[z10Jobe]

A Lumia 530 which is $54 upgradable to the latest OS, SD card support for up to 128GB expandable storage, Office and and an average battery. You can get older Lumia 520's for even cheaper. That's the kinds of phone that grows an OS user base.

I use an average of 10GB of data a month so I need the unlimited data. I mainly use data and don't go anywhere near my text and call limits.

Another great value no doubt even with just 4 gb on board. I can't see how they make any money off of that. Why buy your kid an $800 iPhone, when these will do.

Posted via CB10

[twiggyrj]

Another great value no doubt even with just 4 gb on board. I can't see how they make any money off of that. Why buy your kid an $800 iPhone, when these will do.

Posted via CB10

Yeah kids won't learn to appreciate what they have with expensive gadgets. Apparently MS have said they do make a profit on them, probably through volumes in which they sell them in.

[Thunderbuck]

Is that true? I thought BB10 sales had been decreasing...

I'm very happy to be shown wrong though!

Posted from my awesome White Z30

I'm going to walk it back a bit because I'm having trouble establishing good numbers. The hardware sales definitely declined from Q2 through Q4, but that doesn't actually mean that BB10 sales were responsible for the decline. I believe it was only in Q3 that BB10 sales finally exceeded BBOS device sales.

Even so, Chen has explicitly stated that hardware is "cash flow positive" and I'm good with that for the moment. New models are on the way, new partnerships have been announced.

The patient may not be off the critical list, but the condition has been stabilized.

[Thunderbuck]

They are. They shipped only 870,000 last quarter.

...and I thought that represented an improvement over the previous 3 or 4 quarters.

BB10 had its best quarter at launch back in early 2013, though with only 2.3 million Z10s sold it was definitely not up to expectations, and sales tanked pretty spectacularly afterwards.

I'm just going over the FY2015 reports to get a better idea of sales throughout the year, but I admit it's tough to pull the actual sales for BB10 out, especially when you consider this change in the way BlackBerry recognizes sales.

[lnichols]

...and I thought that represented an improvement over the previous 3 or 4 quarters.

BB10 had its best quarter at launch back in early 2013, though with only 2.3 million Z10s sold it was definitely not up to expectations, and sales tanked pretty spectacularly afterwards.

I'm just going over the FY2015 reports to get a better idea of sales throughout the year, but I admit it's tough to pull the actual sales for BB10 out, especially when you consider this change in the way BlackBerry recognizes sales.

There is no way to come to that it was or is good. Passport was launched in that time frame and I would imagine sales are now dying off or practically dead. Classic will likely be a minimal uptick for a quarter and fall off. Same with the Leap. BlackBerry simply has no mind share, nor products worthy of mind share at the moment. The Passport got them some attention due to the odd design, but not a lot of sales went with the attention. I would say AT&T Passport sales will be weak because most everyone that wanted one bought them unlocked already.

IMHO, BlackBerry must make small batch phones and release at least one per quarter to keep any kind of sales numbers up. That won't be growing the base, but will at least keep some hardware moving every quarter. Also wouldn't hurt to have devices with specs that are upgrades over the launch products two years later.

Posted via CB10

[TgeekB]

Analysing the market was the mistake they made when they came up with BB10, they should've analysed their own customers first.

They traded the bird in hand for the one in the bush and got neither in the end.

The same thing would have happened if they had stayed with BBOS except for a few leftover dinosaurs.

Be classically hip with the BlackBerry Classic

[eyesopen1111]

...
The patient may not be off the critical list, but the condition has been stabilized.

I'm not sure that we can say that the patient is stable when we�ve gone from 2.3 million Z10 shipments at the launch of BB10 to only 870,000 total BB10s shipped last quarter. Chen needs to reverse this trend eventually, but first he needs to stop the decline!

But how will Chen do this? BB10 looks absolutely stagnant as an OS, with few future prospects of attracting new native development, and the best news for BlackBerry's hardware side is that Samsung will be helping with at least some of it.

[Thunderbuck]

I'm not sure that we can say that the patient is stable when we�ve gone from 2.3 million Z10 shipments at the launch of BB10 to only 870,000 total BB10s shipped last quarter. Chen needs to reverse this trend eventually, but first he needs to stop the decline!

But how will Chen do this? BB10 looks absolutely stagnant as an OS, with few future prospects of attracting new native development, and the best news for BlackBerry's hardware side is that Samsung will be helping with at least some of it.

As I say, I think the 870k last quarter represents the highest of the year and that sales are growing. Continuing to dig for better numbers to confirm that.

