.02-18-13 11:03 AMLike 1 - I believe there's some missunderstanding here. While I can attest that HTML5 is at its top in BB10 Browser and apps, there's still a real gap to fill on other platforms. Not only mobile ones. When you look at current HTML5 compatibility list, just basically think "all under 400 points will be a mess for cross-platform development".
I do not doubt HTML5 IS the future for many, many apps. But we have to understand that BlackBerry10 is an exception here; that particular exception I point as a great differenciator. The advance BB have today will provide them a great advantage in the very near future. And yeah, I push HTML5 as hard as I can.
P.S: and developping in HTML5 today is to me (newcomer in mobile apps) by far the more extensible and affordable choice.
I'm not sure why it's so hard to see the difference between Web APPS and Web SITES.
Apps built with web technology are not the same as Web sites. They use the same languages, but that's where the similarities end.
Blackberry webworks allows a whole host of APIs that are not available to Web Sites.
Apps also allow for offline functionality which you don't have with web sites.
An efficient app will always be quicker than a website.
Even the same app designed to run as a website will still be quicker as an app, not to mention lighter on data use.
Also, as Superfly said, HTML5 is far from a standard on other platforms. Just because Blackberry has chosen to do a fantastic job of supporting HTML5 and giving developers a great toolkit, doesn't mean that it should be the chosen standard for all platforms. It's just one of the options.
RIM had bet on Java in the past, and it failed. Yet they're still including support for Java (Android) because it is currently more universally supported for applications than anything else.02-18-13 04:17 PMLike 0 - I could be wrong (and I'm sure somebody will correct me whether or not I am), but I thought that if you took a WebWorks application and ran it uncompiled on the device it would still be fine. I know at least that the stuff I've worked on with WebWorks ran fine by just sticking the html, css, and js files (and png, and so on) into a folder on the device and opening index.html through the file manager. If this is the case then website developers could just redirect by user agents so that BB10 users get the version created with BB10 Webworks, Android users get the version with Android Web tools, and iOS and feature phone users get the standard mobile version. That way would be much better, since you'd still get the same basic experience of an app, but the developers would only have to know different APIs for different platforms instead needing to know Objective C, C++/QML, and Java. The performance would likely be lower, but if it isn't too heavy of an application then it shouldn't really be noticeable. As for offline support, many browsers have this built in, and it wouldn't be too hard to do I'd think. Also, I'm fairly sure there was a thread somewhere in this forum where people noticed that one of the major ereaders had a website that worked offline, so I guess it's possible from the server side.Superfly_FR likes this.02-18-13 04:39 PMLike 1
- Superfly_FRRetired ModeratorI
Apps built with web technology are not the same as Web sites. They use the same languages, but that's where the similarities end.
Blackberry webworks allows a whole host of APIs that are not available to Web Sites.
Apps also allow for offline functionality which you don't have with web sites.
An efficient app will always be quicker than a website.
Please read me right ; the turn is at the end of the year IMHO; prepare to see all major browsers over 400 by then.
Posted using CrackBerry App on BB1002-18-13 04:49 PMLike 0 - I could be wrong (and I'm sure somebody will correct me whether or not I am), but I thought that if you took a WebWorks application and ran it uncompiled on the device it would still be fine. I know at least that the stuff I've worked on with WebWorks ran fine by just sticking the html, css, and js files (and png, and so on) into a folder on the device and opening index.html through the file manager. If this is the case then website developers could just redirect by user agents so that BB10 users get the version created with BB10 Webworks, Android users get the version with Android Web tools, and iOS and feature phone users get the standard mobile version. That way would be much better, since you'd still get the same basic experience of an app, but the developers would only have to know different APIs for different platforms instead needing to know Objective C, C++/QML, and Java. The performance would likely be lower, but if it isn't too heavy of an application then it shouldn't really be noticeable. As for offline support, many browsers have this built in, and it wouldn't be too hard to do I'd think. Also, I'm fairly sure there was a thread somewhere in this forum where people noticed that one of the major ereaders had a website that worked offline, so I guess it's possible from the server side.
Your suggestion of only having to know different APIs would work with ANY programming language. HTML5 and JS/CSS have no advantage there except that they are used for the web. That is also their biggest disadvantage.
