1. mithrazor's Avatar
    Now that there are rumors that BlackBerry will come out with an Android device, does that mean the Android Runtime in BlackBerry 10 is going to be removed?

    In order for them to sell an Android handset this is one of the requirements from Google to do so.

    If they remove the Android Runtime, what did John Chen mean when he said he has something lined up for the apps situation??

    The plot just thickens 😲

    Posted via CB10
    06-18-15 10:51 AM
  2. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    BB10 without a runtime would be crippled to the point it would be almost useless... with no hope of developers filling in the gaps.

    IF BlackBerry is moving to Android.... it would be the end of BB10.

    IF BlackBerry is going to "partner" with Samsung or another manufacture to build an Android device with some BlackBerry features... it would still be the end of BB10.

    IF BlackBerry stays the course and keeps making BB10 devices, and sales stay where they are or continue to fall... it would still be the end of BB10. The cost to continue development and supporting of their own platform most likely already exceeds the revenues they make on hardware. But for now it is a "loss leader" to BES Services...

    Really the only difference is timing.... will BB10 get cancled in 6 months or 2 years.
    06-18-15 11:40 AM
  3. ubizmo's Avatar
    Would OHA rules require the removal of the Android runtime from all existing supported BB10 phones, or only from all BB10 phones going forward from the time of joining the OHA?

    If BlackBerry had to push out an update to delete the runtime from all existing BB10 phones, that would be...apocalyptic!
    06-18-15 12:48 PM
  4. tahabashir1991's Avatar
    As much as I am concerned in bb10 I donot even use a single app of android so for me there is no change if they remove it or not I use facebook whatsapp and few emails regularly and instagram via igrann

    And I don't know if they had to remove android runtime if they build android smart phone... as far as I know the loyal people who keep their blackberry is for communication and physical keyboard as required during daily work by business man... few people bought bb10 to use android apps on it not all

    Posted via CB10
    06-18-15 01:01 PM
  5. CrackberryQ's Avatar
    Or the android run time will start including Google play services, and using hypervisor tech. Full android will run within the boundaries of BB10.

    Posted via CB10
    06-18-15 01:04 PM
  6. javijavimartin's Avatar
    What if the new BlackBerry Android Phone were built by Samsung and "powered by BlackBerry"?
    I mean, that way BlackBerry would be able to maintain the android runtime...
    Or even better, what if it were built by RIM?
    06-18-15 01:08 PM
  7. Ment's Avatar
    Or the android run time will start including Google play services, and using hypervisor tech. Full android will run within the boundaries of BB10.

    Posted via CB10
    Never. Google won't allow it to be a secondary OS on any device it approves.
    06-18-15 01:14 PM
  8. Ment's Avatar
    Would OHA rules require the removal of the Android runtime from all existing supported BB10 phones, or only from all BB10 phones going forward from the time of joining the OHA?

    If BlackBerry had to push out an update to delete the runtime from all existing BB10 phones, that would be...apocalyptic!
    Google would require any future BB10 to be stripped of the runtime so to keep it you have to not upgrade.
    06-18-15 01:20 PM
  9. kellyTKD's Avatar
    Google would require any future BB10 to be stripped of the runtime so to keep it you have to not upgrade.
    Then it would be just a matter of how long you want to use a smartphone without upgrading the OS.
    06-18-15 01:32 PM
  10. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Would OHA rules require the removal of the Android runtime from all existing supported BB10 phones, or only from all BB10 phones going forward from the time of joining the OHA?

    If BlackBerry had to push out an update to delete the runtime from all existing BB10 phones, that would be...apocalyptic!
    I would think that OHA rules would only apply from the point you become a member forward. Can't see them removing the Android Runtime, but I can see the development of BB10 ending at that time - any updates would most likely only be security related.

    But if BlackBerry were considering doing this there would be signs that we could recognize far in advance. They would be laying off BB10 developers and any other programs that support BB10 like native developer tools. They would be encouraging 3rd party developers to build apps for Android. And they would be working on a stable update without going into major UI changes or additional features. They wouldn't put out a platform road map with any new features or key changes coming like the move to 64Bit. You would see fewer BB10 version on the test servers as development was scaled back. And they would cut back on discussing BB10 as a platform. And they would need to work closely with Google so that Android could integrate with BES to meet higher security standards.

    So no need to worry until you start seeing BlackBerry doing things like this.
    06-18-15 02:26 PM
  11. Bonsaibo's Avatar
    I would think that OHA rules would only apply from the point you become a member forward. Can't see them removing the Android Runtime, but I can see the development of BB10 ending at that time - any updates would most likely only be security related.

