02-27-16 02:08 PM
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  1. sorinv's Avatar
    Lenovo sniffed the waters. At the time they were not that big of a company and already were working on two major acquisitions. I bet the state of BlackBerry's finances scared them off more than the Canadian Government. BlackBerry at the time was losing massive amounts of money. They are the 5th largest mobile phone company in the world. I doubt Lenovo had any interest in getting into the OS business.
    Yes they did. It's not like IBM's laptop business was booming when Lenovo bought it. The Chinese would have loved to demolish the West's security in one simple sweep for just a few billion dollars.
    02-10-16 05:48 PM
  2. grover5's Avatar
    I moved away from BB10 because I needed good Google app integration, particularly Drive, for work. I also wanted a more modern specd device. I love BB10 but I'm very happy with my Nexus 6. I almost bought a passport but I needed more functionality and fewer workarounds. The Nexus 6 gave me that.
    TgeekB and Levski Levov like this.
    02-10-16 05:50 PM
  3. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    Leaving your sarcasm aside, if it were such a great idea, why isn't Priv selling?
    I suspect you are correct about low Priv sales but I will wait for the next earnings report to make up my mind.

    As for why the Priv is not selling, if indeed it isn't.
    Many reasons, but the fact that it isn't popular with the good old bb10 users like you is just background noise.
    Desperate emails from BlackBerry not withstanding, you and yours just don't matter at all in the grand scheme of things.

    Thanks for asking.
    JeepBB likes this.
    02-10-16 06:22 PM
  4. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    No, BB spent millions on the launch of BB10. Did you never visit a phone store in the Spring of 2013? Every store I went into had BB10 advertising. BB had a major launch of the new OS. The type of marketing BB had for the launch was very expensive and requires a lot of employees. The problem was two fold, the OS was just too late to the market and BB10 was buggy and was not ready for release. Retailers had high level of returns. By September BlackBerry was swimming in unsold inventory of BB10 phones. BlackBerry finances were in shambles and the Sr. Mgnt and Board gave up and posted a For Sale sign on the company.

    Today one of the biggest problems BlackBerry has is the absence of any employees calling on retailers. Thor layed off all of the field reps before he was let go. I doubt any person currently working in retail phone stores has ever met anybody from BlackBerry.
    The idea that every store had BlackBerry advertising in Spring of 2013 is completely wrong.
    02-10-16 07:06 PM
  5. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    You've got to remember that sans John Chen, BB10 didn't do all that badly. Thor sold five million Z10s and he sold over 7 million phones the first quarter BB10 was released. He had a five year plan to grow BB10, but he was gone before the first year was done.
    The Z10 didn't sell 5M in the first YEAR, much less the first quarter. I have no idea where you got those numbers, but they are fantasy. BB sold 1M phones into sales channels (but not to end-users) during the launch quarter (the launch was 2 months into that quarter, so it wasn't a full quarter) and another 3M into channels in the first full quarter (including the first Q10s). But those numbers didn't reflect the low sell-through numbers, which is why BB changed the way they reported sales starting with the fall quarter, and why they had a $1B writedown in that quarter, though it wasn't officially recognized until the following quarter.
    DrBoomBotz and JeepBB like this.
    02-10-16 08:07 PM
  6. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    The Z10 didn't sell 5M in the first YEAR, much less the first quarter. I have no idea where you got those numbers, but they are fantasy. BB sold 1M phones into sales channels (but not to end-users) during the launch quarter (the launch was 2 months into that quarter, so it wasn't a full quarter) and another 3M into channels in the first full quarter (including the first Q10s). But those numbers didn't reflect the low sell-through numbers, which is why BB changed the way they reported sales starting with the fall quarter, and why they had a $1B writedown in that quarter, though it wasn't officially recognized until the following quarter.
    In support of what Troy is saying https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channel_stuffing
    02-10-16 08:26 PM
  7. MrScotian's Avatar
    No, BB spent millions on the launch of BB10. Did you never visit a phone store in the Spring of 2013? Every store I went into had BB10 advertising.
    I HAVE YET to see a single BB10 ad in print, online, in a store, on TV or hear one on the radio. Not one. Zero. If they spent millions on advertising, they got ripped off.

