04-15-15 10:15 AM
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  1. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Word.
    Who would have thought that I'll find another person who adheres to the teachings of Horus so quickly
    04-02-15 11:12 PM
  2. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Yes, and there are still several million of them at least in inventory at carriers and retailers around the world, which is why there continue to be sales of those devices despite them not being manufactured since as many as 5 years ago (depending on the model - BBOS v5 devices are still being sold new, that have sat in inventory for years!). BB has a long history of stuffing their channels, and they've finally had to change their accounting to reflect that. For the last couple of years, a sizable percentage of their sales have come from phones that they sold (and recognized revenue on) prior to the BB10 launch. That's why sales volumes are higher than the phones they recognized revenue on for the last 5-6 quarters.
    Troy.

    How can Nokia build and sell all touch Asha as well as low end, middle tier and high end all touch windows phones and BlackBerry can not.

    It would have seemed to me that if Foxconn can build a low end Android for Infocus that they should be able to make a low end BlackBerry at a low end price.

    Posted via CB10
    04-03-15 01:52 AM
  3. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    I completely agree with this, but BBOS is taking a long time to die and remains the overwhelming OS of choice for nearly three times as many BB users.

    Conversely, BB10 hit the ground stumbling, and has never really recovered.

    I can see an ironic outcome in that I reckon it entirely feasible that BB10 will die *before* BBOS.
    Seems like a no-win situation.

    I remain of the belief that they had to move to a more advanced OS, whether it was their own (BlackBerry 10) or something else (Android, Windows Phone).

    Had they stayed on BlackBerry OS, I think the market might have decelerated more quickly and the only places buying anything new from BlackBerry would be even more edge case than it is today.
    04-03-15 02:45 AM
  4. JeepBB's Avatar
    Seems like a no-win situation.

    I remain of the belief that they had to move to a more advanced OS, whether it was their own (BlackBerry 10) or something else (Android, Windows Phone).

    Had they stayed on BlackBerry OS, I think the market might have decelerated more quickly and the only places buying anything new from BlackBerry would be even more edge case than it is today.
    Yes, I reckon it is a no-win situation... and I believe Chen sees it that way too. It would certainly explain his reticence in mentioning BB10, and the plan to bring the best bits to other OS's.

    I do actually agree with what you say about BBOS. It had no future and it needed to be replaced with a modern OS capable of exploiting the developments in hardware and in user expectations. However, I've never believed that the answer to the BBOS problem was BB10.

    Gazing into my crystal ball, I see an android future for BB sooner rather than later.
    04-03-15 03:21 AM
  5. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Yes, I reckon it is a no-win situation... and I believe Chen sees it that way too. It would certainly explain his reticence in mentioning BB10, and the plan to bring the best bits to other OS's.

    I do actually agree with what you say about BBOS. It had no future and it needed to be replaced with a modern OS capable of exploiting the developments in hardware and in user expectations. However, I've never believed that the answer to the BBOS problem was BB10.

    Gazing into my crystal ball, I see an android future for BB sooner rather than later.
    I still believe that it might have worked if it would have just happened sooner.

    When BB10 was released, the story has already been written and the outcome was predictable. Meaning that BlackBerry would fight for the 3rd place at best.

    Would they have released sooner, they could have asked the author to change their imminent fall from grace, to something slightly better.

    But I am biased, as I like BB10 and the HUB, especially.
    04-03-15 03:43 AM
  6. birdman_38's Avatar
    It would have seemed to me that if Foxconn can build a low end Android for Infocus that they should be able to make a low end BlackBerry at a low end price.
    Thought that was the whole point of the Foxconn deal as well. They should at least be able to make a low end BlackBerry Android model.
    04-03-15 03:48 AM
  7. JeepBB's Avatar
    I still believe that it might have worked if it would have just happened sooner.

    When BB10 was released, the story has already been written and the outcome was predictable. Meaning that BlackBerry would fight for the 3rd place at best.

