1. ranzabar's Avatar
    Expected

    Posted via my BlackBerry Z10
    11-13-13 08:30 AM
  2. guitarrista's Avatar
    Selling millions of units is irrelevant? Wow. Going forward, and stuff. Totally man.
    Yep, irrelevant. And thanks for the snark. It's charming.
    11-13-13 08:44 AM
  3. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Selling millions of units is irrelevant? Wow. Going forward, and stuff. Totally man.
    After being on the market for 9+ months, the TOTAL sales of BB10 phones is 3M or less. To put that in perspective, Apple sold 9M iPhones over a 3-day weekend when the 5s and 5c were launched, and there are that many Android devices activated every TWO DAYS.

    Compared to that, BB10 sales ARE so low that they are irrelevant to the rest of the market. Hell, the Nexus 4 by itself, ONE PHONE, outsold BB10 over the same period, and the Nexus 4 has an advertising budget of ZERO (it relies on the tech press and word-of-mouth for sales).

    This is why I roll my eyes when someone talks about Google or Apple or Samsung or Microsoft conspiracies to harm BB in some way, especially them "paying for" some plan to kill BB: BB is not even on their radar, and BB has shown that the best way to harm BB is to leave BB alone and let them drive their own company into the ground.

    I know that sounds harsh, but the facts are there for anyone to see.
    11-13-13 12:00 PM
  4. David Murray1's Avatar
    Your definition of 'irrelevant' is 'fails to compete directly with Apple and Google'. You must own stocks and not care about consumer choice. It's your opinions that are 'irrelevant here'.
    Karan Mohal likes this.
    11-13-13 01:25 PM
  5. darkehawke's Avatar
    Your definition of 'irrelevant' is 'fails to compete directly with Apple and Google'. You must own stocks and not care about consumer choice. It's your opinions that are 'irrelevant here'.
    lol what the heck are you talking about...
    richardat likes this.
    11-13-13 01:48 PM
  6. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Your definition of 'irrelevant' is 'fails to compete directly with Apple and Google'. You must own stocks and not care about consumer choice. It's your opinions that are 'irrelevant here'.
    I said "irrelevant TO THE MARKET", not to you or me. BB10's marketshare is a fraction of 1%. That's irrelevant in the market by anyone's definition.
    11-13-13 01:52 PM
  7. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Your definition of 'irrelevant' is 'fails to compete directly with Apple and Google'. You must own stocks and not care about consumer choice. It's your opinions that are 'irrelevant here'.
    Irrelevant - as in 1.7% of the market down from 4.1%, which was bad enough, last year. Irrelevant, as in WP is now firmly in third place. Irrelevant, as in lower than Nokia. You know....the company that is hanging by a thread and Microsoft had to save. THAT irrelevant.
    Last edited by qbnkelt; 11-13-13 at 02:34 PM.
    11-13-13 02:11 PM
  8. qbnkelt's Avatar
    In case there are any questions as to why the word "irrelevancy" is appropriate, from the article:

    BlackBerry recorded the largest year-over-year decline among the leading operating systems during 3Q13. Underpinning its results was softer demand for its new BB10 operating system and continued demand for its older BB7 within emerging markets. Now with a new CEO in place and an infusion of $1 billion, what remains to be seen is how and when the beleaguered operating system will be able to change course in the face of mounting pressure from Android, iOS, and Windows Phone.

    Also - we've got that $1 billion "infusion." So....1.7% market share and an "infusion" of one billion bucks. Someone really want to try to say that the situation is not quite rosey?

    Oh....shall we debunk once and for all that idiocy that is StatsCounter?
    11-13-13 02:29 PM
  9. cgk's Avatar
    Selling millions of units is irrelevant? Wow. Going forward, and stuff. Totally man.
    Across two platforms and across over thirty markets and relative to the size of the market? Yes.
    11-13-13 02:30 PM
  10. berklon's Avatar
    and the galaxy note 3 is just a souped up s4,so your point is what?
    And the S4 is a great device whose specs are better than the Z10 and Z30... the Note 3 just takes it a step further.

    My point is, Blackberry released an outdated product that is only slightly better than their previous outdated product - instead of releasing something that can compete with the leaders. Samsung can get away with releasing an incremental improvement (although I think the Note 3 is more than that) because they've already lapped Blackberry a few times.

