12-24-08 08:12 AM
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  1. Spinny's Avatar
    Okay, just so I'm clear on this...

    The Internet protocols get your mail to the last stop before you actually see it: your host's mail server. From there there are two ways to get it to your device (PC or BB or whatever) so you can actually read it: push and pull.

    If your device is a BB and the mail server is on blackberry.net, the server will push the e-mail instantly to your BB. If your mail server is something else, so far as I know the mail has to be pulled from the server to your BB (ditto if you're using a PC with something like POP). The time it takes to pull the mail down has nothing to do with the host server, it is totally dependent on how often your device asks for it. On most e-mail clients (I also use Thunderbird) you can set the interval; you can, for example, have it ask for mail every 5 minutes. That means there will be up to a 5 minute delay before you get your mail. Again, that has nothing to do with the provider, you set the time.

    When the BB is pulling e-mail, as explained to me by a BB tech rep, the delay is fixed: 15 minutes. You cannot change it, it is hard-coded into the OS.

    Therefore, unless your mail server is able to do push like the BB ones do, the only way I see for you to be getting your e-mail is via the pull method, and that can take anywhere from a few seconds to 15 minutes depending on when in the 15-minute cycle the mail actually arrived at your server.

    If web-based e-mail servers like those hosted at Hotmail and Gmail are always providing "instant" e-mail, and it's not just because you have them forwarded to your blackberry.net account, then they must be using some sort of push protocol similar to the blackberry.net one. I would love someone who actually knows the protocols and networking details to chime in with whether that is the case.
    12-23-08 07:33 AM
  2. Spinny's Avatar
    Here is an interesting quote from the BIS 101 help page:

    "RIM has agreements with Yahoo, GMail and Godaddy for easy integration but sometimes people donít use any of those if this is the case it MAY not set up for you, in which case farther steps are needed."

    I suspect these "agreements" include some technical hand-shaking that causes the account in question to push the e-mail right away instead of waiting to be asked for a pull. I checked with a co-worker who's also a networking guru and he gets fast pushes from his gmail.com account right out of the box.

    Currently all my e-mail accounts funnel into roadrunner.com, and that is the single account I have set up with BIS. This might motivate me to change so everything funnels to gmail.com and then I'd make that my BIS gateway into the BB to get the sped-up e-mail response. If I do this I'll post some results.
    12-23-08 08:01 AM
  3. SevereDeceit's Avatar
    which email are you using because mine come to my bb before it even hits my yahoo account on my pc
    Heh, same here, nobody does e-mail like BlackBerry...
    12-23-08 08:07 AM
  4. gopowercat's Avatar
    When it comes to Yahoo, Gmail, hotmail, and all those other email domains, yes they are kings... But when it comes to Microsoft Outlook there is a 15 min delay. I have talked to honest to god probably 6 BB tech supports..
    I use Outlook and it doesn't have a 15 minute delay for me.

    It is as instant as any of the others.

    I have 4 email accounts on my Curve including the one from the Outlook at work. There is no 15 minute delay for me.
    12-23-08 08:13 AM
  5. Spinny's Avatar
    I use Outlook and it doesn't have a 15 minute delay for me.

    It is as instant as any of the others.

    I have 4 email accounts on my Curve including the one from the Outlook at work. There is no 15 minute delay for me.
    Outlook isn't a mail server, it's an e-mail client like Thunderbird or the BB mail app. Is your work account on an Exchange server? What host companies do you have these e-mail accounts with? Are you on BES or BIS (or both)?
    12-23-08 08:16 AM
  6. jbeachy's Avatar
    I've been reading this thread with interest. I'm on BES, so of course corporate mail is always instantaneous. But I also have 3 BIS accounts, none of them the ones most oiften cited here such as GMail or Yahoo. One of the accounts is hosted by Hostmonster and is an aliased account. The other two are cox.net accounts. None are being forwarded to a blackberry.net account.

    Every one of these accounts are instantaneous to my BlackBerry. I've tested this many times.

    I'm not contending that BIS uses push technology even though for all practical purposes all my accounts appear as "push" on my BlackBerry. I have trouble believing the "15 minute pull" assertion earlier in the thread. Does anyone have the definitive word on how BIS polls the mailbox server from which it gets my BIS mail?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-23-08 08:23 AM
  7. Shao128's Avatar
    I am not sure who my email provider or wether it is a POP3 or IMAP.. Which one does it need to me in order to make my email delivery instant.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    You'll need IMAP. The 15 minute problem is not the fault of Blackberry/BIS but the POP3 protocol. Ill break it down like this:

    Email Client to POP3: Hey you got any messages for me? No. Ok, I'll check back in 15 minutes.

    IMAP to Email Client: BAM! You got mail, take it now foo!

