[menaknow]

No, it's just you having a little problem with reading comprehension and the user you are talking to not focusing enough on the obvious.

The Z30 may be a nice upgrade compared with the Z10, but it is still far away on the hardware front when we look at devices having launched at the beginning of this year.
When we look at the current phones in the 5+ inch realm, then Z30 is completely uncompetitive hardware wise.

The Sony Z1, the Samsung Note 3, the LG G2, the Nokia 1520, the 929 or even the Samsung S4 all have FAR better specs than the Z30 has.
If anything, it's a double standard to say that BlackBerry's competition doesn't offer enough, while the Z30 uses hardware from the middle of 2012.

Posted via CB10

Just wanted to point out.... your arguing with a guy whos name is "twstd.reality"

[canuckvoip]

I'm actually more surprised that people are actually surprised by this. When people want to upgrade their phones, it's extremely rare someone will think of buying a Blackberry. The Blackberry name is mud and the products are inferior - there's not way back from this.



The Z30 is essentially just a bigger Z10 - it's not competitive or up to date... and still has a horrible ecosystem backing it. The Z30 will make NO difference whatsoever.

No.
Z30 has 4 mics, a better CPU/GPU, Miracast, USBOTG, much better battery life, better camera hardware. Maybe the phone won't make a difference but to say all it is is an inflated Z10 is just... ridiculous.

[JasW]

please tell me how the HTC One is a better overall phone.. HTC has a smaller camera, and no SD card slot... these are things that actually affect the end user in a big way - SD card is a must for many, including myself.. i can see only one end-user category the HTC beats out the Z30, and that is the display ppi, meh... the only other statistical victory for the HTC is the processor, but then again, most users who don't go spec-hunting won't even notice that difference on the user-side... you can only get so fast, I've never experienced lag on my Z10 so I couldn't imagine there being lag on the Z30...

the Note is/should be in a totally diff category, being a phablet... I would never consider using a "phone" that big...

As mentioned, the HTC One camera is better technically, notwithstanding your own reliance on megapixel spec hunting, and the lack of an SD card hardly matters when you have a choice of 32 and 64GB onboard storage. (Some who had used SD cards for music might argue it doesn't even matter even if you have only the 8GB onboard of the no-SD Nexus 4 because of the great Google Play Music app -- something you'll never have on the Z30.) Further, it's the weakest of sauce arguments to say that a higher resolution screen doesn't really matter because *you* think "meh." Ditto your feelings about a more powerful CPU just because *you* happen find the one on your phone sufficient.

Also, the Z30 is a new phone; the HTC One is from earlier in the year. The competition is the Note 3 and the Nexus 5. Your argument against the Note 3 is your usual me-me-me argument -- *you* would never consider using a phone that big and is no argument at all. The Z30 is so inferior to the Note 3, the Nexus 4, the S4, and the HTC One, it's not funny.

[milo53]

After being on the market for 9+ months, the TOTAL sales of BB10 phones is 3M or less. To put that in perspective, Apple sold 9M iPhones over a 3-day weekend when the 5s and 5c were launched, and there are that many Android devices activated every TWO DAYS.

Compared to that, BB10 sales ARE so low that they are irrelevant to the rest of the market. Hell, the Nexus 4 by itself, ONE PHONE, outsold BB10 over the same period, and the Nexus 4 has an advertising budget of ZERO (it relies on the tech press and word-of-mouth for sales).

This is why I roll my eyes when someone talks about Google or Apple or Samsung or Microsoft conspiracies to harm BB in some way, especially them "paying for" some plan to kill BB: BB is not even on their radar, and BB has shown that the best way to harm BB is to leave BB alone and let them drive their own company into the ground.

I know that sounds harsh, but the facts are there for anyone to see.

You are 100%. Balsille, Lazeridis and Heins have managed to squander almost 50% world domination. Apple, Android, MS, or the US press could never equal the damage done by this arrogant trio. Now we have a guy that demands a Corporate Jet, to and from California, and 88 million before he works day one. BB BOD should be jailed for their crimes. You can't make this stuff up folks!

[DenverRalphy]

You are 100%. Balsille, Lazeridis and Heins have managed to squander almost 50% world domination. Apple, Android, MS, or the US press could never equal the damage done by this arrogant trio. Now we have a guy that demands a Corporate Jet, to and from California, and 88 million before he works day one. BB BOD should be jailed for their crimes. You can't make this stuff up folks!

