10-03-16 12:12 AM
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  1. Cobra-Commander's Avatar
    In light of recent news, I no longer use BBM, uninstalled.

    CEO's position seems shallow and opportunistic at best. Most likely Blackberry wants to cooperate with governments because

    A) Avoid legal battles
    B) Wants to keep government(s) as their best clients
    C) Blackberry BBM security was poor to begin with, it was matter of time that it would get cracked or was already by many governments.

    Chen's letter was even more hilarious even though their entire marketing scheme is to convince us that their products are the most private and secure. He pretty much saying that it's ok for police and many other government bodies to snoop on your BBM communication because unscramble key for non-Enterprise clients is under Blackberry control. Then he claims enterprise is secure because each BES server key is at the company's discretion.

    So what Chen means is that, we are willing to sell out your privacy if possible and that corporate villains have the right for their privacy but not individuals.

    I was a big blackberry supporter, but I think Priv will be my last blackberry phone and most likely sell my shares. I have no intention to stay with a company that says one thing but does another. Blackberry lost all trust with this fiasco. What's even more disturbing is that Blackberry has no intention to make BBM any more secure so that government's won't have any trouble with their spying.

    And as for Priv other than securing root, pretty much there is 0 added security compared to any other Android phone. All the security features in Marshmallow is already built in the OS kernel, has nothing to do with Blackberry. So we just paid around 1k for a phone that is as much secure as any other with slower updates.

    So far companies like Apple and some third party apps are doing more for security than Blackberry. Facebook the least privacy caring company now has Whatsapp with end to end encryption and there is now talk that the big tech companies will unify their platforms to have end to end encryption for each web email service.

    For people looking for best free encrypted communication.

    Download Signal for chat (What Snowden uses)
    Download ProtonMail for email
    Last edited by Cobra-Commander; 04-20-16 at 11:48 PM.
    04-20-16 03:50 PM
  2. brookie229's Avatar
    uninstalled.
    I don't think so--cannot be uninstalled.

    edit: my bad--it seems that the OP has a Priv and I missed that. BBM can be uninstalled from the Priv, I think!
    Last edited by brookie229; 04-21-16 at 11:19 AM.
    gugomat and zephyr613 like this.
    04-20-16 03:52 PM
  3. app_Developer's Avatar
    I think his position is muddled and defensive. He says himself that it would be difficult for BB to decrypt BES traffic or BBM protected traffic, even if a court ordered it. OK, if you know that, and you know that is an important feature of an encryption scheme, then trumpet that fact.

    I do think Chen put BB on the wrong side of this issue, not just from the right thing to do perspective, but he also distanced BB from one of BB's most important strengths. Marketing failure IMO.
    04-20-16 03:55 PM
  4. DaveyBoy71's Avatar
    I'm waiting on all the guys from CrackBerry that talk about how secure and private BlackBerry is to chime in. Seems like BlackBerry is full of it.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by Fret Madden; 04-21-16 at 09:17 PM. Reason: Language
    04-20-16 03:57 PM
  5. web99's Avatar
    OP, I doubt you are going to be able to find a single company that does not cooperate and provides assistance to law enforcement under certain circumstances. During the Apple vs FBI saga, it was revealed that Apple had unlocked iPhones for the Feds at least 70 times in the past. I am sure if you dig somemore, you will find that Microsoft, Google, Facebook and others have cooperated as well.

    Apple Unlocked iPhones for the Feds 70 Times Before - The Daily Beast

    Since you feel so strongly about BlackBerry, then what about your carrier that provides you with cellphone service? Verizon, AT &T, TMobile and others are already cooperating with the Feds. Are you going to cancel your cellphone, internet and social media services as well?
    bluetroll, byex, zephyr613 and 4 others like this.
    04-20-16 07:01 PM
  6. BanffMoose's Avatar
    Chen's letter was even more hilarious even though their entire marketing scheme is to convince us that their products are the most private and secure. He pretty much saying that it's ok for police and many other government bodies to snoop on your BBM communication because unscramble key for non-Enterprise clients is under Blackberry control. Then he claims enterprise is secure because each BES server key is at the company's discretion.