    I still run into people that don't know that BlackBerry moved on from BBOS. How is that possible if they did such a massive ad campaign? No, the simple answer is that they didn't.
    crackberry_geek likes this.
    02-10-16 09:50 PM
  8. DonHB's Avatar
    What can be said is that the marketing was ineffective due to lack of awareness that BB10 exists or even that BlackBerry has replacements for the BBOS product line.
    crackberry_geek and MikeX74 like this.
    02-10-16 10:06 PM
  9. JeepBB's Avatar
    Leaving your sarcasm aside, if it were such a great idea, why isn't Priv selling?
    The high price, unfinished state of the BB Apps and OS (e.g. the much reported battery management and hot-running issues) and the tarnished BlackBerry name would be my top three picks.

    Is there a prize?
    Elephant_Canyon likes this.
    02-11-16 02:24 AM
  10. hjc73734's Avatar
    Maybe if they gave the OS the ability to rotate to landscape mode it would sell better. LOL

    What a huge oversight.
    02-11-16 02:53 AM
  11. MmmHmm's Avatar
    I HAVE YET to see a single BB10 ad in print, online, in a store, on TV or hear one on the radio. Not one. Zero. If they spent millions on advertising, they got ripped off.

    I still run into people that don't know that BlackBerry moved on from BBOS. How is that possible if they did such a massive ad campaign? No, the simple answer is that they didn't.
    I feel that BlackBerry didn't even try with BB10...-imageuploadedbycb-forums1455192531.326037.jpgI feel that BlackBerry didn't even try with BB10...-imageuploadedbycb-forums1455192540.852520.jpgI feel that BlackBerry didn't even try with BB10...-imageuploadedbycb-forums1455192552.336612.jpgI feel that BlackBerry didn't even try with BB10...-imageuploadedbycb-forums1455192563.105874.jpgI feel that BlackBerry didn't even try with BB10...-imageuploadedbycb-forums1455192574.381153.jpgI feel that BlackBerry didn't even try with BB10...-imageuploadedbycb-forums1455192584.250031.jpgI feel that BlackBerry didn't even try with BB10...-imageuploadedbycb-forums1455192594.741633.jpgI feel that BlackBerry didn't even try with BB10...-imageuploadedbycb-forums1455192602.358889.jpg

    BB10 was marketed.I feel that BlackBerry didn't even try with BB10...-imageuploadedbycb-forums1455192760.872465.jpg
    02-11-16 06:11 AM
  12. sorinv's Avatar
    I suspect you are correct about low Priv sales but I will wait for the next earnings report to make up my mind.

    As for why the Priv is not selling, if indeed it isn't.
    Many reasons, but the fact that it isn't popular with the good old bb10 users like you is just background noise.
    Desperate emails from BlackBerry not withstanding, you and yours just don't matter at all in the grand scheme of things.

    Thanks for asking.
    Sure. In the grand scheme of things no individual matters. Not Einstein, not Newton. If they hadn't been born, others would have made those discoveries.
    So, yes, those who buy the Priv don't matter either. Not even to BlackBerry!
    02-11-16 06:49 AM
  13. sorinv's Avatar
    The Z10 didn't sell 5M in the first YEAR, much less the first quarter. I have no idea where you got those numbers, but they are fantasy. BB sold 1M phones into sales channels (but not to end-users) during the launch quarter (the launch was 2 months into that quarter, so it wasn't a full quarter) and another 3M into channels in the first full quarter (including the first Q10s). But those numbers didn't reflect the low sell-through numbers, which is why BB changed the way they reported sales starting with the fall quarter, and why they had a $1B writedown in that quarter, though it wasn't officially recognized until the following quarter.
    Yes. We know. According to you 90% percent of the current 30M BlackBerry phone users are on BBOS and they stayed away from BB10 because they wanted an app ecosystem with Google playstore and found it on BBOS.
    No BB10 phone sold in the last three years yet BlackBerry sold 10.8M BBOS phones in 2013 and 5.8M in 2014.
    02-11-16 06:56 AM
  14. Jerry A's Avatar
    Questioned were the design decisions made for BB10 when BlackBerry transitioned development from Playbook OS to BB10. Perhaps around the time that the Android environment was added to the Playbook. BlackBerry could have spearheaded a drive for non-Google encumbered Android providing an API that would have allowed the device owner to chose services instead of being tied to Google. Services would not be tied to apps and apps would not be tied to services (i.e. extending the API but retaining compatibility with AOSP). BB10 would be running on top of QNX potentially allowing third party tool developers to support the platform including, but not limited to native development. BlackBerry's open sourced Android APIs would provide a framework for filling in missing services that AOSP adopters could use. Thus creating the beginnings of an non-Google non-Apple "ecosystem" where service providers could compete for customers alongside app developers.