    But if BlackBerry were considering doing this there would be signs that we could recognize far in advance. They would be laying off BB10 developers and any other programs that support BB10 like native developer tools. They would be encouraging 3rd party developers to build apps for Android. And they would be working on a stable update without going into major UI changes or additional features. They wouldn't put out a platform road map with any new features or key changes coming like the move to 64Bit. You would see fewer BB10 version on the test servers as development was scaled back. And they would cut back on discussing BB10 as a platform. And they would need to work closely with Google so that Android could integrate with BES to meet higher security standards.

    So no need to worry until you start seeing BlackBerry doing things like this.
    I see what you did there! Very nice.
    06-18-15 02:33 PM
  12. Kurdis Blough's Avatar
    I would think that OHA rules would only apply from the point you become a member forward. Can't see them removing the Android Runtime, but I can see the development of BB10 ending at that time - any updates would most likely only be security related.

    But if BlackBerry were considering doing this there would be signs that we could recognize far in advance. They would be laying off BB10 developers and any other programs that support BB10 like native developer tools. They would be encouraging 3rd party developers to build apps for Android. And they would be working on a stable update without going into major UI changes or additional features. They wouldn't put out a platform road map with any new features or key changes coming like the move to 64Bit. You would see fewer BB10 version on the test servers as development was scaled back. And they would cut back on discussing BB10 as a platform. And they would need to work closely with Google so that Android could integrate with BES to meet higher security standards.

    So no need to worry until you start seeing BlackBerry doing things like this.
    These are very compelling indications that major changes are coming.

    I don't think that BlackBerry has settled on any specific date certain for a switch to Android though. They haven't notified users of EOL for current OS updates. As a poster above mentioned announcement of ART removal or EOL for devices released thus far would be an apocalyptic scenario for current users.

    All speculation of course, but I think these initial rumors are referring to early BlackBerry prototypes and a soon to be released Samsung branded device.

    !
    06-18-15 03:53 PM
  13. RLTurn77's Avatar
    The OP is correct that BlackBerry CANNOT use a dual boot BB10/Android or even put out an Android device without removing the runtime from BB10 which would devastate the OS.

    The only thing in this thread that would comply with Google would be if the device was Samsung branded with a BlackBerry experience and BlackBerry put out there own BB10 device branded under BlackBerry.

    BlackBerry cannot build a device using Android as the OS without removing the runtime from BB10 as it currently stands. Keep in mind that BlackBerry made the statement that they are committed to BB10 when the Android rumors surfaced. We'll have to wait and see how this plays out.

    This is how it stands right now unless for some reason the Google partnership with BlackBerry securing Android for enterprise somehow convinces Google to change their terms which is highly unlikely.

    I think many don't understand or know this and need to keep this in mind when speculating about the future of the BlackBerry handset division.

    Posted via CB10
    06-18-15 03:54 PM
  14. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    We've all been operating on the idea that the whole point of releasing an Android phone would be to get Google Service and Play Store access. Certainly, if you were releasing an Android phone in Western markets, this would be the only way it would make sense.

    Obviously, that would require BB join the OHA, which would mean the end of the Android Runtime on BB10 (which would essentially be the end of BB10, if not immediately, then not long after). And, no, you cannot use the Hypervisor or a dual-boot solution and be OHA-compliant.

    But based on the current information that this Android phone is to be a low-end device and only sold in emerging markets, I suspect that BB is actually only putting a toe into the Android waters, and is making their version of the Nokia X. In other words, I suspect that they're going to make a Z3/Leap-type device (probably to try to burn up more of those S4's they must have piled up) that's running an Android fork, and will have the Amazon Marketplace slapped on it as the app solution. Being that it will be a true Android phone, there won't be developers blocking the app from the app store, and most apps would be there.

    The good news for BB10 fans is that this wouldn't impact BB10 at all. The question, then, is: can BB actually SELL any of these phones? I suspect that they'd be very, very slow-selling devices, given the competition. Who would buy a BB/Amazon/Android phone over a Moto G? I suspect not many. But, who knows?