    Would they have released sooner, they could have asked the author to change their imminent fall from grace, to something slightly better.
    Yes, possibly, but that would mean to stray into the realms of alternative history.

    If BB10 had come no later than 2011 (in a version at least as feature-complete as BBOS), and if it had included the originally envisaged BBOS runtime to pull-through the bulk of the BBOS guys onto the new platform by giving them a comforting touchstone of familiarity and a reason to change... well, then things might have been different. BB didn't do that, and we are where we are.

    I've never quite got over my astonishment that BB didn't make it easier for their (huge at the time) BBOS userbase to migrate to BB10. BB10.0 was unquestionably a downgrade in functionality over BBOS, and completely different in paradigm. As organisations thoughout the ages can testify, nobody will willing put themselves through a change process unless they can see eventual advantages from embarking on that change. I'm sure that combination of functionality downgrade and the scariness of change deterred many from migrating to BB10. I've always put that BB decision to effectively abandon their existing BBOS userbase in the hope of gaining a new BB10 one as down to simple stupidity and arrogance... but I guess there may be other reasons that only Mike, Jim and Thor will ever know.

    But I am biased, as I like BB10 and the HUB, especially.
    I've never really been a fan of BB10 (you never guessed, did you? LOL), as they lost me at the mess that was 10.0. Beta testing the Playbook OS was enough for me.

    I'm not with Belfast. I don't think that BB could have continued to prosper by sticking with BBOS (sorry BD ), but I've never believed that BB10 would save BB either - too little, too late.

    The Hub is a nice concept, as evidenced by the other platforms coming up with similar versions, but it isn't enough on its own. The rest of BB10 is not really any better or worse than any other OS - phone, calendar, etc - and I'll mention the App problem merely in passing, as its been discussed ad nauseum, despite the huge impact it has had on the adoption of BB10.

    So, yes, I think the time of BB10's passing is close.

    FWIW, I don't believe that Chen's current initiative to bring the best bits of BB10 to Android is intended to benefit Samsung and others. Instead, I reckon the first recipient of the BB10 Experience Suite for Android will be BlackBerry... you'll see it on their new line of Android phones. "Coming Soon" ... LOL
    04-03-15 05:21 AM
  8. birdman_38's Avatar
    I don't believe that Chen's current initiative to bring the best bits of BB10 to Android is intended to benefit Samsung and others. Instead, I reckon the first recipient of the BB10 Experience Suite for Android will be BlackBerry... you'll see it on their new line of Android phones.
    It's no small coincidence that was announced shortly after the Samsung alliance was formed.
    04-03-15 05:30 AM
  9. cgk's Avatar
    That would be a disaster, Android is just another giant pit for BBRY to throw money into - would be quicker just to burn the money

    Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk
    MikeX74 and early2bed like this.
    04-03-15 05:58 AM
  10. lnichols's Avatar
    Thought that was the whole point of the Foxconn deal as well. They should at least be able to make a low end BlackBerry Android model.
    If BB10 survives, then a low cost model should be able to be made in about two more years. I'm mean the LEAP would be lower if not for the RAM requirement and BlackBerry weren't making it. Any other manufacturer that is a $99 to $150 phone. BlackBerry though.....

    Posted via CB10
    Bbnivende likes this.
    04-03-15 06:12 AM
  11. lnichols's Avatar
    That would be a disaster, Android is just another giant pit for BBRY to throw money into - would be quicker just to burn the money

    Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk
    They've already lost. If they are doing something though it keeps the share holders off their back. Better to spin your wheels then do nothing. I think they should stick with BB10, maybe do the Android via QNX hypervisor, but that too will be late I'm sure.

    Posted via CB10
    04-03-15 06:14 AM
  12. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Troy.

    How can Nokia build and sell all touch Asha as well as low end, middle tier and high end all touch windows phones and BlackBerry can not.