Well to be fair, I wouldn't phrase it as "demands". It's just what his services cost. If they want him to work for them, then they've got to pay his going rate. If they want him to work someplace other than where he happens to live, well then they've got to provide him transportation. Just the nature of the biz.

[twstd.reality]

No, it's just you having a little problem with reading comprehension and the user you are talking to not focusing enough on the obvious.

The Z30 may be a nice upgrade compared with the Z10, but it is still far away on the hardware front when we look at devices having launched at the beginning of this year.
When we look at the current phones in the 5+ inch realm, then Z30 is completely uncompetitive hardware wise.

The Sony Z1, the Samsung Note 3, the LG G2, the Nokia 1520, the 929 or even the Samsung S4 all have FAR better specs than the Z30 has.
If anything, it's a double standard to say that BlackBerry's competition doesn't offer enough, while the Z30 uses hardware from the middle of 2012.

Posted via CB10

Nah I can read just fine thanks. But thanks for making it personal, are you sure you want to go there?

Like he said it's OK for Samsung to release incremental crap but not BlackBerry because Samsung's in a better position financially. You are ok with mediocrity?

Posted via CB10

[darkehawke]

Nah I can read just fine thanks. But thanks for making it personal, are you sure you want to go there?

Like he said it's OK for Samsung to release incremental crap but not BlackBerry because Samsung's in a better position financially. You are ok with mediocrity?

Posted via CB10

well clearly you did not read at all.

[NinjaB]

As mentioned, the HTC One camera is better technically, notwithstanding your own reliance on megapixel spec hunting, and the lack of an SD card hardly matters when you have a choice of 32 and 64GB onboard storage. (Some who had used SD cards for music might argue it doesn't even matter even if you have only the 8GB onboard of the no-SD Nexus 4 because of the great Google Play Music app -- something you'll never have on the Z30.) Further, it's the weakest of sauce arguments to say that a higher resolution screen doesn't really matter because *you* think "meh." Ditto your feelings about a more powerful CPU just because *you* happen find the one on your phone sufficient.

Also, the Z30 is a new phone; the HTC One is from earlier in the year. The competition is the Note 3 and the Nexus 5. Your argument against the Note 3 is your usual me-me-me argument -- *you* would never consider using a phone that big and is no argument at all. The Z30 is so inferior to the Note 3, the Nexus 4, the S4, and the HTC One, it's not funny.

I like how you cut out the part of my quote that said my personal preference for not using it was not even my main reason for placing the Note in a diff category! the size is the main reason it's not comparable, and i'm obviously not the only one who feels this way as others in this thread have said things like "the z30 doesn't stack up well to other 5in. phones"... because even though we differ in that opinion, they still recognize the large diff between a 4.2-in device and a 5-inch one, and the Z30 would sh*t on a lot of 4-in phones... just as these 6-in phones have so much more space inside and display area than a 5-in phone, to the point they really aren't direct competitors... the competition is recent 5.in range phones like S4, and Nexus 5, etc... lmao @ the Nexus 4 being better, i won't even justify that with a reply but to say I'd take my Z10 over a Nexus 4 any day, let alone a Z30..

oh, fyi you are doing the exact same thing you say I was doing with my "me-me-me" perspective lol... saying the Nexus 4 is better, because it's not based on specs - is your opinion... saying a SD card isn't necessary with 64gb onboard... maybe that works for YOU, but I have a 64gb card almost full, with 80% music , 20% movies, plus a majority of the onboard 16gb filled.. and i'm sure i'm not the only person in the world who has filled a 64gb card surprisingly easily so i'm not just speaking for me this time, okay? so 64gb isn't always enough.. and with 50gb+ of music across all genres on my phone, hopefully you could understand why the Google Music Play store might not always be sufficient to find everything people might want.. especially those who follow more than just the mainstream artists - in my experience, no store I've ever come across has offered all the music I follow, so I NEED a phone with an SD card, no questions asked.. I don't think i'm alone in that either (a big diff from saying everyone needs an SD card)... again maybe it has all the music YOU want, but not for everyone else... which is fine, of course we all reflect our own opinions, i'm just not sure what perspective you expected me to represent... we all do it, the point i'm making is our opinions are both equally valid...

