11-24-13 01:48 AM
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  1. cwalt2166's Avatar
    IDC's latest quarterly numbers - an absolute blood bath-screen-shot-2013-11-12-10.09.08-pm.png

    Android Pushes Past 80% Market Share While Windows Phone Shipments Leap 156.0% Year Over Year in the Third Quarter, Blackberry down to 1.7% According to IDC

    Android Pushes Past 80% Market Share While Windows Phone Shipments Leap 156.0% Year Over Year in the Third Quarter, According to IDC - prUS24442013
    11-12-13 09:13 PM
  2. garnok's Avatar
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Android Pushes Past 80% Market Share While Windows Phone Shipments Leap 156.0% Year Over Year in the Third Quarter, Blackberry down to 1.7% According to IDC

    Android Pushes Past 80% Market Share While Windows Phone Shipments Leap 156.0% Year Over Year in the Third Quarter, According to IDC - prUS24442013
    and i guess still BBOS shipment > BB10 shipment
    cwalt2166, bekkay and JeepBB like this.
    11-12-13 09:20 PM
  3. cwalt2166's Avatar
    and i guess still BBOS shipment > BB10 shipment
    I think that's the general trend
    11-12-13 09:22 PM
  4. fedakd's Avatar
    4.5M? OUCH
    cwalt2166 likes this.
    11-12-13 09:26 PM
  5. propeller10's Avatar
    You know why windows phone had massive growth? They priced their phones right.
    11-12-13 09:26 PM
  6. Rolf Hed's Avatar
    Wow, if those numbers are right, they don't look good for BlackBerry.

    Today I was actually re-listening to an old CB podcast--Podcast 88 (June 28, 2012)--in which earnings and sales figures were discussed. 7+ million phones were sold (if I remember right), which is *far more* than recent figures. It might be a tough road ahead trying to turn these numbers around. Chen has his work cut out for him.
    11-12-13 09:28 PM
  7. propeller10's Avatar
    Wow, if those numbers are right, they don't look good for BlackBerry.

    Today I was actually re-listening to an old CB podcast--Podcast 88 (June 28, 2012)--in which earnings and sales figures were discussed. 7+ million phones were sold (if I remember right), which is *far more* than recent figures. It might be a tough road ahead trying to turn these numbers around. Chen has his work cut out for him.
    Z30 is the only piece of hardware that looks competitive and up to date. They need to heavily promote that phone and make it available on ATT.
    11-12-13 09:30 PM
  8. cwalt2166's Avatar
    You know why windows phone had massive growth? They priced their phones right.
    I bought a Lumia 920 unlocked at $350 (currently $0.99 on contract at AT&T) for that exact reason.
    11-12-13 09:30 PM
  9. Rolf Hed's Avatar
    You know why windows phone had massive growth? They priced their phones right.
    I think that could be part of it. It could be a factor in explaining why BBOS phones, which are less expensive than BB10 phones, are outselling the newer BB10 phones.
    11-12-13 09:31 PM
  10. cwalt2166's Avatar
    Premium pricing without the app ecosystem is the Achilles heel for Blackberry...the focus should now be affordable hardware, with premium enterprise software and services
    KemKev likes this.
    11-12-13 09:35 PM
  11. Rolf Hed's Avatar
    Z30 is the only piece of hardware that looks competitive and up to date. They need to heavily promote that phone and make it available on ATT.
    Yeah, you might be right about the Q5, Q10, and Z10 being less attractive compared to other current phones in the eyes of many consumers. Carrier support, which speaks to your point for the Z30 and AT&T, has been a real issue for BB10, perhaps especially in the U.S. but even in Canada with Rogers being slow(-ish) to offer the Z30.
    11-12-13 09:37 PM
  12. propeller10's Avatar
    I think that could be part of it. It could be a factor in explaining why BBOS phones, which are less expensive than BB10 phones, are outselling the newer BB10 phones.
    currently z10 sells at $399 on BB site. If they can do a fire sale for a limited time and sell it for $199, I think they will be able to increase sales significantly. That phone will be seriously outdated pretty soon. I can find the 920 unlocked at $250 and it even has better specs than z10.
    11-12-13 09:37 PM
  13. Rolf Hed's Avatar
    Premium pricing without the app ecosystem is the Achilles heel for Blackberry...the focus should now be affordable hardware, with premium enterprise software and services
    That could be a significant psychological/ideological adjustment for BlackBerry and many of its fans/supporters who tend (I think) to view BlackBerry, its ecosystem, and its products as high-end or premium. However, it's getting hard to argue that with hard numbers of usage, financial losses, weaker-than-expected app development, etc.
    Last edited by Rolf Hed; 11-12-13 at 09:55 PM.
    11-12-13 09:42 PM
  14. berklon's Avatar
    I'm actually more surprised that people are actually surprised by this. When people want to upgrade their phones, it's extremely rare someone will think of buying a Blackberry. The Blackberry name is mud and the products are inferior - there's not way back from this.