    It would have seemed to me that if Foxconn can build a low end Android for Infocus that they should be able to make a low end BlackBerry at a low end price.
    It's because Asha and Android's minimum hardware requirements are WAY lower than BB's. Remember that BB not only has to run BB10, but also the Android runtime on top of it, and that means a dual-core 1.5GHz processor and 1.5GB of RAM is the minimum. Android runs great on a 1.2 GHz CPU and 512 MB of RAM, and Asha on even lower spec hardware.

    Plus, BB requires some custom versions of a couple of chips in their phones that is low-volume, high-cost, which drives up the price. Asha and Android use off-the-shelf high-volume components and see a price savings.

    All of BB's design plans assumed that those custom, expensive parts would make the overall BB phone more desirable and thus allow BB to charge a premium price for the phones, like they used to. Unfortunately, being 5 years late to the party meant that few were interested, and BB now has to compete with iOS and Android and even MS without any brand prestige or a USP that most buyers care about (the vast majority of consumers don't care about the minor security differences between a non-BES BB10 phone and iOS/Android - and those differences ARE minimal anyway), but that security forces BB to make decisions that make them less attractive to consumers in a number of ways, including price.

    No doubt, big government agencies and huge regulated enterprises still care about those things, but due to the competition, and the improvements that have been made in managing iOS and Android, even most of those customers aren't willing to spend much more to get a BB, especially given the app ecosystem trade-off they'd have to make. And as for the rest of the corporate world? They left BB behind years ago, and won't be coming back.

    If BB could get $1500 per phone somehow, then their low volumes wouldn't matter - they'd be like Ferrari, being a niche player who is still profitable with very small volumes. But we all know that BB isn't going to be able to get that kind of money from a phone from nearly enough people/companies when they can get an iPhone for $650.

    This exact predicament is why many people, including myself, were dumbfounded that BB didn't choose to build on Android back in 2010, and instead committed to buying QNX and building BB10 on top of that. It meant they'd take way too long to get their new OS out, and that it would have few apps and little dev support, and that those things would all virtually guarantee BB10's failure in the market. And that's exactly what happened. And now it's way too late to even switch to Android.
    04-03-15 10:13 AM
  13. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Tony, do you think that under the new Google-Blackberry partnership, Enterprise devices BOTH BB10 and Android will get access to Google Play For Work using BES 12? In theory both devices would be under the same IT administration.
    04-03-15 12:15 PM
  14. shaleem's Avatar
    Who would have thought that I'll find another person who adheres to the teachings of Horus so quickly
    Horus who?
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    04-03-15 02:44 PM
  15. Soulstream's Avatar
    Tony, do you think that under the new Google-Blackberry partnership, Enterprise devices BOTH BB10 and Android will get access to Google Play For Work using BES 12? In theory both devices would be under the same IT administration.
    In the artciles I read about the google-BB partnership there is little mention of BB10, just BES that can now manage Android for work on Android Devices. If you can give me any link that would say anything about Google/Android for work on BB10 I would be grateful.
    04-03-15 04:39 PM
  16. Bbnivende's Avatar
    In the artciles I read about the google-BB partnership there is little mention of BB10, just BES that can now manage Android for work on Android Devices. If you can give me any link that would say anything about Google/Android for work on BB10 I would be grateful.

    Probably a non - starter. Pretty hopeless for BB10 devices for Enterprise. Link:

    BlackBerry
    04-03-15 05:29 PM
  17. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    Horus who?
    I think you mean Horton
    shaleem likes this.
    04-03-15 05:38 PM
  18. Centerman66's Avatar
    Don't all companies report in this manner? For example : Do Apple and Samsung immediately subtract R&D costs from their phone, laptop, TV, etc... profits?

    Posted from my awesome White Z30
    All firms using GAAP treat R&D costs this way....and all US publicly traded firms use GAAP.
    04-15-15 10:15 AM
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