    But this scenario now seems more likely to me than BB going OHA. If they were making a phone for Western markets, then going OHA would be pretty much required, and it sounds like they aren't willing to go there.
    filmgirl likes this.
    06-18-15 03:54 PM
  15. AluminiumRims's Avatar
    I hope the remove the Android runtime. It was a bad idea to have it there from the beginning and the only thing it does is hurting the native ecosystem.
    06-18-15 04:02 PM
  16. Kurdis Blough's Avatar
    We've all been operating on the idea that the whole point of releasing an Android phone would be to get Google Service and Play Store access. Certainly, if you were releasing an Android phone in Western markets, this would be the only way it would make sense.

    Obviously, that would require BB join the OHA, which would mean the end of the Android Runtime on BB10 (which would essentially be the end of BB10, if not immediately, then not long after). And, no, you cannot use the Hypervisor or a dual-boot solution and be OHA-compliant.

    But based on the current information that this Android phone is to be a low-end device and only sold in emerging markets, I suspect that BB is actually only putting a toe into the Android waters, and is making their version of the Nokia X. In other words, I suspect that they're going to make a Z3/Leap-type device (probably to try to burn up more of those S4's they must have piled up) that's running an Android fork, and will have the Amazon Marketplace slapped on it as the app solution. Being that it will be a true Android phone, there won't be developers blocking the app from the app store, and most apps would be there.

    The good news for BB10 fans is that this wouldn't impact BB10 at all. The question, then, is: can BB actually SELL any of these phones? I suspect that they'd be very, very slow-selling devices, given the competition. Who would buy a BB/Amazon/Android phone over a Moto G? I suspect not many. But, who knows?

    But this scenario now seems more likely to me than BB going OHA. If they were making a phone for Western markets, then going OHA would be pretty much required, and it sounds like they aren't willing to go there.
    I tend to agree with your analysis.

    It's unfortunate though. They should really release a compelling high end device and market heavily. An Android device targeted to emerging markets stripped of Google play is a
    Sure way to lose given blackberry's inability to compete with the pricing of competitors in that space.

    Entry level Android devices like the Moto E/G are too good at this point.

    !
    06-18-15 04:13 PM
  17. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    We've all been operating on the idea that the whole point of releasing an Android phone would be to get Google Service and Play Store access. Certainly, if you were releasing an Android phone in Western markets, this would be the only way it would make sense.

    Obviously, that would require BB join the OHA, which would mean the end of the Android Runtime on BB10 (which would essentially be the end of BB10, if not immediately, then not long after). And, no, you cannot use the Hypervisor or a dual-boot solution and be OHA-compliant.

    But based on the current information that this Android phone is to be a low-end device and only sold in emerging markets, I suspect that BB is actually only putting a toe into the Android waters, and is making their version of the Nokia X. In other words, I suspect that they're going to make a Z3/Leap-type device (probably to try to burn up more of those S4's they must have piled up) that's running an Android fork, and will have the Amazon Marketplace slapped on it as the app solution. Being that it will be a true Android phone, there won't be developers blocking the app from the app store, and most apps would be there.

    The good news for BB10 fans is that this wouldn't impact BB10 at all. The question, then, is: can BB actually SELL any of these phones? I suspect that they'd be very, very slow-selling devices, given the competition. Who would buy a BB/Amazon/Android phone over a Moto G? I suspect not many. But, who knows?

    But this scenario now seems more likely to me than BB going OHA. If they were making a phone for Western markets, then going OHA would be pretty much required, and it sounds like they aren't willing to go there.
    That scenario makes no sense at all to me....

    Even if they could shave $50 of the Z3 price, it wouldn't sell in those markets. It's not about brand loyaltiy it is about getting a devices that does what a user wants for the least amount. BIS devices did that in the long term by being cheaper to operate, even if they were more expensive. But BB10 devices, and BB Android devices would cost the same to operate,
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    06-19-15 08:16 AM
  18. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    That scenario makes no sense at all to me....

    Even if they could shave $50 of the Z3 price, it wouldn't sell in those markets. It's not about brand loyaltiy it is about getting a devices that does what a user wants for the least amount. BIS devices did that in the long term by being cheaper to operate, even if they were more expensive. But BB10 devices, and BB Android devices would cost the same to operate,
    Agreed.
    A low cost emerging market device is DOA.
    BlackBerry simply can't go low enough with their prices.

    If they are not trying to sell expensive Android niche devices with keyboards (expensive as in, not emerging markets cheap), then the whole move to Android wouldn't make any sense.
    06-19-15 08:27 AM
  19. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    Troy,

    I would like to read the terms and conditions of the OHA myself.
    Perhaps others would like to as well.
    Would you provide a link to the relevant document?