    Z30 is the only piece of hardware that looks competitive and up to date. They need to heavily promote that phone and make it available on ATT.
    The Z30 is essentially just a bigger Z10 - it's not competitive or up to date... and still has a horrible ecosystem backing it. The Z30 will make NO difference whatsoever.
    Etios, m1a1mg, boi2012 and 10 others like this.
    11-12-13 09:43 PM
  15. garnok's Avatar
    currently z10 sells at $399 on BB site. If they can do a fire sale for a limited time and sell it for $199, I think they will be able to increase sales significantly. That phone will be seriously outdated pretty soon. I can find the 920 unlocked at $250 and the 920 has better specs than z10.
    even BB playbook after huge cut price still need couple years to empty the inventory, because it still not selling...

    i dont know how many Z10 on inventory today, but BB10 still not selling, they already cut the price but still they losing market share. developed market dont want them, emerging market already migrate to android...with $199 you can get a decent android phone.
    11-12-13 09:44 PM
  16. propeller10's Avatar
    That could be a significant psychological/ideological adjustment for BlackBerry and many of its fans/supporters who tend (I think) to view BlackBerry, it's ecosystem, and it's products as high-end or premium. However, it's getting hard to argue that with hard numbers of usage, financial losses, weaker-than-expected app development, etc.
    Blackberry already has a tarnished image. They were premium and high-end back when they were dominating the market. They can either drown with pride with the violin in hand, or take off the tuxedo and swim the rough waters to survive.
    11-12-13 09:46 PM
  17. Rolf Hed's Avatar
    currently z10 sells at $399 on BB site. If they can do a fire sale for a limited time and sell it for $199, I think they will be able to increase sales significantly. That phone will be seriously outdated pretty soon. I can find the 920 unlocked at $250 and it even has better specs than z10.
    Yeah, they need to unload the Z10s and really get whatever they can for them because the inventory is only going to depreciate more and more as time passes. Maybe use the inventory to try and get BBOS users to upgrade to BB10, because this was a strategy articulated by BlackBerry (at least as far back as 2012, if not earlier) that for various reasons has never been successfully executed. If you can't get current customers to upgrade to new platform, what does that mean for trying to win over new customers from other ecosystems? The adoption rate has been bad.

    Imagine if Microsoft had this adoption rate during the transition from MS DOS to Windows or Win 3.x to Win 95? Or if Apple faced this adoption rate moving from the Apple SOS operating system to Macintosh or the transition from Mac OS 9.x to Mac OS X? It would have been very tough for either of those companies to have survived in those situations I think.
    11-12-13 09:53 PM
  18. MartyMcfly's Avatar
    You know why windows phone had massive growth? They priced their phones right.
    The hardware is quite nice as well.


    Sent from my iPhone 5s using Tapatalk
    bekkay, Saiga and JeepBB like this.
    11-12-13 09:56 PM
  19. propeller10's Avatar
    Yeah, they need to unload the Z10s and really get whatever they can for them because the inventory is only going to depreciate more and more as time passes. Maybe use the inventory to try and get BBOS users to upgrade to BB10, because this was a strategy articulated by BlackBerry (at least as far back as 2012, if not earlier) that for various reasons has never been successfully executed. If you can't get current customers to upgrade to new platform, what does that mean for trying to win over new customers from other ecosystems? The adoption rate has been bad.

    Imagine if Microsoft had this adoption rate of the transition from MS DOS to Windows or Win 3.x to Win 95? Or if Apple faced this adoption rate moving from the Apple SOS operating system to Macintosh or the transition from Mac OS 9.x to Mac OS X? It would have been very tough for either of those companies to have survived in those situations I think.
    I agree. Blackberry's best bet is to target BBOS users. May be they should begin some sort of an exchange program that only cost the customer $50-$100.
    11-12-13 10:01 PM
  20. cwalt2166's Avatar
    Blackberry already has a tarnished image. They were premium and high-end back when they were dominating the market. They can either drown with pride with the violin in hand, or take off the tuxedo and swim the rough waters to survive.
    I can't help visualizing this scenario is playing out somewhere in the frigid waters of the North Atlantic !
    propeller10 and bekkay like this.
    11-12-13 10:04 PM
  21. Rolf Hed's Avatar
    I agree. Blackberry's best bet is to target BBOS users. May be they should begin some sort of an exchange program that only cost the customer $50-$100.
    Yeah, somehow they need to incentivize the upgrade from BBOS to BB10. A discount, rebate, App World credit, accessories, etc.--something along those lines. It's going to hurt device margins and/or short-term profits, but it could be one of the last good chances to turn things around because the continued influx of low-cost Android devices is probably hindering the conversion of BBOS users to BB10. Regardless of whether or not you like Android, it's hard to argue that the OS, its ecosystem, its phones are not improving, and the cost many of these phones are coming down to very attractive levels.
    propeller10 likes this.
    11-12-13 10:10 PM
  22. Rolf Hed's Avatar
    I can't help visualizing this scenario is playing out somewhere in the frigid waters of the North Atlantic !
    lol Yeah, maybe they could shoot a commercial with Kate Winslet or something. :-)
    propeller10 and cwalt2166 like this.
    11-12-13 10:13 PM
  23. richardat's Avatar
    I agree. Blackberry's best bet is to target BBOS users. May be they should begin some sort of an exchange program that only cost the customer $50-$100.
    Before launch I talked about a possible strategy of getting BB10 into their stronghold developing nations FAST....meaning serious promotion and CHEAP! Get a userbase to woo developers with, and then have some momentum to take into the rich markets.