    So what Chen means is that, we are willing to sell out your privacy if possible and that corporate villains have the right for their privacy but not individuals.

    I was a big blackberry supporter, but I think Priv will be my last blackberry phone and most likely sell my shares. I have no intention to stay with a company that says one thing but does another. Blackberry lost all trust with this fiasco. What's even more disturbing is that Blackberry has no intention to make BBM any more secure so that government's won't have any trouble with their spying.

    Seems like a knee-jerk, emotional reaction to me. But ok, to each their own.

    When you calm down, why not take a moment to think about BBM encryption. Even if encrypted with 1 global key, it is still encrypted. In the past when the boogie-man was just criminals, it kept those criminals from being able to sniff your BBMs while you logged into the hacked public wi-fi system the criminals installed at your local coffee shop. All the while, those criminals read all the What's App messages, email messages, etc. that were all being sent in plain text. You seem to be giving undue credit to companies that are only recently, beginning to encrypt data streams. BBM, with its 1 global encryption key, has been encrypted all along.

    Ponder the fact that BlackBerry was actually complying with laws of probably every country in the world, which requires the ability of governments/governmental agencies to have LAWFUL ACCESS to transmissions made in their country. You may not like the use of 1 key, but it does make it easier for BlackBerry to maintain the security/privacy of the user while also complying with local law. Think too, that transmissions may change geographic borders and legal jurisdictions causing several countries to have claim to legal interest in the transmissions. And let's be honest here, every country should have the right to have legal access to anything that goes in/out of their country. It's part of their souverignty and it doesn't matter if we like their government/country or not.

    Think about the fact that through BES, BlackBerry may not have the keys, but the company/entity owning and running that BES has the keys. Therefore, even though it is truly end-to-end encrypted, BlackBerry engineered a way of providing end-to-end encryption while still providing compliance with local laws regarding LAWFUL ACCESS. BlackBerry may not be able to provide access to BES protected data streams, but the entity running the BES server is subject to lawful due process, so the data can still be had.

    BlackBerry engineered a means that benefited end users, BES customers and governments alike. Everything about this should be admired and supported.


    Now let's look at today's post-Snowden-era, where now, the boogie man includes governments. We know of multiple governments, including those that purport to be the beacons of freedom and democracy, are all about unlawful mass surveillance of not only foreign nationals, but of their own citizens. The tech companies that you and many like you turn to and say "THEY ARE RIGHTOUS! THEY PROVIDE TRUE END-TO-END ENCRYPTION!", those same tech companies were caught being complicit with NSA mass-surveillance efforts!

    They are just now turning to "true end-to-end" encryption, when BlackBerry's had it from the start. In the past, those companies were selling us on "trust us, your data is secure" only for news to come out they were sending user authentication or data through the internet in plain text. Many of these tech companies store massive amounts of data on YOU, because YOU put it there. Now YOU think they are more secure or they support privacy more than BlackBerry? Really?


    Keep in mind, BlackBerry is the only one of these tech companies that goes to each government and their security rating agency to have them look at their code and certify it as secure. Governments may be friendly to each other, but that doesn't mean they trust each other. The fact is that various governments, who have reason to be suspicious of other governments, have all certified BlackBerry. This should mean something.

    Tell me. What other commercial-grade provider has the security chops that BlackBerry has? Who has certified the security Apple, Google, Facebook/What's App, Microsoft, etc deploy? Until they start providing certifications by agencies that actually answer to other entities (as opposed to a certifier that will give a rubber stamp to anyone that pays them), why should you trust them?


    You are quick to condemn the one company that actually is forthcoming with what it offers, and from everything I've seen seems to be the one most willing to COMPLY WITH LAWS. I'd like to believe Apple, Google and Facebook/What's App are doing an act of civil disobedience by offering "true end-to-end" encryption with no keys, but I can't get over their past failures. Seems like it's all just PR stunts to ride the anti-government mass surveillance fad. Also seems a massive failure or complete lack of effort on their part to try and provide a means of lawful access. BlackBerry can do it. Why can't they?

