[Smokeaire]

The Leap, Classic and Passport have not met sales expectations. Most likely the market for a high end BB10 device is just not there. The Android PRIV is a hail Mary pass. It could be a modest success or a dud but the old path was not working either.

Posted via CB10

I wouldn't consider the Classic as a high end device.

[JulesDB]

Now all BlackBerry 10 devices die lo. Android win lo. So John Chen is making the right move. Kill BlackBerry 10... our hope is gone. We all die together with BlackBerry 10. Die die die..

Posted via CB10

Are you paid by Google? In case you're not, check your attitude when you log in here: it's a BlackBerry fan site.

Anyway it was not a JC move but Louk's choice to go Android and FYI, Android Priv is not winning at all, by the buzz going...

Posted via CB10

[Smokeaire]

Are you paid by Google? In case you're not, check your attitude when you log in here: it's a BlackBerry fan site.

Anyway it was not a JC move but Louk's choice to go Android and FYI, Android Priv is not winning at all, by the buzz going...

Posted via CB10

This is a sight where all opinions are welcomed. I can name a sight where only Blackberry positive comments are welcomed and all others are derided, even comments that disparage Crackberry are encouraged. Might be your kind of sight.

[TgeekB]

This is a sight where all opinions are welcomed. I can name a sight where only Blackberry positive comments are welcomed and all others are derided, even comments that disparage Crackberry are encouraged. Might be your kind of sight.

Yup. As crazy as this site gets sometimes, that one is bonkers!

[sorinv]

Three utterly unsubstantiated statements.

And I assume that you have irrefutable proof that my statements are unsubstantiated. You can even provide three links to prove me wrong, since you are so utterly sure.
Can't you see how lonely it has gotten in these forums? Not too many posters beyond the moderators talking to themselves...

[Elephant_Canyon]

And I assume that you have irrefutable proof that my statements are unsubstantiated.

That's not how burden of proof works in debate. You made the affirmative statements, it's your job to provide evidence that they're true.

[conite]

And I assume that you have irrefutable proof that my statements are unsubstantiated.

You provided no proof, therefore your statements are unsubstantiated.

http://www.webster-dictionary.org/de...nsubstantiated

You made three unsubstantiated statements:

1) The primary reason for BB10 users not moving to Priv is because of Google data mining.
2) A BB10 slider would have outsold the Android slider.
3) The Priv is not selling well.

You may have a gut feel, and you may be right, but you have absolutely no data to back it up. I would be more hesitant to report them as "facts".

[sorinv]

Nope. My statements were in response to somebody else's claim that people did not move from BBOS to bb10 because they were missing Google playstore. As if they had that in bb0s.
And, as the reduced numbers of posts in crackberry of late, the 100k downloads of bb apps in the Google play store, and BlackBerry 's deserted booth at MWC show, Priv isn't selling.

Finally, there are numerous statements from BB10 users in these forums explaining that they do not want to move to android because of Google.

But anyway, those who are hired here to defend Chen by repeating the same unsubstantiated statement that mismanagement from CEO and Board and lack of marketing were not to blame for bb10's failure, have to continue hoping for the best. It's understandable.

Unfortunately, Google play services and apps don't seem to be able to save BlackBerry hardware either...
Chen is losing even the US Navy as customers...I guess they are not "business" customers.

[ChrisLeNeve]

The Leap, Classic and Passport have not met sales expectations.

You don't know that. It's not because you pretend you know that you do.

Posted via CB10

[tufcustomer]

But anyway, those who are hired here to defend Chen by repeating the same unsubstantiated statement that mismanagement from CEO and Board and lack of marketing were not to blame for bb10's failure, have to continue hoping for the best. It's understandable.

What the heck are you rambling about? Hired to defend Chen? Maybe those claiming your statements are unsubstantiated are those who know there was more to BB10's failure than just marketing and mismanagement. Costly comparatively low spec devices, no real app solution, no incentive to move from a different platform, any of those ring a bell?

Posted via CB10

[ubizmo]

Finally, there are numerous statements from BB10 users in these forums explaining that they do not want to move to android because of Google.

There's also an extremely long thread for people who have left BB10 for other platforms, and a large number of those people went to Android. If you're going to use CB posts as your database, use all the relevant ones. It's not as though those who refuse to move to Android are the only ones who have expressed themselves here.

Then consider those who are on BB10 who use Gmail for their personal mail. We know there are plenty of these, due to the lengthy threads about getting Gmail to sync properly, archive properly, and so on. We also have very long threads dedicated to running Google Play and/or Snap on BB10. These facts also suggest that many BB10 users aren't that allergic to Google data-mining.

In short, we have plenty of evidence on CB alone that people have been leaving BB10 in droves to go to Android, long before the Priv was released, and that many others were and are happily using some Google services on their BB10 phones, and would gladly use more such services if they were available.

[DrBoomBotz]

Nope. My statements were in response to somebody else's claim that people did not move from BBOS to bb10 because they were missing Google playstore.

So because you made claims in response to someone else's claim, you are relieved of the burden of proof?

[JulesDB]

This is a sight where all opinions are welcomed. I can name a sight where only Blackberry positive comments are welcomed and all others are derided, even comments that disparage Crackberry are encouraged. Might be your kind of sight.

All opinions are always welcomed.

Not all attitudes, tho.

