1. dlight57's Avatar
    So about 6 years ago i had a storm 2 and was so frustrated about how many features I was missing compared to my teammates who had the Moto Droid and the iPhone, (mainly the webkit based web browser).

    I made a post that is screenshoted below basically saying how I felt the storm two was being hampered by the blackberry software and ecosystem. I suggested a scenario in which it ran Android, people at the time thought It was a crazy idea, but we all know that eventually would be the direction the company would go in.

    So my question is do you think we would have a more robust blackberry phone market had they made the pivot in 2010 vs now ?

    If the storm was released running Android-screenshot_20171219-195150.jpgClick image for larger version. 

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    12-19-17 08:08 PM
  2. Bla1ze's Avatar
    So my question is do you think we would have a more robust blackberry phone market had they made the pivot in 2010 vs now ?
    Probably.
    12-19-17 08:25 PM
  3. app_Developer's Avatar
    I’m pretty sure they would have sold more phones if they had gone to Android earlier.

    I don’t know if it would have been enough to save the phone division.
    12-19-17 08:51 PM
  4. Invictus0's Avatar
    They weren't really hurting for sales at the time but I think a BlackBerry that went Android in 2010 could have taken on HTC and Motorola. As you mentioned, many complaints from that time were that BBOS was lacking features compared to iOS and Android.

    Whether they could have secured Android at the time though is a different story. Monthly updates, full disk encryption, etc are relatively new additions to Android (~4.4 to 5.0).
    12-19-17 09:51 PM
  5. Ment's Avatar
    they probably would've been the defacto enterprise phone for 5 more years but the consumer market is so much bigger. I doubt if they'd have flipped to Android then that corporate culture would have allowed them to iterate as fast as their Android competitors for consumers.
    Bbnivende likes this.
    12-19-17 10:04 PM
  6. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Had they started Android division separate from BBOS and developed BBAndroid instead of BB10, the company would be in far better shape financially than now if practicing similar economic discipline as they do now. I'm not sure how strong a player they would be as OEM because, as company, BlackBerry was then and is now a small player from economic resource standpoint.

    Eventually the move from BBOS and BIS would hamper BlackBerry revenues just as if BB10 had been successfully adopted OS.

    At its peak, 80 million users annual BIS revenue, was incredible huge and profitable as software goes. Hardware, ALWAYS was and is the problem for all OEMs, not just BlackBerry.

    Any OS without BIS revenue would be like having your only drinking supply being salt water and no practical desalination solutions available....
    12-20-17 10:15 AM
  7. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Andrew McCreath
    https://www.bnn.ca/video/~1288543
    McCreath: 75% of BlackBerry's revenues now recurring
    BNN Commentator Andrew McCreath discusses the latest quarterly earnings from BlackBerry as they beat estimates.

    Just copied this from another thread courtesy of CB member Corbu. This illustrates what I mentioned above regarding BIS revenue and it's value to BlackBerry profits.

    Hardware provided revenue but even in the best of times doesn't help with profits or positive cash flow much, when they even provide instead of losses and negative cash flow in more common normal scenarios.
    12-20-17 10:19 AM
  8. kvndoom's Avatar
    They not only would have done better with phone sales, they might have had better overall success with BB10 a few years later. BB10, without the runtime, could have been sold as a closed, secured platform for business purposes only. Its app catalog would have been more tightly controlled and limited only to apps which fell in line with the "secure business" nature of the OS. (instead of the tens of thousands of city guides and "Snake" clones infesting BBWorld nowadays) BBAndroid would have been more consumer-friendly to compete with iphones and Droids.
    12-20-17 10:26 AM
  9. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    They not only would have done better with phone sales, they might have had better overall success with BB10 a few years later. BB10, without the runtime, could have been sold as a closed, secured platform for business purposes only. Its app catalog would have been more tightly controlled and limited only to apps which fell in line with the "secure business" nature of the OS. (instead of the tens of thousands of city guides and "Snake" clones infesting BBWorld nowadays) BBAndroid would have been more consumer-friendly to compete with iphones and Droids.
    That could have led to recurring income but not sure if development costs would ever be recouped. BB10 problems created was 1. Initial cost. 2. Recurring maintenance/future improvement costs. 3. Recurring income.

    Initial Early BlackBerry Android fixes most of 1 and 2. Item 3 is the (B)ig one. Like Billions with a B....
    12-20-17 10:32 AM
  10. kb5zht's Avatar
    Not to start a flame war, but I had high hopes for QNX. I can't help but think they simply didn't do their best and the platform failed therefore.
    12-24-17 09:59 AM
  11. kev6n's Avatar
    Storm is the worst touchsreen phone i ever use. Surepress is not working as it promise. Even in Android,I don't think i will become a good phone(Unless remove the Surepress)

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    12-24-17 11:04 AM
  12. Emaderton3's Avatar
    Not to start a flame war, but I had high hopes for QNX. I can't help but think they simply didn't do their best and the platform failed therefore.
    QNX is very successful. I assume you mean OS10.
    12-24-17 11:08 AM
  13. JulesDB's Avatar
    they would have done better if the Z10 had been in place of the Storm in 2010

