[qbnkelt]

I agree. Current Blackberry customers don't care about/for apps. They've basically decided, "this is the way is is, I like it, I'm staying with it."

The problem is..... there's not enough of those customers to allow RIM to make money, let alone grow.

Addendum: When I was a kid, I had a friend, whose father bought into Betamax early on, and amassed a huge collection of Betamax movies. When he heard Sony had stopped making Betamax players, he went to an electronics store and literally bought them out, he bought like 50 of them and stashed them in a closet. When I last spoke to my friend, his father still had a couple dozen in his closet, unopened. I'm not sure how long RIM is going to continue making BBOS phones, but there's a good chance it will be sooner rather than later. Once BB10 is available, who's going to buy obsolete hardware? Even emerging markets can read the writing on the wall. I suggest the true diehards get ready to stash some Blackberries in their closets for the time to come.

Agreed, esp with bolded....

[Joy1980]

But it's not really about pleasing the negative nancies and to shut up the media, is it? It's about having devices that can compete against other flagship devices in order to gain back the 1 million that left last quarter, and to climb up from the single digit marketshare.
Consumers have decided what they want, and they want apps. Personally, I could not care less about Netfli or Angry Birds and Words with Friends and have only used Skype on my non BB phones once, regardless of how long I've had them. But I do enjoy Instagram and I do use WhatsApp. And my DC Transit app is extremely useful, and I'm the ultimate person who can attest to how it works for me and why I prefer it. Most people don't carry multiple personal devices on multiple platforms, they carry either one if they do their work out of their personal device or they use two, a personal device and a work issued device. Therefore most people won't carry a non BB device in order to gain access to the apps that they want and the platform lacks.
Because I like testing things for myself I've started using my SGIII as my primary device to see how I manage. And I manage just fine. Excepting for BBM and banking apps, I have lost nothing in changing from the 9900 as my primary device to my SGIII as my primary device. What I have gained is the convenience of apps that I had never used on my BB because they weren't there. Whether it's ordering a pizza on my phone or being able to plan my commute out of my device or editing and sharing pics with people on my Instagram contact list or groups, I am finding that all the noise about apps is due to convenience, ease of use, enhanced experience, and *choice.*
And if RIM is to stay alive, it needs to move away from the "why do I need an app when I can do things on my browser" mentality and apply it to the consumer market. Because the consumer market has left that line of thinking at least since 2009, when RIM was still claiming that Apple didn't know anything about the phone market.
History would tell RIM otherwise. While RIM is not responsible for which developers support BB10, it is undeniable that in order to survive it needs to, at the very least, match what other manufacturers offer. And according to what was widely reported, this "new RIM" will release a new OS that is meant to "leapfrog the competition."
Luckily, it will bring Instagram. Hopefully it will bring the other big apps that people want. Because at this point in time, primitive browser workarounds vs available apps will not gain it the 1 million back nor will it get it into the double digits in market share.
Whether what I'm saying is regarded as being a negative nancy is immaterial to me. I see RIM in a precarious position and I *need* it to come out of it because it is the means by which I communicate with loved ones across the pond. And I've got one loved one who will use nothing else because nothing else meets his needs. So....I am speaking out of urgency, not negativism.
Maintaining the status quo in terms of app availability and arguing for cumbersome browser work arounds is most decidedly not leapfrogging the competition. However unfair it may be to RIM considering that it cannot force dev support, it is a simple fact that consumers want apps. And those consumers will pay for the devices that give then what they want. And if they don't buy BBs because of lack of apps, BB won't survive in N.A.

I think you misunderstood what I meant to say. I want BB 10 to be judged fairly and not dismissed simply because it does not have the apps that people want. I get that apps are important and what I do not get is why people think that apps are the most important. For that to be true then the underlying OS is interchangeable and iOS and Android have already won and there is no reason why anyone should even try to distrupt them.

Take the apps away, there is something that each OS gives the user than makes them choose that platform. I would just like for people to stop looking at the apps and look at what the OS brings because that is what the company that made the OS is responsible for. RIM has bent over backwards to support the developers, more than they did before. They have gone to the devs instead of making them come to them. They have built tools that gives no developer an excuse not to build for the platform. I just want the platform to be judged on things they have control over. If the UI/UX is too difficult for people to get, then bash it for that. If it does not satisfy the needs of the people it is trying to serve, bash it for that. But do not bash an OS just because a developer decided not to support it.