    Ok so I'm over simplifying here but basically a POP3 mailbox must be polled at regular intervals to check for mail, IMAP uses a feature called IMAP Idle which pushes new mail to the users mailbox. So this is not a fault of your Blackberry or BIS, it effects any device/client trying to connect to it.
    12-23-08 08:26 AM
  8. Spinny's Avatar
    Okay, I just set up my Gmail account with BIS. Wow. Instant mail push, just like with my blackberry.net account. Some e-mail providers definitely do have things set up with RIM to do e-mail push. How cool! I'm switching everything off my roadrunner.com server today.
    12-23-08 08:27 AM
  9. OptiPrime's Avatar
    Why not just forward your Outlook inbox to your gmail or hotmail to get instantly?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-23-08 10:24 AM
  10. Spinny's Avatar
    Why not just forward your Outlook inbox to your gmail or hotmail to get instantly?
    Yeah, that's exactly what I'm doing right now (minus the Outlook part, since I don't use that app). Thus far it's working beautifully.
    12-23-08 10:29 AM
  11. roeod4's Avatar
    Outlook (the program) should have nothing to do with how your email is sent your BlackBerry. Outlook is a conduit for viewing your email, just like the BlackBerry is. The main difference is that the BlackBerry has push technology that allows your email to be delivered in an instantaneous fashion and outlook uses a pull type technology that forces it to go out and collect your mail from the server(s). You can use outlook to view a gmail, hotmail, aol, yahoo, etc account just like it can view any other account. If your mail is being delayed and/or delivered only every 15 minutes then it is an issue with how your email is being hosted.

    Outlook Web Access (OWA) is a different story. If you are using OWA then you may want to look at this to set it up. View Document
    12-23-08 10:46 AM
  12. midwest_kc's Avatar
    I uesed this doc for my OWA account, but it still seems like I get my mail on about a 15 minute interval. Could be that it's a pop account, not sure.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-23-08 11:26 AM
  13. BBtoiPhone's Avatar
    I appreciate everyones input on this. however i am still a little confused on a few things...

    How do i know what kind of email my server is running? how do i know if it is a POP, IMAP, or OWA? I really dont know the differences. All i know is that when i got my blackberry i went into the email set up on the blackberry, and typed in my email and my email password and i started getting emails 15 minutes after they are recieved on my outlook on my pc... My email is domain name. my email addres is myname@mycompany.com. i dont know if this has any concern on why i am having this email problem.

    would someone please do a step by step for me on how to tell what kind of email i am running?

    How do i change what kind of email i am running?

    How do i make it so my email is instant without forwarding me emails to a blackberry.net email?
    12-23-08 12:30 PM
  14. elconejito's Avatar
    I appreciate everyones input on this. however i am still a little confused on a few things...

    How do i know what kind of email my server is running? how do i know if it is a POP, IMAP, or OWA? I really dont know the differences. All i know is that when i got my blackberry i went into the email set up on the blackberry, and typed in my email and my email password and i started getting emails 15 minutes after they are recieved on my outlook on my pc... My email is domain name. my email addres is myname@mycompany.com. i dont know if this has any concern on why i am having this email problem.

    would someone please do a step by step for me on how to tell what kind of email i am running?

    How do i change what kind of email i am running?

    How do i make it so my email is instant without forwarding me emails to a blackberry.net email?
    when you first setup your email on the BB, it checks to see how it can connect to your email server. It first tries IMAP, and if it can't connect, it tries several other ways until it can connect.

    I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that your email provider doesn't support IMAP*** and BIS is connecting anyway it can, which in this case would be POP... which means it will check every 15mins.

    You can try and change the settings, by logging into the BIS for your provider and (someone else will have to provide full details here) go into advanced settings to see if it's possible to change the connection from POP to IMAP or OWA. Otherwise you're going to have to change service providers, or maybe see if you can forward them to a GMail or similar like Spinny has.

    ***Some providers disallow BIS, because they feel that BIS uses too much resources. Basically IMAP is a constantly open connection. If you have 100 email users, that means 100 email connections. Whereas with POP, each user connects to their email once every 15 (or whatever) mins for just a sec to check if new mail. Doesn't happen often, but it does happen.
    12-23-08 12:51 PM
  15. jkfsr's Avatar
    I use hotmail and there is always a delay. I just timed it and it was a four minute delay. 8330 on Verizon. If there is a way to fix that I would love to know.
    12-23-08 01:04 PM
  16. BBtoiPhone's Avatar
    when you first setup your email on the BB, it checks to see how it can connect to your email server. It first tries IMAP, and if it can't connect, it tries several other ways until it can connect.

    I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that your email provider doesn't support IMAP*** and BIS is connecting anyway it can, which in this case would be POP... which means it will check every 15mins.