    Now though, I doubt they could pull off that kind of strategy - aside from the fact that (and it's a big aside) everyone now knows the company is hanging on by a fingernail wanted to be sold and that BB10 has completely lost momentum and support of any kind (consumers, carriers, DEVELOPERS), there is the fact that the company is in huge financial jeopardy and needs revenue.....they can't afford to give the phones away cheap - it was their main revenue stream. Even with all the employees gone, there are still the expenses involved with downsizing etc. I believe they are likely in extreme disarray behind the scenes - if they were ineffectual in their efforts before....who knows what they can do now. Again though....it's the money factor which is the problem in regard to your plan. They might have pulled it off with "3 billion and no debt"...etc.....and the fact that it wouldnt' come to this for a few more quarters.....with big sales (even cheap ones) in early 2013, even if hur the balance sheet, it may never have come to this. Developers might have jumped on board, and we'd at least have reason to believe bb10 has a shot with a big user base and active development. But they....sat on their mound of cash, conserved it, and.....now the jig is up - we all see the edge.

    Err....well most of us....I agree berkon....but not a suprise...no matter WHAT happens, no matter how the board reels with bad news...a short time later, some will simply talk as if nothing ever happened....in complete denial.....why yes, it may indeed by a challenging year coming up....oh heavens, I hope we need not worry! Still with all the development coming up - the apps are coming! And the new OS updates, and the z30, we will slowly pull out of it - but it will take time! Maybe years! That's no problem....we have all the time in the world....I think though the tide is turning....people are really excited about the z30 and I have no doubt....
    m1a1mg, techvisor, milo53 and 2 others like this.
    11-12-13 10:20 PM
  24. Rolf Hed's Avatar
    Before launch I talked about a possible strategy of getting BB10 into their stronghold developing nations FAST....meaning serious promotion and CHEAP! Get a userbase to woo developers with, and then have some momentum to take into the rich markets.

    Now though, I doubt they could pull off that kind of strategy - aside from the fact that (and it's a big aside) everyone now knows the company is hanging on by a fingernail wanted to be sold and that BB10 has completely lost momentum and support of any kind (consumers, carriers, DEVELOPERS), there is the fact that the company is in huge financial jeopardy and needs revenue.....they can't afford to give the phones away cheap - it was their main revenue stream. Even with all the employees gone, there are still the expenses involved with downsizing etc. I believe they are likely in extreme disarray behind the scenes - if they were ineffectual in their efforts before....who knows what they can do now. Again though....it's the money factor which is the problem in regard to your plan. They might have pulled it off with "3 billion and no debt"...etc.....and the fact that it wouldnt' come to this for a few more quarters.....with big sales (even cheap ones) in early 2013, even if hur the balance sheet, it may never have come to this. Developers might have jumped on board, and we'd at least have reason to believe bb10 has a shot with a big user base and active development. But they....sat on their mound of cash, conserved it, and.....now the jig is up - we all see the edge.

    Err....well most of us....I agree berkon....but not a suprise...no matter WHAT happens, no matter how the board reels with bad news...a short time later, some will simply talk as if nothing ever happened....in complete denial.....why yes, it may indeed by a challenging year coming up....oh heavens, I hope we need not worry! Still with all the development coming up - the apps are coming! And the new OS updates, and the z30, we will slowly pull out of it - but it will take time! Maybe years! That's no problem....we have all the time in the world....I think though the tide is turning....people are really excited about the z30 and I have no doubt....
    Those are good points. BlackBerry might have missed the "window of opportunity" for BB10. Like cwalt2166 mentioned, they might give it one last go instead of being resigned to financial defeat. I guess a lot of it will depend on how serious the company is about attempting this in the handset market or trying to focus only on software services. Maybe a clearer roadmap will emerge when Chen settles in--or possibly after the next earnings call which is likely going to be another tough one for BlackBerry...
    11-12-13 10:35 PM
  25. Chicago777Guy's Avatar
    The hardware is quite nice as well.


    Sent from my iPhone 5s using Tapatalk
    No they priced their phone right...bottom line...Hardware and design of BB10 is much better but they were priced for failure and that's what they got.

    Posted via CB10
    11-12-13 10:49 PM
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