    You willingly believe the self-serving marketing PR that BlackBerry's competitors are put out. Why?
    04-20-16 08:08 PM
  7. kvndoom's Avatar
    Gotta use the Darth Vader voice and say that out loud
    Cobra-Commander likes this.
    04-20-16 08:34 PM
  8. darkehawke's Avatar
    Dude, this is nothing new to Blackberry.
    It's been that way well before Chen took over...
    04-20-16 09:02 PM
  9. byex's Avatar
    Another one of these BlackBerry isn't secaure threads. Blah blah blah blah.

    No mobile phone is secure.
    Get use to it and move on.


    Posted via CB10
    04-20-16 10:06 PM
  10. JulesDB's Avatar
    I heard that BBM is not encripted at all unless it's under BES. Messages are just "scrambled" ...

    Posted via CB10
    Cobra-Commander likes this.
    04-20-16 11:12 PM
  11. Cobra-Commander's Avatar
    Another one of these BlackBerry isn't secaure threads. Blah blah blah blah.

    No mobile phone is secure.
    Get use to it and move on.


    Posted via CB10
    Then blackberry is a pointless business.
    Tabdus, dejanh and werkregen like this.
    04-20-16 11:18 PM
  12. Cobra-Commander's Avatar
    Dude, this is nothing new to Blackberry.
    It's been that way well before Chen took over...
    No speculation is one thing but getting caught red handed and then making official statement AFTER the fact is another.
    04-20-16 11:19 PM
  13. byex's Avatar
    Then blackberry is a pointless business.
    Get on BES and then rethink it.

    Posted via CB10
    04-20-16 11:30 PM
  14. byex's Avatar
    I heard that BBM is not encripted at all unless it's under BES. Messages are just "scrambled" ...

    Posted via CB10
    Or you can use BBM protected.

    Posted via CB10
    David Tyler likes this.
    04-20-16 11:33 PM
  15. southlander's Avatar
    I don't think so--cannot be uninstalled.
    I think you can on Priv. He said his or her other android phone. So I assuming a Priv.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    04-20-16 11:33 PM
  16. Cobra-Commander's Avatar
    Seems like a knee-jerk, emotional reaction to me. But ok, to each their own.

    When you calm down, why not take a moment to think about BBM encryption. Even if encrypted with 1 global key, it is still encrypted. In the past when the boogie-man was just criminals, it kept those criminals from being able to sniff your BBMs while you logged into the hacked public wi-fi system the criminals installed at your local coffee shop. All the while, those criminals read all the What's App messages, email messages, etc. that were all being sent in plain text. You seem to be giving undue credit to companies that are only recently, beginning to encrypt data streams. BBM, with its 1 global encryption key, has been encrypted all along.

    Ponder the fact that BlackBerry was actually complying with laws of probably every country in the world, which requires the ability of governments/governmental agencies to have LAWFUL ACCESS to transmissions made in their country. You may not like the use of 1 key, but it does make it easier for BlackBerry to maintain the security/privacy of the user while also complying with local law. Think too, that transmissions may change geographic borders and legal jurisdictions causing several countries to have claim to legal interest in the transmissions. And let's be honest here, every country should have the right to have legal access to anything that goes in/out of their country. It's part of their souverignty and it doesn't matter if we like their government/country or not.

    Think about the fact that through BES, BlackBerry may not have the keys, but the company/entity owning and running that BES has the keys. Therefore, even though it is truly end-to-end encrypted, BlackBerry engineered a way of providing end-to-end encryption while still providing compliance with local laws regarding LAWFUL ACCESS. BlackBerry may not be able to provide access to BES protected data streams, but the entity running the BES server is subject to lawful due process, so the data can still be had.

    BlackBerry engineered a means that benefited end users, BES customers and governments alike. Everything about this should be admired and supported.