    You can't give the same allowances to Blackberry as you do Samsung simply because of the HUGE difference in positions both companies are in.
    11-13-13 10:34 PM
  11. twstd.reality's Avatar
    And the S4 is a great device whose specs are better than the Z10 and Z30... the Note 3 just takes it a step further.

    My point is, Blackberry released an outdated product that is only slightly better than their previous outdated product - instead of releasing something that can compete with the leaders. Samsung can get away with releasing an incremental improvement (although I think the Note 3 is more than that) because they've already lapped Blackberry a few times.

    You can't give the same allowances to Blackberry as you do Samsung simply because of the HUGE difference in positions both companies are in.
    that right there is a double standard.
    11-14-13 12:09 AM
  12. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    and the galaxy note 3 is just a souped up s4,so your point is what?
    The difference is that the S3 released at the top end of the devices at its release. The S4 was an incremental upgrade a year later to bring the Galaxy line back to the top, and each future upgrade will be the same.

    However, you're comparing it to devices who's incremental upgrades don't lift the devices to current standards, but instead a couple of steps behind the current market. And pricing those devices as if they belonged in the same class.


    SwiftKeyed/Flowed via Tapatalk 4 Beta
    11-14-13 01:01 AM
  13. berklon's Avatar
    that right there is a double standard.
    It's realism.

    People aren't going to compare the Z30 with the Z10... they compare it to the competition... which it fails to do even on the competitions offerings of last year.

    Who cares that the difference between a Z30 and Z10 is equivalent to the difference between a Note 3 and an S4? This doesn't make people want to buy an inferior product when the competition has something better.
    Poirots Progeny and techvisor like this.
    11-14-13 08:26 AM
  14. anon1727506's Avatar
    Why does the US hate BlackBerry.....

    Oh wait those are World numbers, sorry. Why does the WORLD hate BlackBerry?
    11-14-13 10:31 AM
  15. darkehawke's Avatar
    Why does the US hate BlackBerry.....

    Oh wait those are World numbers, sorry. Why does the WORLD hate BlackBerry?
    It's a conspiracy. Because BlackBerry are worth targeting for a worldwide conspiracy apparently

    Posted via CB10
    11-14-13 11:03 AM
  16. twstd.reality's Avatar
    It's realism.

    People aren't going to compare the Z30 with the Z10... they compare it to the competition... which it fails to do even on the competitions offerings of last year.

    Who cares that the difference between a Z30 and Z10 is equivalent to the difference between a Note 3 and an S4? This doesn't make people want to buy an inferior product when the competition has something better.
    You can't give the same allowances to Blackberry as you do Samsung simply because of the HUGE difference in positions both companies are in.
    .

    No, it's a double standard.

    Main Entry: double standard
    Function: noun
    Date: 1894
    1 : bimetallism 2 : a set of principles that applies differently and usually more rigorously to one group of people or circumstances than to another


    Posted via CB10
    11-14-13 11:06 AM
  17. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    .

    No, it's a double standard.

    Main Entry: double standard
    Function: noun
    Date: 1894
    1 : bimetallism 2 : a set of principles that applies differently and usually more rigorously to one group of people or circumstances than to another

    Posted via CB10
    No, it's just you having a little problem with reading comprehension and the user you are talking to not focusing enough on the obvious.

    The Z30 may be a nice upgrade compared with the Z10, but it is still far away on the hardware front when we look at devices having launched at the beginning of this year.
    When we look at the current phones in the 5+ inch realm, then Z30 is completely uncompetitive hardware wise.

    The Sony Z1, the Samsung Note 3, the LG G2, the Nokia 1520, the 929 or even the Samsung S4 all have FAR better specs than the Z30 has.
    If anything, it's a double standard to say that BlackBerry's competition doesn't offer enough, while the Z30 uses hardware from the middle of 2012.

    Posted via CB10
    11-14-13 11:24 AM
  18. Fatboy40's Avatar
    You know why windows phone had massive growth? They priced their phones right.
    Also they're buttering up the carriers big style. For example in Europe the carrier O2 has signed a big deal with them to use their devices and Office 365 internally (at a massive discount I expect) and nothing else, and they're pushing it very hard to their customers, talking to their business account managers and looking in their stores you wouldn't even know that the brand BlackBerry existed.