Posted via CB10

[JeepBB]

What the heck are you rambling about? Hired to defend Chen? Maybe those claiming your statements are unsubstantiated are those who know there was more to BB10's failure than just marketing and mismanagement. Costly comparatively low spec devices, no real app solution, no incentive to move from a different platform, any of those ring a bell?

I can get money for defending Chen? Who knew?

Where do I send my invoices? Anyone know?

I'm not holding out much hope of being paid as I'm still waiting for the money I'm due from Apple from way back when I was frequently accused of being an Apple shill. Those damn iWelchers!

[tufcustomer]

I can get money for defending Chen? Who knew?

Where do I send my invoices? Anyone know?

I'm not holding out much hope of being paid as I'm still waiting for the money I'm due from Apple from way back when I was frequently accused of being an Apple shill. Those damn iWelchers!

Lol! It was news to me too. Evidently we need to look into this.

Posted via CB10

[Ronindan]

I can get money for defending Chen? Who knew?

Where do I send my invoices? Anyone know?

I'm not holding out much hope of being paid as I'm still waiting for the money I'm due from Apple from way back when I was frequently accused of being an Apple shill. Those damn iWelchers!

You probably have a better chance of getting paid compared to some bb10 3rd party app developer

[eshropshire]

You don't know that. It's not because you pretend you know that you do.

Posted via CB10

What is know that at an ASP of $250 BB can sell all the phones they want and it is still killing them financially.

[TgeekB]

I can get money for defending Chen? Who knew?

Where do I send my invoices? Anyone know?

I'm not holding out much hope of being paid as I'm still waiting for the money I'm due from Apple from way back when I was frequently accused of being an Apple shill. Those damn iWelchers!

BlackBerry is hiring again! Great news!

[ChrisLeNeve]

What is know that at an ASP of $250 BB can sell all the phones they want and it is still killing them financially.

No, you don't even know that. I know for a fact that the ASP is at least 100 higher than your guess, actually.

Posted via CB10

[app_Developer]

You probably have a better chance of getting paid compared to some bb10 3rd party app developer

So the good news is I hear we are getting paid.

The bad news is we're getting paid in BlackBerry Leaps. Oh, and fulfillment is being handled by Digital River.

[sorinv]

What the heck are you rambling about? Hired to defend Chen? Maybe those claiming your statements are unsubstantiated are those who know there was more to BB10's failure than just marketing and mismanagement. Costly comparatively low spec devices, no real app solution, no incentive to move from a different platform, any of those ring a bell?

Posted via CB10

Low spec devices and no real app solutions are all under mismanagement.

[sorinv]

There's also an extremely long thread for people who have left BB10 for other platforms, and a large number of those people went to Android. If you're going to use CB posts as your database, use all the relevant ones. It's not as though those who refuse to move to Android are the only ones who have expressed themselves here.

Then consider those who are on BB10 who use Gmail for their personal mail. We know there are plenty of these, due to the lengthy threads about getting Gmail to sync properly, archive properly, and so on. We also have very long threads dedicated to running Google Play and/or Snap on BB10. These facts also suggest that many BB10 users aren't that allergic to Google data-mining.

In short, we have plenty of evidence on CB alone that people have been leaving BB10 in droves to go to Android, long before the Priv was released, and that many others were and are happily using some Google services on their BB10 phones, and would gladly use more such services if they were available.

I have not said that there were not people who hadn't moved to android already.
On the contrary, all I said was that most of those who have not already moved from bb10 to android, decided not to because they did not want more Google in their lives.
But we can always argue on fine details, the outcome is the same. Both bb10 and priv are failing to save BlackBerry hardware.
What I don't understand is the zeal with which some here wish that bb10 is terminated faster to save priv.
The two are only correlated in the repeated and identical mistakes management made and the lack of marketing common to both.

What we will never know is what would have happened if BlackBerry had marketed the devices like their competitors do (scaled down based on revenue and resources) and if, instead of writing apps for android, BlackBerry would have written the missing major apps for bb10.
That would obviously not have solved all the app problems, but would have convinced other app developers and users that BlackBerry is actually making an effort to develop the ecosystem.

But again, we will never know because neither marketing nor app development happened, except for android!
Comparing with Microsoft Windows is not necessarily conclusive because we can also compare with BlackBerry 10 years ago and Google and Apple 10 years ago...

[tufcustomer]

Low spec devices and no real app solutions are all under mismanagement.

Low spec maybe, apps not at all. They offered to build for companies and they still didn't bring their app to BB10. Not sure what else you can do.

Posted via CB10

[sorinv]

Google paid Apple 1B dollars just to have Google search by default on iphones.
There are things management can do with money: buy companies (like Chen did) or buy apps, or pay your employees to develop them, like they do now with BlackBerry android apps for Priv.
Seems to me that no third party developers want to write android apps for the Priv. How has going Google solved that problem?

Either way, apps, millions of them, including google's, aren't growing BlackBerry's user base. The numbers continue to dwindle after the priv launch.

So no, it's not the lack of apps, even though many like to delude themselves with that.

It's everything: BlackBerry itself as a brand has been tarnished since 2009 or even earlier, and only a significant public relations campaign and excellent hardware and software, much better than what others are offering on android or ioS, could change that.
Copying others by going to android is not the solution.

[Jerry A]

Apps being the failure of BB10 doesn't equal apps being the success of the Priv.

But it may give the Priv a fighting chance that BB10 never had.

As for labelling the Priv a failure, I think you're being premature in your assessment - given that it's still rolling out to carriers and markets.