you guys saying the HTC One's camera is better despite being lower mp(which it may be), is like me saying the diff in processor doesn't matter because BB's efficient use of resources still leaves the BB10 experience smoother than phones with higher processors, which is true imo... but that's why I tried to leave out the more subjective parts like the OS experience itself, which catapaults BB10 above many of the above mentioned phones... I was using specs because that's the main tool/reason that people use to say BB phones are wayyy behind... besides the app gap, i rarely hear any other argument besides specs... yet as we've seen in this discussion, even many hard and fast specs turn out to be subjective... it's just funny to me when people say all these phones are soooo much better just because they sell better or have better specs or the newest gimmicks - a la a majority of the "gesture" features on the S4.... don't get me wrong, some of the newer phones like the Z1, Nexus 5, and the S4 are probly better, but it's not due to those stupid gestures, that's for sure.. but some of these other phones like G2 are only marginally better, and HTC One and Nexus 4 are on par overall at best...

sorry, that got a little longer than expected.

[twstd.reality]

well clearly you did not read at all.

Samsung can get away with releasing an incremental improvement (although I think the Note 3 is more than that) because they've already lapped Blackberry a few times.

You can't give the same allowances to Blackberry as you do Samsung simply because of the HUGE difference in positions both companies are in.

What does that say? Read it to me.

Posted via CB10

[Mr.Willie]

Personally, I like having enough storage on board. Managing SD cards is one less thing I have to deal with. I am not asked anymore where I want to put a file or an application. I will also not buy another phone unless the screen is 1080P, like I have now. I also like the LCD 3 (whatever that means, also I don't really care what it means or I'd look it up) over the crappy Samsung AMOLED pentile displays. I don't care about removable batteries, I've never bought an extra battery for a phone anyway. Besides I have micro USB cables coming out of my ***. If I feel that I may need to plug in for a bit, I do. So to me, that's what a competive phone is hardware wise.

Yeah, somehow they need to incentivize the upgrade from BBOS to BB10. A discount, rebate, App World credit, accessories, etc.--something along those lines. It's going to hurt device margins and/or short-term profits, but it could be one of the last good chances to turn things around because the continued influx of low-cost Android devices is probably hindering the conversion of BBOS users to BB10. Regardless of whether or not you like Android, it's hard to argue that the OS, its ecosystem, its phones are not improving, and the cost many of these phones are coming down to very attractive levels.

How about applications that I used on BBOS 7, weren't avalible and don't run on BB10 ? A BBOS runtime would have been a bonus. We are not even talking about major apps here. The little ones that were used daily, like my brokerage app and banking app for starters.

[darkehawke]

What does that say? Read it to me.

Posted via CB10

I wouldnt want to deny you a chance to show off your fine reading skills, but read a few more posts to see the explanation...

[Djlatino]

You guys have great acting lessons, tell me how to act surprised.

[anon(5828343)]

Z30 is the only piece of hardware that looks competitive and up to date. They need to heavily promote that phone and make it available on ATT.

99% of U.S. consumers don't even know that the Z30 exists (or the Z10 or Q10 for that matter).

[notafanboy]

Attachment 220123

Android Pushes Past 80% Market Share While Windows Phone Shipments Leap 156.0% Year Over Year in the Third Quarter, Blackberry down to 1.7% According to IDC

Android Pushes Past 80% Market Share While Windows Phone Shipments Leap 156.0% Year Over Year in the Third Quarter, According to IDC - prUS24442013

It's to little too late for Microsoft. They have a nothing % of the market and users are wisely dumping their outdated iphones for Android phones.

Posted via CB10

[meltbox360]

Personally, I like having enough storage on board. Managing SD cards is one less thing I have to deal with. I am not asked anymore where I want to put a file or an application. I will also not buy another phone unless the screen is 1080P, like I have now. I also like the LCD 3 (whatever that means, also I don't really care what it means or I'd look it up) over the crappy Samsung AMOLED pentile displays. I don't care about removable batteries, I've never bought an extra battery for a phone anyway. Besides I have micro USB cables coming out of my ***. If I feel that I may need to plug in for a bit, I do. So to me, that's what a competive phone is hardware wise.



How about applications that I used on BBOS 7, weren't avalible and don't run on BB10 ? A BBOS runtime would have been a bonus. We are not even talking about major apps here. The little ones that were used daily, like my brokerage app and banking app for starters.