    Please and Thanks,

    DrBoomBotz
    06-19-15 09:07 AM
  20. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Troy,

    I would like to read the terms and conditions of the OHA myself.
    Perhaps others would like to as well.
    Would you provide a link to the relevant document?

    Please and Thanks,

    DrBoomBotz
    You can Google for the publicly-available information, but the actual terms for getting Google Services has not been made public. In order to see the agreement, you have to submit your device and compatibility report to Google and request OHA membership. I'm going by everything I've read from reporters who have gotten information from manufacturers and/or Google - much of which have been reported on CB's sister site Android Central.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt and DrBoomBotz like this.
    06-19-15 11:59 AM
  21. Soulstream's Avatar
    That scenario makes no sense at all to me....

    Even if they could shave $50 of the Z3 price, it wouldn't sell in those markets. It's not about brand loyaltiy it is about getting a devices that does what a user wants for the least amount. BIS devices did that in the long term by being cheaper to operate, even if they were more expensive. But BB10 devices, and BB Android devices would cost the same to operate,
    I agree with what you said. What would actually be the difference between a pure Android fork phone and BB10? Actually at this point an Android fork would be worse than BB10. In those markets there are Android manufacturers who produce dirt cheap phones, that while run very poorly still have Google play services. An android fork holds absolutely no advantage.
    06-19-15 12:46 PM
  22. Fidel Mercado's Avatar
    The only way to have an Android handset AND keep the Android runtime. Is to create an Andoid OS that is not OHA compliant-which means run an Android fork.

    Solution:. The most mature Android fork is Amazon's Fire OS. If Blackberry created a handset that ran Fire OS, they would have access to Android apps that are blocked from the runtime. They would not have Google play services BUT BB and Amazon could partner together to create an Android variant that could attempt to challenge Google (optimistically). This partnership is a win win for Amazon and BlackBerry and allows Blackberry to keep the runtime.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    06-19-15 08:44 PM
  23. KR2013's Avatar
    Solution:. The most mature Android fork is Amazon's Fire OS. If Blackberry created a handset that ran Fire OS, they would have access to Android apps that are blocked from the runtime. They would not have Google play services BUT BB and Amazon could partner together to create an Android variant that could attempt to challenge Google (optimistically). This partnership is a win win for Amazon and BlackBerry and allows Blackberry to keep the runtime.
    That sounds like an uphill battle to me!
    06-19-15 08:55 PM
  24. Ment's Avatar
    The only way to have an Android handset AND keep the Android runtime. Is to create an Andoid OS that is not OHA compliant-which means run an Android fork.

    Solution:. The most mature Android fork is Amazon's Fire OS. If Blackberry created a handset that ran Fire OS, they would have access to Android apps that are blocked from the runtime. They would not have Google play services BUT BB and Amazon could partner together to create an Android variant that could attempt to challenge Google (optimistically). This partnership is a win win for Amazon and BlackBerry and allows Blackberry to keep the runtime.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    Do you realize that Amazon with all their money, just now is distributing a dev version of Lollipop 5.0 FireOS and it won't be in devices until well after Android M drops? This is because all the work that has to go into forking and duplicating the services that Google already provides to OHA members and devices that conform to OHA rules. That is a huge disadvantage from the manufacturer down to the consumer. Who wants to be perpetually behind when the choice is clear?
    filmgirl likes this.
    06-19-15 10:18 PM
  25. filmgirl's Avatar
    Do you realize that Amazon with all their money, just now is distributing a dev version of Lollipop 5.0 FireOS and it won't be in devices until well after Android M drops? This is because all the work that has to go into forking and duplicating the services that Google already provides to OHA members and devices that conform to OHA rules. That is a huge disadvantage from the manufacturer down to the consumer. Who wants to be perpetually behind when the choice is clear?
    Exactly. The only fork with any chance of working in the emerging markets (remember, FireOS is built to tie in with an Amazon account. Most of Amazon's digital services aren't even accessible in emerging markets -- and most emerging markets don't have heavy/any Amazon usage) is Cyanogen.

    Cyanogen is gaining tons of traction and will have the third-party app stores necessary in those markets. The problem is then BlackBerry has no differentiator. Like why would I buy a BlackBerry running Cyanogen over a MicroMax device that is likely cheaper.

    And let's hope BlackBerry is smart enough not to try to maintain an Android fork itself. It already can't keep the runtime in BB10 up to date. If you are going to make an Android device in 2015, it's base better be at least Android 5.
    06-19-15 10:36 PM

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