    Now let's look at today's post-Snowden-era, where now, the boogie man includes governments. We know of multiple governments, including those that purport to be the beacons of freedom and democracy, are all about unlawful mass surveillance of not only foreign nationals, but of their own citizens. The tech companies that you and many like you turn to and say "THEY ARE RIGHTOUS! THEY PROVIDE TRUE END-TO-END ENCRYPTION!", those same tech companies were caught being complicit with NSA mass-surveillance efforts!

    They are just now turning to "true end-to-end" encryption, when BlackBerry's had it from the start. In the past, those companies were selling us on "trust us, your data is secure" only for news to come out they were sending user authentication or data through the internet in plain text. Many of these tech companies store massive amounts of data on YOU, because YOU put it there. Now YOU think they are more secure or they support privacy more than BlackBerry? Really?


    Keep in mind, BlackBerry is the only one of these tech companies that goes to each government and their security rating agency to have them look at their code and certify it as secure. Governments may be friendly to each other, but that doesn't mean they trust each other. The fact is that various governments, who have reason to be suspicious of other governments, have all certified BlackBerry. This should mean something.

    Tell me. What other commercial-grade provider has the security chops that BlackBerry has? Who has certified the security Apple, Google, Facebook/What's App, Microsoft, etc deploy? Until they start providing certifications by agencies that actually answer to other entities (as opposed to a certifier that will give a rubber stamp to anyone that pays them), why should you trust them?


    You are quick to condemn the one company that actually is forthcoming with what it offers, and from everything I've seen seems to be the one most willing to COMPLY WITH LAWS. I'd like to believe Apple, Google and Facebook/What's App are doing an act of civil disobedience by offering "true end-to-end" encryption with no keys, but I can't get over their past failures. Seems like it's all just PR stunts to ride the anti-government mass surveillance fad. Also seems a massive failure or complete lack of effort on their part to try and provide a means of lawful access. BlackBerry can do it. Why can't they?

    You willingly believe the self-serving marketing PR that BlackBerry's competitors are put out. Why?
    I seriously do not know what you rebutting here. I as an individual do not feel safer with BBM when company tells us without our consent they given the keys to the castle to God knows who and on top it they feel good about it.

    The very fact that Apple is trying to push the envelop by making all its communication services and their phone's encrypted without any keys being stored on their servers is commendable. They want to sell you a safe and only you have the code. And that's how it SHOULD BE. Not only does this empower the individual but puts government intervention out of Apple's hands.

    Blackberry rather than taking same path instead detoured and said, you know what? We will give the keys to your house to anyone we want. BES is end to end great, who cares I am not a corporation... I as an individual using BBM and Priv, I do not feel safer under Blackberry's umbrella. And sure as hell not going to pay for any BB service after this fiasco.
    techvisor, PygmySurfer and Eumaeus like this.
    04-20-16 11:41 PM
  17. blueberrymerry's Avatar
    I find John Chen's position on encryption... disturbing. Whooosh-hissss-whooosh

    I think he just shot off BBRY's foot. Years of marketing saying BBM is secure but it's not? Having a single global encryption key that's given freely to governments is not my definition of secure. Either BBRY marketing has to say that BBM and BB services are only secure with BES or they're not secure.
    04-20-16 11:41 PM
  18. zocster's Avatar
    Every other comms like viber now too claims end to end encryption lol
    04-20-16 11:42 PM
  19. Cobra-Commander's Avatar
    Or you can use BBM protected.

    Posted via CB10
    Who going to pay for BBM Protected after Blackberry willingly gave out its BBM key, you think they wouldn't do the same for BBM Protected? As long as their is a way for Blackberry to intervene on government behalf, any fancy service for security is irrelevant.
    OLY-JIM likes this.
    04-20-16 11:42 PM
  20. darkehawke's Avatar
    No speculation is one thing but getting caught red handed and then making official statement AFTER the fact is another.
    They've made it clear before that that was their position. No speculation about it. It was only people here who refused to believe it
    04-21-16 12:05 AM
  21. chopachain's Avatar
    04-21-16 12:15 AM
  22. DaveyBoy71's Avatar
    They've made it clear before that that was their position. No speculation about it. It was only people here who refused to believe it
    And I believed what the people here said... what a sucker.

