1. mrfreetruth's Avatar
    poster FFR is a TROLL and yet nothing is done about it? WoW CB has become a joke where you can troll and bash RIM and BB without any worry.
    10-25-12 09:37 AM
  2. Rickroller's Avatar
    poster FFR is a TROLL and yet nothing is done about it? WoW CB has become a joke where you can troll and bash RIM and BB without any worry.
    What's wrong with "bashing" RIM? If they only heard the positives, nothing would ever have changed. Who does more to change the outcome of a football game..the coach telling players to "Pull your head out of your *ss", or the cheerleaders on the sidelines shaking their pom-poms (amongst other things ) telling the team how good they are?

    Btw..if you don't like what he is saying..use ignor.
    10-25-12 09:55 AM
  3. lnichols's Avatar
    To play devil's advocate here, has anyone heard of iPhones being hacked in the real world and damage being caused as a result? The argument about security has been made for a long time. While I agree that RIM goes farther, it seems to me that iPhone is likely "good enough" in this department for all but the most security conscious.
    Not yet, but laptops were out for a long time before the one from the VA was compromised, along with all the SSN's on it. Again I would like to see what ICE is doing, but if "good enough" doesn't meet FIPS and FISMA, then it isn't "good enough" for US Government use. Are they using Good, or something else that doesn't keep the data on the device and has FIPS? Will people like iPhones if they have App restrictions and are locked down? Do all these people in the Government begging for iPhone support think if you get a Government issued iPhone that you are going to be able to load it up with games and music and download any app you want and connect it to your work and home PC's?
    10-25-12 10:01 AM
  4. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    If they only heard the positives, nothing would ever have changed.
    No argument there.
    10-25-12 10:05 AM
  5. Roo Zilla's Avatar
    Not yet, but laptops were out for a long time before the one from the VA was compromised, along with all the SSN's on it.
    Are you talking about this:

    EXCLUSIVE: The real source of Apple device IDs leaked by Anonymous last week - Red Tape

    Because if you are.... there were no SSNs stored on it, only 12 million Apple UDIDs. The data belonged to a small dev in Florida called Blue Toad who did private label apps for a variety of companies who has not stated how it was obtained.
    10-25-12 10:22 AM
  6. FFR's Avatar
    Let's see ... they don't evolve, people give them crap. They do evolve, people give them crap.
    No one said rim couldn't evolve.
    But this isn't an evolution for blackberry this is a completely new product (QNX).
    Completely new that the have had trouble integrating it into the old blackberry enterprise server ( they later renamed it blackberry enterprise service)

    "Under the hood, the part of BES 10 that talks to BB10 devices is a little different in that rather than using proprietary hooks and hacks into Exchange as per BES v5 it uses the quasi-open Exchange ActiveSync (EAS) protocol. I say "quasi-open" because EAS understood, supported, and commonly-used, but subject to a commercial license."

    http://www.trefis.com/stock/rimm/art...rim/2012-09-19

    Bb10 will use eas.
    Again this not an evolution.



    My PlayBook has a pin.
    For now.

    "The most significant change is that the new BlackBerry Messenger on BlackBerry 10 will no longer be PIN based.

    The new BBM will be tied to your BlackBerry ID."

    http://rapidberry.net/blackberry-mes...-be-pin-based/

    Then what is BES 10?
    Not compatible with non bb10 blackberrys.

    "Research in Motion�s (NASDAQ:RIMM) BB10 launch scheduled for the first quarter of 2013 could be marred by what looks like a complicated strategy the company seems to have adopted with the simultaneous launch of BlackBerry Enterprise Service 10 (not Server).