    For me this is where BlackBerry have royally screwed up, not that Windows Phone / Nokia is necessarily better it's just that they can do marketing etc where BlackBerry has absolutely no idea whatsoever how to do it. As the saying goes a good salesperson can sell sand to the Arabs...
    anon1727506 likes this.
    11-14-13 11:47 AM
  19. morlock_man's Avatar
    You know why windows phone had massive growth? They priced their phones right.
    They bought the phones from themselves secretly and they're sitting in a warehouse somewhere waiting to be destroyed.
    11-14-13 12:24 PM
  20. anon1727506's Avatar
    They bought the phones from themselves secretly and they're sitting in a warehouse somewhere waiting to be destroyed.
    Sorry but I've seen way to many Windows Phones in the wild.... have not seen another BB10 device (and hardly any BBOS devices) in the last six months.

    Microsoft knows that this isn't about selling phones right now, it's about establishing a platform for the future. They still have a long way to go, but I think that they will carve out a piece of Android's pie - once they gobble up what is left of BlackBerry's crumbs.


    And based on this info.... it appear that Apple isn't as stale as many here hoped.
    Poirots Progeny and JeepBB like this.
    11-14-13 01:27 PM
  21. VR6's Avatar
    Well now John Chen has a starting point!
    11-14-13 01:43 PM
  22. ppeters914's Avatar
    I agree. Blackberry's best bet is to target BBOS users. May be they should begin some sort of an exchange program that only cost the customer $50-$100.
    I was surprised that T-mobile will give me $42 for my Torch 9800. Still haven't decided whether to switch from AT&T waiting for all the 10.2.1 goodness.
    11-14-13 02:19 PM
  23. NinjaB's Avatar
    Competitive to what? not the S4 or HTC One nor the Note 3..maybe it is better than the S3 but just maybe. Att will not carry it because there is zero demand for it.
    ummm, please stop spreading false propaganda.

    BlackBerry Z30 - Full phone specifications

    HTC One - Full phone specifications

    please tell me how the HTC One is a better overall phone.. HTC has a smaller camera, and no SD card slot... these are things that actually affect the end user in a big way - SD card is a must for many, including myself.. the only end-user categories the HTC beats out the Z30, and that is the display ppi, and the device weight, meh... definitely not as important as the camera or having an SD slot... the only other statistical victory for the HTC is the processor, but then again, most users who don't go spec-hunting won't even notice that difference on the user-side... you can only get so fast, I've never experienced lag on my Z10 so I couldn't imagine there being lag on the Z30...

    the Note (and Nokia 1520) are/should be in a totally diff category, being phablets... I would never consider using a "phone" that big, but besides that, we need to compare phones aimed at similar markets (6in v. 5in v. 4in ranges)... so the only legit argument imo is the S4, which is the current industry leader so it's no surprise that it's pretty much better than most phones out there, iPhone 5 and our beloved BB's included...

    even so, the S4 isn't just plain out murdering the Z30... it's a little better in categories of device weight, and siginificantly better on ppi and camera, but that's about it... Everything else is on par or the diff would not be noticable... I'd say that's still competing, no? The Miami Heat are much better than the Sacramento Kings, but if they only lose by 10, did they not compete because they lost? again the processor is mainly a marketing feature for spec-hunters and most in-store buyers don't use that as a reason to buy, if they even notice it at all..

    not saying we shouldn't critique BB when needed, or aim for the best (and to be better), but if you're gonna bash BlackBerry, at least bash them on truth; like how their marketing sucks or how they were late to catch up to the competition so it's hurt their perception immeasurably... but bottom line is, they are pretty much caught up at this point, they just have to show it and make people believe it... oh, and that little part about convincing them they aren't disappearing...
    Last edited by NinjaB; 11-14-13 at 02:55 PM.
    11-14-13 02:29 PM
  24. JasW's Avatar
    Well now John Chen has a starting point!
    Yeah, and he should start with ditching the handset division. You can't turn a company around by continuing to sell what nobody wants to buy.
    Poirots Progeny and JeepBB like this.
    11-14-13 02:33 PM
  25. 12Danny123's Avatar
    technically the HTC One has a better camera than the Z30 cause it has OIS good low light performance. while not Lumia camera good but they're acceptable. Also HTC uses the term Ultrapixel instead of megapixel
    11-14-13 02:34 PM
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