Why not make C++ the standard across all platforms? Add some more standard libraries and you've basically got the same situation, except with increased speed and interoperability with other pre-built functions.02-18-13 04:56 PMLike 0 - Superfly_FRRetired Moderator@jean-luc you're right, but you point the fragmentation, even if the effort is not huge. HTML5 will win the day it will disappear (for fondamental features)
Posted using CrackBerry App on BB1002-18-13 04:57 PMLike 0 -
-
- Superfly_FRRetired Moderator
Posted using CrackBerry App on BB1002-18-13 05:21 PMLike 0 -
Yes, all available HTML5 features can be used in Webworks apps. But not all Webworks features can be used in HTML5 web pages.
Case in point, the blackberry.ui.cover example that I mentioned earlier. 100% usable function call in my Webworks app. Completely unusable on a webpage running in the Blackberry browser.02-18-13 05:26 PMLike 0 - Superfly_FRRetired ModeratorLet me try to rephrase this...
Yes, all available HTML5 features can be used in Webworks apps. But not all Webworks features can be used in HTML5 web pages.
Case in point, the blackberry.ui.cover example that I mentioned earlier. 100% usable function call in my Webworks app. Completely unusable on a webpage running in the Blackberry browser.
Posted via CB1002-18-13 05:41 PMLike 0 - It was the point I was trying to make when I stated that there are many things you can do with apps that you can't with web pages. OS-level features are just one example.02-18-13 05:43 PMLike 0
- Superfly_FRRetired Moderator
Posted via CB1002-18-13 06:05 PMLike 0 -
- Only because there's a universal API. Just like file picker. Would be pretty boring if all devices only offered the exact same features though, no?02-18-13 06:20 PMLike 0
- Negative. Try something that's not native javascript. Try a call like blackberry.ui.cover
Your suggestion of only having to know different APIs would work with ANY programming language. HTML5 and JS/CSS have no advantage there except that they are used for the web. That is also their biggest disadvantage.
Why not make C++ the standard across all platforms? Add some more standard libraries and you've basically got the same situation, except with increased speed and interoperability with other pre-built functions.02-18-13 06:24 PMLike 0 - Superfly_FRRetired ModeratorBut anyway, let's get back on track. I think that it would be great to be able to convert iOS apps to HTML5, but I have serious doubts that it would be at all effective because of the huge variances between the languages. If they could get it to work though, it would be great for everyone because it would give everybody more apps (specifically the 2% of iOS apps that the developers would actually convert, but every little bit counts).
If there's iOs dev around willing to test-drive with a simple app, I could help on the HTML5/JS/CSS part ...02-19-13 01:53 AMLike 0 - @mike007
re-posted:
What apps have you made so I can check them out? Any for ios? What type of things can you do with native in your apps you couldn't do with the web? These would be much better arguments than labelling me as a BB fanboy (which I agree I am, they are just doing some amazing stuff no one else is). Have you seen BB10 ability to use the camera with HTML5 and have you seen bb10s HTML5 rating? pretty impressive. Do you think you cant do things with BB10 natively you cant do with the browser? What type of apps do you use/make that do not require an internet connection? Have you gone to the stub hub website on an iOS device?
Safari has a pretty bad HTML5 score. I thought Apple wanted to push HTML5. Could they have been lying? Because I can't imagine HTML5s emergence could be a good thing for their app store.
Edit:
@superfly
You pointed out web browsers used on desktops. I dont think this is really relevant here. I presume all the app developers here develop for mobile. This would have been a much better comparison and as you likely know most mobile platforms are near 400. Mobile is the future.
http://html5test.com/results/mobile.html02-19-13 09:53 AMLike 0 - Superfly_FRRetired ModeratorYou pointed out web browsers used on desktops. I dont think this is really relevant here. I presume all the app developers here develop for mobile. This would have been a much better comparison and as you likely know most mobile platforms are near 400. Mobile is the future.
The HTML5 test - How well does your browser support HTML5?
I firmly believe that HTML5 (and adaptative design) will explode the day we (web/mobile developers) can develop united "connected sites" for all worlds and devices. This is the promise of HTML5 ... whitch is just a number ... and mostly the so late emergence of a REAL standard. (crossing fingers)Last edited by Superfly_FR; 02-19-13 at 10:22 AM.
02-19-13 10:08 AMLike 0
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