    Several conflicting reports about the BES 10 later, RIM clarified things with a company official shedding more light on the BlackBerry Enterprise Server upgrade roadmap late last month. [1] From the looks of it, new BB10 devices will not be supported by the existing BlackBerry Enterprise Sever (BES) architecture. Instead, RIM plans to provide only one more update, the imminent BES 5.0.4, to the existing servers after which it is goodbye BES and welcome BDS. BDS, or BlackBerry Device Service, will be RIM�s new mobile device management (MDM) server for managing all BB10 devices including the Playbook. To be sure, RIM will still support BES 5 for the foreseeable future but it is clearly counting on organisations upgrading all their existing BB devices to the new BB10 ones."

    http://www.trefis.com/stock/rimm/art...rim/2012-09-19


    Used an unreleased product in detail, have you?



    Point about AT&T is good. Except the world is not "the US", nor are all carriers in the world "AT&T.". In the grand scheme of things across this fast, gigantic world, what % of mobile phone subscribers are US customers on AT&T.
    I have not used bb 10 but I want to.


    Care to provide numbers of other networks in other countries, to support your point. I welcome it.

    I'm based out of London, btw.



    How do you know? Do you sit with RIM's strategic team in various discussions? It's a pretty big leap to say "no one is interested" if you aren't involved in talks and discussions. Perhaps you have access to their calendars and appointments to see what they do all day?
    No, I don't work for rim
    Rims strategic teams, you can't be serious if they held any merit rim wouldn't be in the position it is today.

    I stand by what I said. As of this moment no one is interested. But a lot can change during the holiday period.




    You are correct in that there is indeed churn ... there are people leaving BlackBerry. But there are also people staying on BlackBerry and people new to BlackBerry as well. So far, the latter two are outstripping the former. It has not shifted yet.

    Feel free to prove your allegation is anything other than speculation.
    It's not.
    look at rims profits.
    Feel free to prove yours

    Anything I put in quotations are not my words. You can copy and paste it in google, if you want more info.


    The numbers speak for themselves. From IDC: "The slow growth in the overall mobile phone market is primarily due to the projected 10.0% decline in feature phone shipments this year. Many owners of feature phones, sometimes known as "talk and text" devices, are holding on to their phones in light of uncertain job and economic prospects. Despite the decline in shipments, feature phones will still comprise 61.6% of the total mobile phone market this year.

    The point is (again) that the world is a big place. Most of the world is not on a smartphone yet. The reason why smartphones are growing is because people are upgrading. The trick will be how many RIM can get of that pool, along with how many of the 80 million they can upgrade.
    Why do you think rim will able to?
    Government and enterprises are dropping support for blackberries.
    Look at the thread we are in.


    They why did BlackBerry take off there and ... as you pointed out, Android phone manufacturers are as well?

    Talked to them all, have you?
    Because manufacturers are using android os in feature phones with devastating effects to them.

    "China's ZTE to post first loss as margins bleed"

    http://mobile.reuters.com/article/id...21024?irpc=932

    Nokia is now counting asha phones (which are Symbian 40) As smartphones, Manufactures are moving the goal posts to obfuscate and pad thier numbers.

    "Nokia's Asha Touch now 'officially' a 'smartphone' platform"
    http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/flow/...w_official.php

    I went back added the links on this post
    Cheers.
    10-25-12 11:59 AM
  7. FFR's Avatar
    poster FFR is a TROLL and yet nothing is done about it? WoW CB has become a joke where you can troll and bash RIM and BB without any worry.
    Thank you I guess.
    Your sir are very friendly.

    Ps
    mikeo007 and JeepBB like this.
    10-25-12 12:04 PM
  8. lnichols's Avatar
    Are you talking about this:

    EXCLUSIVE: The real source of Apple device IDs leaked by Anonymous last week - Red Tape

    Because if you are.... there were no SSNs stored on it, only 12 million Apple UDIDs. The data belonged to a small dev in Florida called Blue Toad who did private label apps for a variety of companies who has not stated how it was obtained.
    No I was referring to this:

    Stolen VA Laptop Contains Personal Data - Government - Security -
    10-25-12 01:13 PM
  9. Rickroller's Avatar
    Not yet, but laptops were out for a long time before the one from the VA was compromised, along with all the SSN's on it.
    You make it sound as though the laptop was "hacked" when you use the word "compromised"..which it wasn't. The laptop was stolen, and there was no evidence any of the data on it had been used
    the laptop in that case was eventually recovered, apparently without the data being used for nefarious purposes
    10-25-12 02:35 PM
  10. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    But this isn't an evolution for blackberry this is a completely new product (QNX).
    Some would argue it's because it was necessary. That BBOS had outlived its ability and was being pushed to do things it was never designed to do.