I get some of these apps are useful and yes, some I would like to have access to. My stance is not from the hatred of apps or that I don't see the need for them. My stance is that I want them to have the apps that people want so that people will look past that and look at the OS. I just want it to be in a state that would allow people to give it a chance to determine if it is right for them or not. That is all I want.

[qbnkelt]

I think you misunderstood what I meant to say. I want BB 10 to be judged fairly and not dismissed simply because it does not have the apps that people want. I get that apps are important and what I do not get is why people think that apps are the most important. For that to be true then the underlying OS is interchangeable and iOS and Android have already won and there is no reason why anyone should even try to distrupt them.

Take the apps away, there is something that each OS gives the user than makes them choose that platform. I would just like for people to stop looking at the apps and look at what the OS brings because that is what the company that made the OS is responsible for. RIM has bent over backwards to support the developers, more than they did before. They have gone to the devs instead of making them come to them. They have built tools that gives no developer an excuse not to build for the platform. I just want the platform to be judged on things they have control over. If the UI/UX is too difficult for people to get, then bash it for that. If it does not satisfy the needs of the people it is trying to serve, bash it for that. But do not bash an OS just because a developer decided not to support it.

I get some of these apps are useful and yes, some I would like to have access to. My stance is not from the hatred of apps or that I don't see the need for them. My stance is that I want them to have the apps that people want so that people will look past that and look at the OS. I just want it to be in a state that would allow people to give it a chance to determine if it is right for them or not. That is all I want.

I understood you, and I agree completely esp with the bolded and highlighted.
We're on the same page.....I want to have RIM get a chance to be able to regain relevancy.
Trust me, I have a lot invested in that, in all kinds of ways.

[Roo Zilla]

I think you misunderstood what I meant to say. I want BB 10 to be judged fairly and not dismissed simply because it does not have the apps that people want. I get that apps are important and what I do not get is why people think that apps are the most important. For that to be true then the underlying OS is interchangeable and iOS and Android have already won and there is no reason why anyone should even try to distrupt them.

Let's take smartphones out of the equation for a moment and think about it in computing terms. What makes Windows a much more important computing platform than Linux or MacOS? Each has several advantages over Windows. Linux is FREE or CHEAP and much more secure than Windows. MacOS is feature packed and easier to use and comes in a nicer package. The single most important app in the age of the internet is the browser, and it's available on all platforms. Yet, Windows is the OS of choice for over 90% of consumer use, even beating out free and much cheaper alternatives.

I would argue that it's the apps. Windows gets every app any major third party developer makes. Sure the alternative OSes have things to offer, Linux is secure, highly customizable, and comes in many variations suited for just about any consumer use, they even have ones with Windows emulators in them. Yet its market share is less than MacOS. People want apps. It doesn't change because the computing platform is in your hand instead of a desk. In the end, what do you use a computer for? It's for the apps. Who sits there and just stares at the OS screen and says "ooooooohhhh niceeeeeee....."? Nobody.

[belfastdispatcher]

Let's take smartphones out of the equation for a moment and think about it in computing terms. What makes Windows a much more important computing platform than Linux or MacOS? Each has several advantages over Windows. Linux is FREE or CHEAP and much more secure than Windows. MacOS is feature packed and easier to use and comes in a nicer package. The single most important app in the age of the internet is the browser, and it's available on all platforms. Yet, Windows is the OS of choice for over 90% of consumer use, even beating out free and much cheaper alternatives.

I would argue that it's the apps. Windows gets every app any major third party developer makes. Sure the alternative OSes have things to offer, Linux is secure, highly customizable, and comes in many variations suited for just about any consumer use, they even have ones with Windows emulators in them. Yet its market share is less than MacOS. People want apps. It doesn't change because the computing platform is in your hand instead of a desk. In the end, what do you use a computer for? It's for the apps. Who sits there and just stares at the OS screen and says "ooooooohhhh niceeeeeee....."? Nobody.

I have surprisingly very few apps on my windows laptop:
Thunderbird, itunes, audible, calibre and open office, that's all.

[OniBerry]

I think you misunderstood what I meant to say. I want BB 10 to be judged fairly and not dismissed simply because it does not have the apps that people want. I get that apps are important and what I do not get is why people think that apps are the most important. For that to be true then the underlying OS is interchangeable and iOS and Android have already won and there is no reason why anyone should even try to distrupt them.