    Qt, the basis for Cascades and used for development on QNX Neutrino, was not developed by QNX. A more open platform than iOS and Google's Android (with GMS) would have been and still is an attractive proposition for developers. App development on BB10 didn't need to be any more proprietary than on QNX.
    So, make a BlackBerry app store that supported Android apps without requiring Google Play Services? What a great idea.

    Oh wait, they did that - it was called BlackBerry World. BlackBerry even sponsored a whole bunch of Port-A-Thons showing devs how to migrate their apps to BBW.

    Amazon also did that. Neither has received much support from a number if the "key" apps which the typical user desires.

    Just because you build it does not mean "they" (apps or users) will come.
    JeepBB likes this.
    02-11-16 07:04 AM
  15. sorinv's Avatar
    The high price, unfinished state of the BB Apps and OS (e.g. the much reported battery management and hot-running issues) and the tarnished BlackBerry name would be my top three picks.

    Is there a prize?
    You also missed:
    1) lack of availability on launch
    2) lack of advertising
    3) lack of trust in product by CEO, publicly advertised
    4) BB10 users who do not want android and/or google

    All of which apply to all BB10 phones under Chen.
    crackberry_geek likes this.
    02-11-16 07:04 AM
  16. JeepBB's Avatar
    Yes. We know. According to you 90% percent of the current 30M BlackBerry phone users are on BBOS and they stayed away from BB10 because they wanted an app ecosystem with Google playstore and found it on BBOS.
    No BB10 phone sold in the last three years yet BlackBerry sold 10.8M BBOS phones in 2013 and 5.8M in 2014.

    It's not necessary for you to believe Troy, because I recognise that won't happen. However, perhaps you'll believe BlackBerry?

    Along with each ER, or the later analyst call, BB have released the number of phones sold, and the proportion of BBOS:BB10. Those numbers have been posted here several times, and I'm sure a Google search will find them. Early BB10 sales were dreadful, and it took several quarters for BB10 sales to overtake BBOS.

    The user base figures have also been published by BB. Conite posted them a day or so back - 10M of each (BBOS & BB10) as of last Summer... I doubt those numbers have increased since, do you?

    Almost uniquely, BB declined to publish the OS breakdown of the 700k devices sold last quarter, IMO because it would reveal that the Priv is selling badly, but previous quarter's sales figures are available.

    But you carry on regardless in your belief that BB10 was a sales triumph if you want.
    DrBoomBotz likes this.
    02-11-16 07:14 AM
  17. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    Sure. In the grand scheme of things no individual matters. Not Einstein, not Newton. If they hadn't been born, others would have made those discoveries.
    So, yes, those who buy the Priv don't matter either. Not even to BlackBerry!
    Ok so much for implicit context.
    I meant that BB10 users who don't want apps and who vehemently mistrust Google are not even in the vicinity of the target audience for the Priv.

    BB10 users are not a big enough user base to support BB10.
    BB10 fans who wish to avoid google services and apps are a small subset of the group above.

    Implying that Priv sales are low because this utterly insignificant group won't buy an full-on android device is a real stretch.
    Last edited by DrBoomBotz; 02-11-16 at 08:01 AM.
    JeepBB likes this.
    02-11-16 07:45 AM
  18. Sridhara Shankara's Avatar
    Yes it is not worth the while in keeping such small number of devices in usage at least, blackberry can't blunted and dented as they are in the market.The wisest thing should have been .... hive of 10 platform to eager suitors( of which there were several many quarters ago).But, right now I do not think anyone will be remotely interested in BB10 platform
    02-11-16 08:02 AM
  19. pantlesspenguin's Avatar
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    BB10 was marketed.Click image for larger version. 

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    Ha, I see the pic I took at Best Buy in there!

    In addition to all those, there is also this commercial which played a LOT during the 2013 NCAA tournament:
    02-11-16 10:10 AM
  20. domsons's Avatar
    You are right what has happened is that there is nobody in the BB team who is believing in the product and the software.
    crackberry_geek likes this.
    02-11-16 11:32 AM
  21. TiFr3d's Avatar
    It's still not too late. If I were running BlackBerry, I would start by ordering development of application support for Qt 5 for a future 10.4 or 10.5. BB10 Android runtime to support Marshmallow 6.0 is critical and necessary for BB10 to survive. Getting Google Play Services on BB10 would be nice, too, but BlackBerry would have to convince Google to play along.