    RIM is not alone in this. Microsoft tossed Windows Mobile for Windows Phone. Palm tossed Palm OS for Web OS. Apple tossed Classic Mac for Mac OS X. And I don't think RIM will be the last.

    Rather than read a press report on how BES 10 will/won't work, how about talking to an IT expert? Part of the challenge I imagine for them is that the whole foundation had to be changed. Gone are the days of 1 pin per user. Now they live in a multi device world (PlayBook + Smartphone) and a BYOD world. With that said, you're assuming that none of what made BES unique isn't being carried on. But this is only my theory - that the 1 pin/user id won't work any more and required a big change.







    The new BBM will be tied to your BlackBerry ID."
    Which would make sense if you want the same BBM to be used on a work phone, a home phone and a PlayBook.

    Not compatible with non bb10 blackberrys.
    RIM says BlackBerry Enterprise Server 10 users will get legacy device support, IT admins (may) rest easy - Engadget

    I have not used bb 10 but I want to.
    I think it's best to hold off making assumptions that it has 'nothing unique' when you haven't tried it.

    Care to provide numbers of other networks in other countries, to support your point. I welcome it.
    My point was that you're making an assumption worldwide based upon the data of one carrier in one country out of 600+ carriers out of many.

    Rims strategic teams, you can't be serious if they held any merit rim wouldn't be in the position it is today.
    The point is still the same. You can't claim "no one has any interest" if you haven't been involved in any discussions or initiatives to gauge interest. Insulting RIM teams doesn't negate the fact that you are making claims about something you have no involvement in whatsoever.

    As of this moment no one is interested.
    Actually, no one has stated their intentions publicly. There's a difference and it's often hidden by an NDA and negotiations underneath. If you believe companies talk in public about their strategic negotiations before deals are signed commonly, I have land to sell you in Florida and a Bridge in Brooklyn too.

    Government and enterprises are dropping support for blackberries.
    Absolutely, some are. But lots aren't. Read through their annual report end-to-end. You'll get lots of good data of where they are strong and where they are weak.
    10-25-12 05:02 PM
  11. abwan11's Avatar
    BB10 is a consumer device. The old model is dead. What is the argument? What they carry over from the past is experience in enterprise and that's it.
    10-25-12 07:03 PM
  12. qbnkelt's Avatar
    I sincerely respect the opinions of others Roo Zilla, and you are no exception!
    That being said, I respectfully suggest that if it is the norm to install "suicide nets" around all of your buildings because of the inordinate pressure put on employees hourly/daily, then the process is sickeningly flawed. A travesty. An embarressment.
    I wonder how many other manufacturing companies have suicide nets? Are there any in NA? I don't know, but I'd be willing to suggest the number is zero.
    I'm not flaming or trying to start something, and again I respect your opinion, as I hope you do. Just food for thought.
    Humane conditions at factories and the defence of workers rights is a very valid point. It should be applied to the fullest extent.
    To the diamond market.
    To textile workers.
    To farmers.
    To Nike manufactures.

    There are a lot of atrocities in manufacturing. If we shed a light on one, so should we shed the light on others. But Apple seems to be the horreur du jour.


    Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk
    abwan11 likes this.
    10-26-12 08:31 AM
  13. lnichols's Avatar
    You make it sound as though the laptop was "hacked" when you use the word "compromised"..which it wasn't. The laptop was stolen, and there was no evidence any of the data on it had been used
    I didn't say hacked. The data was not encrypted so the VA failed to properly protect peoples information. VA was sued for a lot of money and settled out because they were careless with PII. And after that some agencies went nuts on security, as they should have been doing before. As more data is accessible from mobile devices, and maybe even stored on mobile devices, security of those mobile devices becomes a larger concern and a larger liability. I've seen agencies that network security is a joke, and easily hacked into (thankfully by Ethical Hackers testing to see how bad it is). I just hope that ICE is following all the proper security guidelines and precautions, and this isn't just some CIO trying to be innovative for the sake of being innovative and determining that a solution is "secure enough".
    10-26-12 08:43 AM
  14. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    I didn't say hacked. The data was not encrypted so the VA failed to properly protect peoples information. VA was sued for a lot of money and settled out because they were careless with PII. And after that some agencies went nuts on security, as they should have been doing before. As more data is accessible from mobile devices, and maybe even stored on mobile devices, security of those mobile devices becomes a larger concern and a larger liability. I've seen agencies that network security is a joke, and easily hacked into (thankfully by Ethical Hackers testing to see how bad it is). I just hope that ICE is following all the proper security guidelines and precautions, and this isn't just some CIO trying to be innovative for the sake of being innovative and determining that a solution is "secure enough".
    It's what happens when you don't enforce encryption on workers:

    http://www.thestate.com/2012/10/26/2496396/south-carolina-taxpayers-privacy.html
    10-27-12 03:44 AM
  15. jgrobertson's Avatar
    The fact that RIM let this one get away really makes me wonder if they have learned their lesson about knowing their customers and meeting their needs. Are we still seeing this arrogant, out of touch, contemptuous RIM that let their competition roll over them? I hope not. I still have a small position in RIMM stock with some belief, although fading with each delay and each announcement like this, that they will get some traction domestically and/or get a buyer/partner. Either would push the stock up. This additional delay to March on BB10 is terrible. That shows they have severe & crippling deficiencies in their engineering and software development operations. Losing ICE also shows they don't get sales and marketing. A purchase by a company that knows how to do those things would make a big difference. The thing they do have of value is the secure infrastructure. What I read says it is still better than the CISCO VPN that is coming to or on the iPhone now. Others are entering the niche of security for mobile devices and RIM will not hold that monopoly for long. I still think IBM would be their best partner with Lenovo (30% owned by IBM) taking over the handsets.
    10-27-12 07:01 AM
  16. cgk's Avatar
    In the context of this conversation, it's actually a strawman to bring up the fact that RIM is not going to die tomorrow - that's not the critical issue - the critical issue is that the agency couldn't take the chance that BB10 wouldn't be a success and that they would pick a platform that was a lame duck - this isn't a consumer who, if they make the wrong choice, can swop out their phone after 18 months. Microsoft isn't going to die tomorrow but WP8 was eliminated for the same reason.

    Now the counter argument is that Android and Apple might decline - sure but within five years is it likely that they will collapse to such a degree that they will not be able to service the purposes the agency needs.
    10-27-12 07:21 AM
  17. jgrobertson's Avatar
    With 80 million subscribers worldwide, the idea that the Blackberry platform will not be operating for current buyers of RIM products is remote. When talking about 5 years out we are getting into guesswork in any case whether MS, Apple or the Android universe. The judgement is about whether or not RIM or whoever is running the Blackberry infrastructure 5 years out will have innovated enough to remain relevant.

    In mid 1980s anyone who thought Digital Equipment would go under would have been consider nuts. DEC was as big in industrial computing and controls then as Apple or MS are in their markets today. But in 1995, I had to explain to a jury why a contractor could not comply with the specification calling for all DEC and VAX equipment. They were no long in business and their system architecture had been replaced by newer technology. Both Apple and MS are using monopolies as core to their business models as RIM has done. Any of them could fade away or grow to further dominance going forward depending on how they keep up with technology and markets. A factor for all of them is that people can tire of being locked into a vendor's product by reason of monopoly. For myself, I do not even consider anything from MS if there is a practical alternative. MS Phone - out of the question for me.
    10-27-12 10:36 AM
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