We will not see substantial new native development until there are AT LEAST 20 million BB10 users. I don't even see much point in discussing that.

BlackBerry is in tough. There is no magic bullet that will suddenly change their situation, but they are executing on their turnaround plan and making progress. And they're profitable.

Posted from CB10 on my classy Passport--TBUCK64

[eyesopen1111]

As I say, I think the 870k last quarter represents the highest of the year and that sales are growing. Continuing to dig for better numbers to confirm that.

We will not see substantial new native development until there are AT LEAST 20 million BB10 users. I don't even see much point in discussing that.

BlackBerry is in tough. There is no magic bullet that will suddenly change their situation, but they are executing on their turnaround plan and making progress. And they're profitable.

Posted from CB10 on my classy Passport--TBUCK64

If selling the 870,000 BB10 devices is the highest number of BB10 sales of the last four quarters, then things are more grim than I thought. I suppose the question is whether that number will rise or fall in the next report. We should get an idea of the Leap's impact.

[Thunderbuck]

If selling the 870,000 BB10 devices is the highest number of BB10 sales of the last four quarters, then things are more grim than I thought. I suppose the question is whether that number will rise or fall in the next report. We should get an idea of the Leap's impact.

What part of "profitable hardware business" are you having trouble with?

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

[Thunderbuck]

Analysing the market was the mistake they made when they came up with BB10, they should've analysed their own customers first.

They traded the bird in hand for the one in the bush and got neither in the end.

Remember that BB10 was rushed to market by at least a year. The first QNX phones (and the Playbook) were supposed to be able to run legacy BBOS apps.

Had they been successful in that effort we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

[Centerman66]

I have a Z30 and I am not even interested in the Passport, Classic or Slider. I agree on the Z30 improvements....A Z50! Of course that would make what? 2 of us? so im not sure how much that would help BB.........

I'm in too.

Posted on CB10 using my Z30 STA 100-5 on OS 10.3.1.2708

[crackberry_geek]

What part of "profitable hardware business" are you having trouble with?

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

The part I'm having trouble with is there is something "funny" in the numbers.

R & D for the Passport had to be pretty significant. So... how in the h377 can that already be paid off to the point where every Passport sold now makes profit.

No way... I don't buy it.

And if it was true... then they're really onto something and ought'a just go ahead with the Z40... cuz they'll be making money off that soon too... right?

I'm tellin' ya... there's some serious funny business in Chen's accounting gimmicks.

Posted via CB10

[Centerman66]

The part I'm having trouble with is there is something "funny" in the numbers.

R & D for the Passport had to be pretty significant. So... how in the h377 can that already be paid off to the point where every Passport sold now makes profit.

No way... I don't buy it.

And if it was true... then they're really onto something and ought'a just go ahead with the Z40... cuz they'll be making money off that soon too... right?

I'm tellin' ya... there's some serious funny business in Chen's accounting gimmicks.

Posted via CB10

Because R&D costs are amortized. Most of that cost is kicked down the road.

Posted on CB10 using my Z30 STA 100-5 on OS 10.3.1.2708

[crackberry_geek]

Because R&D costs are amortized. Most of that cost is kicked down the road.

Posted on CB10 using my Z30 STA 100-5 on OS 10.3.1.2708

Amortizing is an option for tax purposes.

Still doesn't mean they're "making a profit on every device sold" until those costs are recaptured.

Like I said... accounting gimmick.

Put more simply... a lie.

Posted via CB10

[mnc76]

Amortizing is an option for tax purposes.

Still doesn't mean they're "making a profit on every device sold" until those costs are recaptured.

Like I said... accounting gimmick.

Put more simply... a lie.

Posted via CB10

Don't all companies report in this manner? For example : Do Apple and Samsung immediately subtract R&D costs from their phone, laptop, TV, etc... profits?

Posted from my awesome White Z30

[LJT]

By far the best post I have seen. You nailed it!!

We have generated such an instant gratification generation, that the basics of communication is breaking down. If they are not stimulated fast enough, often enough, a fit (to extremes at times) happen and not behind closed doors anymore either. (children and adults alike) The entitlement factor is HUGE!!