    Posted via CB10 | SQC100-4 Classic in Cobalt Blue
    I have google play on my passport !?

    I love my passport, the only thing that miss me is Remember V2.0 with evernote reminder, and flagged email exchange category syncing or a remember desktop syncing app or remember in Blend...
    02-11-16 12:20 PM
  22. smoothrunnings's Avatar
    It's still not too late. If I were running BlackBerry, I would start by ordering development of application support for Qt 5 for a future 10.4 or 10.5. BB10 Android runtime to support Marshmallow 6.0 is critical and necessary for BB10 to survive. Getting Google Play Services on BB10 would be nice, too, but BlackBerry would have to convince Google to play along.

    Posted via CB10 | SQC100-4 Classic in Cobalt Blue
    Blackberry decided to release a device with an OS that no one can relate to. It's like MS deciding to re-write Windows from scratch and have nothing in it that people can relate it from the previous version of Windows. It would bomb just like BB10 has done. Now that they have tested the waters using an OS that people can relate to, the Android OS and the Priv, they finally have realized their mistake with BB10 and what they now need to do moving forwards; which is what we have seen them do already.

    Saying BBRY hasn't done enough just doesn't cut it. Their BB10 OS just can't be related to anything else, that includes the previous BBOS devices. The change is so drastrict that people would prefer to use a Android or iOS device, which have changed over the years but not kept the functionality, etc the same in their OS's that people continue to want to use them.

    Thanks,
    JeepBB likes this.
    02-11-16 12:43 PM
  23. MrScotian's Avatar
    BB10 was marketed.
    That is quite impressive! Still, doesn't change that fact that we are 3 years on in BB10 and I saw my first adverts today.
    crackberry_geek and DonHB like this.
    02-11-16 12:45 PM
  24. JeepBB's Avatar
    That is quite impressive! Still, doesn't change that fact that we are 3 years on in BB10 and I saw my first adverts today.
    Erm... not wishing to be too insulting, but the fact that you didn't notice all that marketing and advertising is more a reflection on you rather than on BB.

    As has been shown above, there was significant advertising and I can confirm that here in the UK the story was similar... heavy and widespread advertising of both Z10 and Q10 at the time of their launches. Lots of press coverage - not only in the expected tech journals but also in mainstream daily newspapers read by millions of people. Special events held in carrier stores and in Selfridges - the Selfridge's events in particular received heavy (and generally favourable) press coverage.

    As I've said (in some thread somewhere, lol) nobody who was even just vaguely interested in phones could have possibly been unaware that BlackBerry had new phones and a new OS. It was everywhere!

    Of course that was then. You won't have seen any recent BB10 adverts because even BB knew that it was futile to spend money pushing BB10 by mid-2014 at the latest. But, at the time it mattered - the Z10 and Q10 launches - you couldn't move for BB10 advertising and news.
    Witmen likes this.
    02-11-16 01:26 PM
  25. MmmHmm's Avatar
    That is quite impressive! Still, doesn't change that fact that we are 3 years on in BB10 and I saw my first adverts today.
    My impression of the situation is that BB did market BB10 phones in the likely major markets at first through all the traditional mediums (within reasonable monetary limits in light of BBs size and assets - it was and is no Apple or Samsung sized behemoth). After a billion dollar write down on Z10s and the need to take on new debt in the form of a stock deal to stay afloat, BB resigned itself to the fact that BB10 would likely only become a niche OS. The marketing budget and tactics changed accordingly. Niche products are not advertised with mass marketing.

    Unfortunately, BB10 was not viable even as a niche product. I don't believe BB acted entirely unreasonably throughout this in light of the facts as it knew them at the relevant times. I don't believe BB should have spent every last penny on mass marketing a product that was not gaining traction and had obvious deficiencies compared to competitors (notably a poor ecosystem). BB10 failed but BB lives on to fight another day. The company hasn't been managed quite as poorly in recent years as is sometimes portrayed on here. Unfortunately it's fighting an uphill battle and has definitely struggled as a result.
    02-11-16 01:26 PM
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