Plz don't be one of the people who needs a 1080p screen just because 1080p is teh betterz. PPI matters and only up to a certain point. Then its color and brightness NOT resolution. At some point all a higher res screen does is place a higher demand on the GPU shortening battery life and likely uses more power to operate. This is why the android spec race or well the spec race in general is ridiculous. But companies make what people buy and if people like big numbers then people get big numbers.

As for the Z10 and Z30. They are inferior hardware wise. I would be happy if they used bigger batteries, brighter screens, and better speakers. The rest is actually entirely adequate for this generation and a while to come. The user experience matters more. Honestly most people don't know what quad core means. Build quality and IF that doesn't work you can join the dumb spec race. BlackBerry got quality of hardware right on the Playbook. The Z10 could have been better. The Playbook hardware wise was brilliant, but software...

EDIT: However I firmly believe the Nexus 4 is inferior to the Z10 in a lot of ways. The Z10 is all around a more solid device with removable storage and a removable battery which from reviews the Nexus 4 needs. No comment on Nexus 5. Not educated on it.

[alternator77]

its really getting old people comparing the note 3 to the z30 processing aside the screen resolution is a major factor for one big reason and that's the spen and Wacom digitizer ok two things. put together they give you a level of control no off the shelf stylus and phone can match. higher pixel density means greater detail not just for media you stream but stuff people create and while its not important to me and many of us there is clearly a market for it.
personally if a device doesn't bother to include a input device like their stylus I don't consider it a phablet just my opinion...
if it makes calls its a phone if not its a tablet

[garnok]

Plz don't be one of the people who needs a 1080p screen just because 1080p is teh betterz. PPI matters and only up to a certain point. Then its color and brightness NOT resolution. At some point all a higher res screen does is place a higher demand on the GPU shortening battery life and likely uses more power to operate. This is why the android spec race or well the spec race in general is ridiculous. But companies make what people buy and if people like big numbers then people get big numbers.

As for the Z10 and Z30. They are inferior hardware wise. I would be happy if they used bigger batteries, brighter screens, and better speakers. The rest is actually entirely adequate for this generation and a while to come. The user experience matters more. Honestly most people don't know what quad core means. Build quality and IF that doesn't work you can join the dumb spec race. BlackBerry got quality of hardware right on the Playbook. The Z10 could have been better. The Playbook hardware wise was brilliant, but software...

EDIT: However I firmly believe the Nexus 4 is inferior to the Z10 in a lot of ways. The Z10 is all around a more solid device with removable storage and a removable battery which from reviews the Nexus 4 needs. No comment on Nexus 5. Not educated on it.

you can always says it doesnt matter...and BB10 are a good device

but in the end BB sales declining very - very fast, from mini to micro. at least with better specs the critics have one less aspect they can attack, while for buyers they can add one reason they buy BB10

[Terser Nori]

You know why windows phone had massive growth? They priced their phones right.

They also have a product that syncs well with their existing products, and Thier app eco has just enough to be useful.

Posted via CB10

[meltbox360]

you can always says it doesnt matter...and BB10 are a good device

but in the end BB sales declining very - very fast, from mini to micro. at least with better specs the critics have one less aspect they can attack, while for buyers they can add one reason they buy BB10

While this is true. I do not believe it is the reason that BB10 devices are selling. Specs do not sell a device. Marketing sells a device. And pricing. Samsung showed what happens when you shove marketing everywhere all the time. You start to win. Of course you need a competitive device but marketing is a huge part.

[garnok]

While this is true. I do not believe it is the reason that BB10 devices are selling. Specs do not sell a device. Marketing sells a device. And pricing. Samsung showed what happens when you shove marketing everywhere all the time. You start to win. Of course you need a competitive device but marketing is a huge part.

and samsung also using highest specs..to sell to customers.

pricing is important, samsung, LG G2, sony xperia Z1, HTC one etc can sell on high price to customers because their phone have value for money combination of brand, specs, apps, platform, pricing etc and their flagship device selling pretty good better than BB10 phone

BB can spend lot of money on marketing, but if they still doesnt have what the market want expect they still on a bottom.

[twstd.reality]

I wouldnt want to deny you a chance to show off your fine reading skills, but read a few more posts to see the explanation...

I want you to explain. Have at it.

Posted via CB10

[darkehawke]

I want you to explain. Have at it.