Take the apps away, there is something that each OS gives the user than makes them choose that platform. I would just like for people to stop looking at the apps and look at what the OS brings because that is what the company that made the OS is responsible for. RIM has bent over backwards to support the developers, more than they did before. They have gone to the devs instead of making them come to them. They have built tools that gives no developer an excuse not to build for the platform. I just want the platform to be judged on things they have control over. If the UI/UX is too difficult for people to get, then bash it for that. If it does not satisfy the needs of the people it is trying to serve, bash it for that. But do not bash an OS just because a developer decided not to support it.

I get some of these apps are useful and yes, some I would like to have access to. My stance is not from the hatred of apps or that I don't see the need for them. My stance is that I want them to have the apps that people want so that people will look past that and look at the OS. I just want it to be in a state that would allow people to give it a chance to determine if it is right for them or not. That is all I want.

OS7 has the same problem. People say there are not enough apps in App World, The apps consumers (some) feel are important or needed, are simply not there. That has been a complaint for awhile now. If the small selection of apps is/was the biggest complaint, then I will would try to address that issue. Like it or not, the number and type of apps will always be an issue.

You can't take the apps away.

Every app that someone uses on their device, is considered needed or useful. Small selection of apps available? Important apps not in app world? Consumers will look elsewhere. Doesn't matter if your OS is amazing or not. It's not a difficult concept. The consumer doesn't care what you have to do to offer them, either the same or a similar services that they are used to on other platforms. Apps count for much, when someone is deciding to move to another platform. Giving BB10 a fair shake means that RIM has to attract all the major devs they can while trying to negotiate deals with major players. There is no way to separate apps from the OS.

[Roo Zilla]

I have surprisingly very few apps on my windows laptop:
Thunderbird, itunes, audible, calibre and open office, that's all.

All of these apps, except maybe iTunes, are also available for Linux, and if not, alternatives exist. Yet you use Windows. Perhaps just as important as using the apps themselves is the knowledge that the apps exist for if/when you want them. A small part might be the learning curve involved in learning a new OS, although most of Linux is pretty simple if you've used Windows.

There is one thing I forgot to mention...... which might be almost as important as the apps. It's the hardware. If you buy a new printer, you KNOW it will work with Windows, with Linux, not so much. That goes for any type of hardware, including esoteric stuff like 3D printers and robots. Basically, it's the whole ecosystem argument again.

[WrightWords]

And before I give the wrong impression....I LOVE MY BB. But I am not blind to its deficiencies when compared to my SGIII or my iPhone. Lack of apps is a deficiency.

ohhh.....and don't underestimate the sheer wonder of being able to order a hand tossed deep dish pizza with extra cheese and no meat via your iPhone or SGIII...Nirvana.....necessary? Absolutely not. Does it validate me as a human being??? Of course not. Convenient? Yah.. Do I choose devices in part to make things convenient? Ya betcha.

I am seriously torn about the Z10. I have only ever and always had a Blackberry, for almost 11 years now. Had a few cellphones alongside, but never been without a BB. Bought my personal Bold the day I left the job that had paid for a BB for 6-1/2 years. Bought a 9900 when it came out. And I have a 64-gb Playbook.

BUT ...

I want apps. I want Audible, and Netflix and Skype and Yahoo IM and Instagram and Words with Friends and DrawSomething... all those things that keep me having fun and in touch with the people I know around the world ... most of whom have those things.

Yeah, BB lets me do work stuff faster. But I am not getting 300+ emails a day any more, I am not writing briefing notes or speeches or annual reports on it. I am consulting, but it's at a pace much much slower.

and so ... as I type this I realize I am ready for a FUN phone.

And I am not convinced that the Z10 will be that phone .... ......

so I wait and hope and cross my fingers and line up a grief counselor for Jan 31!!

Because I don't think the Z10 is going to be as FUN as my daughter's Galaxy S III - and that leaves me feeling a bit lost.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

All of these apps, except maybe iTunes, are also available for Linux, and if not, alternatives exist. Yet you use Windows. Perhaps just as important as using the apps themselves is the knowledge that the apps exist for if/when you want them. A small part might be the learning curve involved in learning a new OS, although most of Linux is pretty simple if you've used Windows.

There is one thing I forgot to mention...... which might be almost as important as the apps. It's the hardware. If you buy a new printer, you KNOW it will work with Windows, with Linux, not so much. That goes for any type of hardware, including esoteric stuff like 3D printers and robots. Basically, it's the whole ecosystem argument again.

Yeah a family member just bought a new printer... it will allow a iPhone or iPad to print directly to it over his home wireless network. Very cool, and a necessary feature. Many young people today may never even own a traditional computer.