Our ADD and ADHD society has become reckless in their NEED to be entertained. Other platforms have done well in "entertaining " the masses and have made billions in doing so I might add. (Which is good for only bringing in the money but not being productive in life.) Unfortunately if one is to be productive in BUSINESS now a days, one only needs to create more of a environment of entertainment than healthy communication and work/life ethics. Bottom line to that is making lots of $$$$ by trying to corner the market into having to buy only their products. (not mentioning any names)

In my line of work, it is imperative to be able to communicate with all types of people and at multiple levels, and yes it takes work, patience, understanding and most of all communication. If I were translate that into cellular technology terms, we communicate wirelessly to each other regardless the others parties platform. (gender/race or belief system) I believe that is called cross platform....which I also believe is what BlackBerry is doing as we speak. This is something the other platforms are missing.

Yes keeping up to date and being cutting edge is imperative in today's Techno world. Having security (which I understand all so well in my line of work) for our safety should be at the top of the list for our future well being is a"yes". Having a little fun along the way is ok also but it should not be the main focus (our society has and still is trying that and it's not working so well and we need to wake up)

Not sure how but "Communication" Cross Platform (and not just IM, text or social feeds) between devices, but Communication between People face to face should be emphasized with not only great work productivity tools but encouragement of general life skills also ie. interaction between family and friends ect. I would like to see something along that line in promoting BlackBerry.



Using a Z30 from Telus

[crackberry_geek]

Don't all companies report in this manner? For example : Do Apple and Samsung immediately subtract R&D costs from their phones, laptops, TVS, etc...?

Posted from my awesome White Z30

They don't all stand in front of us and claim "I'm making profit off of every device sold".

If they never sell enough Passports to recoup the original R and D, in the end does that mean Passports earned them money? Of course not!

I say again... accounting gimmicks.

Apple might do it and never get called on if because they truly do, eventually, sell enough devices to recoup those expenses.

For Chen to stand up and claim he's making profit on every hand set, after clearly dismal sales figures, which point to NEVER re-couping the R and D... is pure foolishness.

Posted via CB10

[belfastdispatcher]

The same thing would have happened if they had stayed with BBOS except for a few leftover dinosaurs.

Be classically hip with the BlackBerry Classic

Absolutely not true, it's why 3/4 of BB users are still on BBOS like it or not, this is after over 2 years of BB10 and after 4 years since the BB7 was launched.

Wake up and smell the coffee. There is absolutely no hope for BB10.

[belfastdispatcher]

They don't all stand in front of us and claim "I'm making profit off of every device sold".

If they never sell enough Passports to recoup the original R and D, in the end does that mean Passports earned them money? Of course not!

I say again... accounting gimmicks.

Apple might do it and never get called on if because they truly do, eventually, sell enough devices to recoup those expenses.

For Chen to stand up and claim he's making profit on every hand set, after clearly dismal sales figures, which point to NEVER re-couping the R and D... is pure foolishness.

Posted via CB10

From that perspective BB10 never made a penny, but a massive loss to the company.

They'll never ever recoup what they invested in BB10 starting with buying QNX.

[twiggyrj]

Absolutely not true, it's why 3/4 of BB users are still on BBOS like it or not, this is after over 2 years of BB10 and after 4 years since the BB7 was launched.



Wake up and smell the coffee. There is absolutely no hope for BB10.

If BB10 has no hope I would say BB7 doesn't either: the user base is shrinking, the OS is very limited in expansion and if they went back to BB7 it would damage the companies reputation even further by showing even they have no faith in their new OS.

[TgeekB]

Absolutely not true, it's why 3/4 of BB users are still on BBOS like it or not, this is after over 2 years of BB10 and after 4 years since the BB7 was launched.

Wake up and smell the coffee. There is absolutely no hope for BB10.

False. BBOS would not have survived. No matter what your dreams are.

Be classically hip with the BlackBerry Classic

[belfastdispatcher]

False. BBOS would not have survived. No matter what your dreams are.

Be classically hip with the BlackBerry Classic

BBOS has survived so far regardless.

BB10 is a flop, complete flop.

BB will eventually run out of accounting tricks.

[belfastdispatcher]

If BB10 has no hope I would say BB7 doesn't either: the user base is shrinking, the OS is very limited in expansion and if they went back to BB7 it would damage the companies reputation even further by showing even they have no faith in their new OS.

Of course it doesn't. But I'm going back to BB7 anyway.

[twiggyrj]

BBOS has survived so far regardless.





BB10 is a flop, complete flop.





BB will eventually run out of accounting tricks.

BBOS is an old code base which has been stretched way too far from its origins design of a pager OS. A new OS was needed but BB10 needed the input from the BBOS developers to become that successor but it didn't. Though it will get there at some point.

Well that's you, for your point that BB7 is better than BB10 you need the majority to agree with you but the numbers show they don't.