    You can try and change the settings, by logging into the BIS for your provider and (someone else will have to provide full details here) go into advanced settings to see if it's possible to change the connection from POP to IMAP or OWA. Otherwise you're going to have to change service providers, or maybe see if you can forward them to a GMail or similar like Spinny has.

    ***Some providers disallow BIS, because they feel that BIS uses too much resources. Basically IMAP is a constantly open connection. If you have 100 email users, that means 100 email connections. Whereas with POP, each user connects to their email once every 15 (or whatever) mins for just a sec to check if new mail. Doesn't happen often, but it does happen.
    I appreciate the help. I talked to someone else who works for the company and he says that he gets his email instantly. (I asked him if he had his emails forwarded to another email address. He said no, all he did was go to the email set up on his phone and it connected just fine) Could it be something to do with my settings in Outlook?

    Sorry to keep beating this subject, i just know at one point i was getting my emails instantly, and am just trying to figure out what i did, or what my computer did to make it so i have this 15 min delay... I use to have conversations via email with people, but am unable to do this now with the delay... Hopefully its a simple option change in my preferences in my outlook..

    Thanks again for all the input.
    12-23-08 01:32 PM
  17. Blacklatino's Avatar
    I get my email instantly. Not sure what youre doing.
    I agree and from 3 separate accounts.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-23-08 01:38 PM
  18. Spinny's Avatar
    I agree and from 3 separate accounts.
    I know it's probably a hassle, but if you guys with multiple "insta-mail" accounts posted what hosts you have for each account and how you set them up it might help others--if nothing else, people who end up ditching their default mail host can have a list of good ones to pick from.

    I'll start: my default account is POP3 only, I'm stuck with the polling delay built into the BB.

    For a good one I endorse gmail. I now get my mail instantly, can delete the mail from the server via my BB mail app, and I configured it so when I send mail from my BB or directly from Gmail on my PC's web browser it still looks like I sent it from my original default account. I set that account to auto-forward to gmail and (this is important to me) NOT to keep copies, else I'd be constantly logging in to delete backed-up mail.

    My PC mail client, Thunderbird, is now set up to POP down mail from gmail so I have local copies on my PC as well as the "originals" on the gmail server. I set Thunderbird not to delete the gmail items as it downloads them; personal preference.

    Gmail has very good help on how to "spoof" your old address from their service, just read the help section carefully. If you're still stumped post a question and I'll try to talk through how I did it.

    Note of caution: I also have my own domain and a mail server on it, with auto-forwards. Because of complaints from the affected companies they do not allow auto-forwarding to Yahoo, AOL or MSN mail. Your provider might have similar restrictions so check before you commit to having your old account forwarded to one that supports push to BBs.

    HTH!
    12-23-08 01:58 PM
  19. BBProductivity's Avatar
    If you want to have emails immediately on your BlackBerry then don't connect to an account directly but forward the eMails to a dedicated BIS address. This works for me and i receive eMails immediately.
    12-23-08 02:59 PM
  20. SevereDeceit's Avatar
    Okay, I just set up my Gmail account with BIS. Wow. Instant mail push, just like with my blackberry.net account. Some e-mail providers definitely do have things set up with RIM to do e-mail push. How cool! I'm switching everything off my roadrunner.com server today.
    Glad you set up the Gmail account Spinny, i was saying to you the other day it works great on BB...
    12-23-08 03:01 PM
  21. Spinny's Avatar
    Glad you set up the Gmail account Spinny, i was saying to you the other day it works great on BB...
    Yeah, I don't know why I was so resistant at first. Guess because I had so much time invested in my legacy flow of e-mail address forwarders. It took me a while today to go through them all and get the flow cleaned up and all ending up at gmail but I think the effort will be worth it.
    12-23-08 03:04 PM
  22. SevereDeceit's Avatar
    You are correct, it will my friend. I also noticed that Gmail's response time when sending an e-mail to someone on BES, is alot faster than Yahoo. I have both and will use Gmail when sending an e-mail to someone who is on BES...
    12-23-08 03:48 PM
  23. Spinny's Avatar
    Another bonus just occurred to me: my old method of forwarding my legacy host address to my blackberry.net address by-passed the spam filters, so a lot of crud was leaking through. Now gmail weed-whacks for me BEFORE forwarding to my BB and I've not seen a spam mail all day.
    12-23-08 04:01 PM
  24. SevereDeceit's Avatar
    That is exactly my point Spinny, this is why i recommend Gmail for BlackBerries so much, the only thing bad i ever hear about Gmail is getting the sent message after you alredy sent an e-mail. The link i posted above shows to stop it...
    12-23-08 04:06 PM
  25. Spinny's Avatar
    Heh. I am stubborn, but eventually you can kick enough sense into my thick skull so some leaks through.
    12-23-08 04:21 PM
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