Posted via CB10

But other people have and you simply can not be bothered to use your fine reading skills so why should I waste my time.
But I will in the futile hope that you may understand.

In fact I will quote the post that you need to read properly.

The difference is that the S3 released at the top end of the devices at its release. The S4 was an incremental upgrade a year later to bring the Galaxy line back to the top, and each future upgrade will be the same.

However, you're comparing it to devices who's incremental upgrades don't lift the devices to current standards, but instead a couple of steps behind the current market. And pricing those devices as if they belonged in the same class.


SwiftKeyed/Flowed via Tapatalk 4 Beta

Posted via CB10

[12Danny123]

It's to little too late for Microsoft. They have a nothing % of the market and users are wisely dumping their outdated iphones for Android phones.

Posted via CB10

Actually the whole market tells a different story for Windows Phones. Yea you consider 10% of the European market as a whole ,nothing.... Right. Its IOS that is loosing market share not WP or Android. Both Google and Microsoft are increasing



Sent from my GT-I8750 using Tapatalk

[MarsupilamiX]

Nah I can read just fine thanks. But thanks for making it personal, are you sure you want to go there?

Like he said it's OK for Samsung to release incremental crap but not BlackBerry because Samsung's in a better position financially. You are ok with mediocrity?

Posted via CB10

I made it personal? Reading your posts the only conclusion one can make, is that you don't get it.
Reading comprehension is an obvious cause for this, because you apparently still don't understand it:

Samsung, LG, Sony, Nokia all are in another dimension compared to BlackBerry with their specs.
They have the newest CPU, GPU, Camera, Screen and a far better ecosystem paired with an awesome app catalogue.
BlackBerry can't offer that and just as you said, I am not keen on having a mediocre device anymore and by all current standards for specs+ecosystem, BlackBerry is somewhere between subpar and very mediocre.

I don't care about Samsung and your opinion of their upgrades.
They put every high-end component you can possibly use in a phone into their high-end smartphones, whereas BlackBerry still uses hardware from the middle of 2012 in the Z30.

As has been said before, if anything in this whole discussion would deserve the word double-standard, then it is your attitude about BlackBerry's hardware.
Mediocre is still a pretty nice word when we describe it, whereas Samsung, with the Note 3 for exemple, is pretty close to outstanding.
BlackBerry didn't even catch up to phones being realeased in Q1 of 2013, with the Z30. When we look at Q4 of 2013, it just gets even more emberassing for their supposed "flagship".

Therefore like I said: You are okay with BlackBerry using tech from the middle of 2012 but you complain about Samsung when they use the best possible specs you can put into a phone?
Logic has been lost there...

Posted via CB10

[twstd.reality]

I made it personal? Reading your posts the only conclusion one can make, is that you don't get it.
Reading comprehension is an obvious cause for this, because you apparently still don't understand it:

Samsung, LG, Sony, Nokia all are in another dimension compared to BlackBerry with their specs.
They have the newest CPU, GPU, Camera, Screen and a far better ecosystem paired with an awesome app catalogue.
BlackBerry can't offer that and just as you said, I am not keen on having a mediocre device anymore and by all current standards for specs+ecosystem, BlackBerry is somewhere between subpar and very mediocre.

I don't care about Samsung and your opinion of their upgrades.
They put every high-end component you can possibly use in a phone into their high-end smartphones, whereas BlackBerry still uses hardware from the middle of 2012 in the Z30.

As has been said before, if anything in this whole discussion would deserve the word double-standard, then it is your attitude about BlackBerry's hardware.
Mediocre is still a pretty nice word when we describe it, whereas Samsung, with the Note 3 for exemple, is pretty close to outstanding.
BlackBerry didn't even catch up to phones being realeased in Q1 of 2013, with the Z30. When we look at Q4 of 2013, it just gets even more emberassing for their supposed "flagship".

Therefore like I said: You are okay with BlackBerry using tech from the middle of 2012 but you complain about Samsung when they use the best possible specs you can put into a phone?
Logic has been lost there...

Posted via CB10

Blah blah blah. You don't care yet you cared enough to post an effing essay. That's laughable.

Point me in the direction where I commented on blackberry's hardware, or were in support of it. Looks to me like you're just putting words in my mouth to suit your opinion.

Regardless of brand, or specs, they're not innovating if they're putting out incremental upgrades.

Posted via CB10