    Posted via CB10
    12-24-17 04:13 PM
  14. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    they would have done better if the Z10 had been in place of the Storm in 2010

    Posted via CB10
    Only if the Z10 had Android. BB10 would still be 2-3 years late because Android would always have the free licensing advantage with ecosystem over BB10. Plus, Apple, Google, and Microsoft enjoyed the advantages of growing piles of cash every month from other lines of revenue. Leaving BIS revenue behind was never option for BlackBerry.
    12-25-17 10:22 PM
  15. JulesDB's Avatar
    Only if the Z10 had Android. BB10 would still be 2-3 years late because Android would always have the free licensing advantage with ecosystem over BB10. Plus, Apple, Google, and Microsoft enjoyed the advantages of growing piles of cash every month from other lines of revenue. Leaving BIS revenue behind was never option for BlackBerry.
    No.

    I'm talking about 2010, when the big names like instagram or snapchat weren't there yet.

    In 2010 Android ecosystem was not that good and BlackBerry would absolutelely catch up.

    Also, in 2010 Blackberry users were millions and still on BIS and they would pass on the new OS easily.
    And still that year RIM was plenty of money thanx to BIS service.

    They completed the acquisition of QNX and then developed BB10 only two years after in 2013: too late to compete with the 2 established players...

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by JulesDB; 12-26-17 at 04:39 AM.
    12-26-17 02:57 AM
  16. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    No.

    I'm talking about 2010, when the big names like instagram or snapchat weren't there yet.

    In 2010 Android ecosystem was not that good and BlackBerry would absolutelely catch up.

    Also, in 2010 Blackberry users were millions and still on BIS and they would pass on the new OS easily.
    And still that year RIM was plenty of money thanx to BIS service.

    They completed the acquisition of QNX and then developed BB10 only two years after in 2013: too late to compete with the 2 established players...

    Posted via CB10
    From the beginning, there is only room for two mobile OS. BlackBerry has to develop the second mobile OS in any scenario or it ultimately fails because app developers won't support the ecosystem. It's the same reason for Microsoft failure.

    When Apple came out with IOS, the proprietary ecosystem model became theirs over all the other mobile OS players unless somebody eliminates them with a better ecosystem.

    When Google bought Android then, gave it away free, they became the second mobile OS for developers to support unless somebody eliminates them instead with, you guessed it, a better ecosystem.

    This all has to happen in 2007-2008 because in 2009-2010 time frame, the Android/IOS ecosystem has developed too much support and even Microsoft can't throw enough money at the problem. The Apple/IOS ecosystem was not all fleshed out, but developers were too invested to walk away from Android/IOS to support even Microsoft.

    It's a similar type strategy employed by Microsoft/Apple in the non-mobile OS competitive phase of the 80's and 90's. The only difference is that Google upped the strategy by giving the mobile OS away free and charging for the ecosystem access instead.

    The IOT strategy and some new disruption like automotive software could be the change BlackBerry needs for someone to make QNX the standard. Unfortunately, like before, the company lacks the economic size and resources to compete with the other players.

    This problem is what hampered BlackBerry from the beginning. It's why they patent enforce strongly. BlackBerry needs the licensing revenue because its their only revenue stream to speak of. The carriers didn't want to pay it, so Android/IOS developed their system of revenue without it. Microsoft didn't require it but were slower to embrace the mobile OS shift of Google and didn't think far enough outside the box, farther away from the box, into the future where there was no box at least temporarily.

    Eventually Google will be like Microsoft before and people will love to hate. Unfortunately, the big three have resources, other companies have resources, and BlackBerry has little in the way of resources. This is why Chen was hired to save BlackBerry for sale.
    12-26-17 07:22 AM
  17. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    In 2009 (when STROM2 was released), don't think BlackBerry could have secured Android for enterprise. They would have been a few years locking it down like Silent Circle did. End result would not have been a consumer friendly product. It's really been Google's work to make Android more enterprise friendly that allowed BlackBerry in 2015 release a secured product.

    STROM2 with vanilla Android.... would have been overpriced and underpowered hardware that couldn't compete in the consumer market and had no place in enterprise.

    In the end BlackBerry was BIS.... as technology (ActiveSync, 4G) made that obsolete, so was too did BlackBerry become. Would have been a different trip, but end result would have been the same.

    Time to "save" BlackBerry was 2004/2005....
    12-26-17 09:15 AM
  18. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    In 2009 (when STROM2 was released), don't think BlackBerry could have secured Android for enterprise. They would have been a few years locking it down like Silent Circle did. End result would not have been a consumer friendly product. It's really been Google's work to make Android more enterprise friendly that allowed BlackBerry in 2015 release a secured product.

    STROM2 with vanilla Android.... would have been overpriced and underpowered hardware that couldn't compete in the consumer market and had no place in enterprise.

    In the end BlackBerry was BIS.... as technology (ActiveSync, 4G) made that obsolete, so was too did BlackBerry become. Would have been a different trip, but end result would have been the same.

    Time to "save" BlackBerry was 2004/2005....
    You said what I was going for quicker and simpler. BlackBerry and BIS/BES were it. They were a one hit wonder.....
    12-26-17 10:54 AM

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