    Posted via CB10
    04-21-16 12:32 AM
  23. Cobra-Commander's Avatar
    That has nothing to do with my point. This is not new story here, what is new story is Blackberry willingly GIVING OUT THEIR GLOBAL KEY WHICH MEANS ANY GOVERNMENT CAN SPY ON ANY INDIVIDUAL INDISCRIMINATELY NO MATTER IF HE SUSPECTED CRIMINAL OR NOT. What happens if key leaks to hackers? We already know how unsafe government servers are. We sure as hell know that since they stayed in Pakistan, it only means they caved in and gave out their key.

    What Apple is trying to do now is to remove itself from the equation with no security keys kept on their servers, this way requests for information would be futile since the only way of opening a phone or intercepting an encrypted message would require owner to willingly give out his password under court of law.

    Meaning I CHOOSE if I want to give out my information to authorities and nobody else.

    This is how it should be not forcing companies to do government's bidding without our consent.
    techvisor and arkenoi like this.
    04-21-16 12:43 AM
  24. CNX66's Avatar
    Who going to pay for BBM Protected after Blackberry willingly gave out its BBM key, you think they wouldn't do the same for BBM Protected? As long as their is a way for Blackberry to intervene on government behalf, any fancy service for security is irrelevant.
    Okay I was reading your email emotional and way too long article:

    - BBM Protected keys are not at BlackBerry.

    - You are a 'share holder' you said? So you want to be a professional? Get on BES12 with Good or AFW with your priv or do not go on BES and use BBM Protected messaging and voice for example. And don't start with this had to be included because your professional email account is also an extra paid service.

    - Snowden? Are you serious? The "most wanted man on the run"? You believe that story for real?

    Sorry for my English.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    04-21-16 12:46 AM
  25. BanffMoose's Avatar
    I seriously do not know what you rebutting here. I as an individual do not feel safer with BBM when company tells us without our consent they given the keys to the castle to God knows who and on top it they feel good about it.

    The very fact that Apple is trying to push the envelop by making all its communication services and their phone's encrypted without any keys being stored on their servers is commendable. They want to sell you a safe and only you have the code. And that's how it SHOULD BE. Not only does this empower the individual but puts government intervention out of Apple's hands.

    Blackberry rather than taking same path instead detoured and said, you know what? We will give the keys to your house to anyone we want. BES is end to end great, who cares I am not a corporation... I as an individual using BBM and Priv, I do not feel safer under Blackberry's umbrella. And sure as hell not going to pay for any BB service after this fiasco.
    Apple is hardly doing anything you think they are doing. They may deliver the data to your device "encrypted," but they will turn around and store your data on their server. How do you think their data syncing with multiple devices works? They have to have your data to make the sync happen. That data is then given to the very government you rail about. Or did you miss the part where all data prior to the San Bernadino terrorist turning that feature off was already given to the government?

    Go ahead, try sending your data to BlackBerry for storage. You can't. They never provided such a service because it will compromise your privacy! Why did BlackBerry Bridge and Balance require a BlackBerry phone? BlackBerry got a major black eye from the public for the PlayBook not having an email client other than Bridge. Because the data only resides on the one device, your phone. Bridge and Balance makes it look like you're doing things to your data on a device other than the phone, but in actuality everything is done on the phone! Why did they do that? Again for YOUR privacy and data security.

    The most the governments are getting from BlackBerry (and again supposedly under LAWFUL ACCESS) is basic BBM messages in real time. All your email, SMS, Facebook postings, etc can be obtained by your service provider (including Apple) without your knowing. BlackBerry has always operated like this, and they have helped law enforcement catch bad guys many times. They did it years ago in London when it came rioters, and more recently to catch the drug lord El Chapo. (Someone correctly if I got the London event or drug lord's name wrong.)

    What did Apple do? They tried to get in the way of obtaining information from a known terrorist, all the while giving you a false sense of security. Way to go Apple!



    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by Fret Madden; 04-21-16 at 09:33 PM. Reason: Personal Attacks
    04-21-16 12:56 AM
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