[nwansukka]

heins ordered too many bb10 devices and was stuck with it when folks didnt buy. so from day one there were loosing money. they never recovered. Heins was supposed to be a supplychain guy but he messed things up by being too bullish.

[crackberry_geek]

As I've said (in some thread somewhere, lol) nobody who was even just vaguely interested in phones could have possibly been unaware that BlackBerry had new phones and a new OS. It was everywhere!

Folks can say that all day long... or post a dozen pictures here or there... but it doesn't make it true.

I've traveled in over 30 countries since BB10 launch. Planes, trains, airports, hotels, malls, businesses, taxis, clubs, boats, airport lounges, banks... etc, etc.

And with the exception of Dubai, never saw one example of those supposedly everywhere advertisements. I even happened to miss the stupid Super Bowl ad because I was flying across the Atlantic at the time.

[conite]

In Canada, I couldn't watch TV without seeing the "Keep Moving" commercials. All the box stores had big displays, and the carriers were advertising constantly - flyers, newspaper ads, etc.

Remember this? It was ingrained into my skull:

[JeepBB]

Folks can say that all day long... or post a dozen pictures here or there... but it doesn't make it true.

You don't believe that BB10 was advertised and promoted widely by BB and the carriers. People have posted photographic evidence that they did, both in this thread, and in dozens of other threads I seen over the years I've been here. Clearly there is nothing that will ever convince you of this "truth" as it would remove the central prop of your frequently stated premise that BB10 didn't sell because "nobody knew about BB10".

This is a discussion without resolution, so I'll stop at this point.

[TgeekB]

Folks can say that all day long... or post a dozen pictures here or there... but it doesn't make it true.

I've traveled in over 30 countries since BB10 launch. Planes, trains, airports, hotels, malls, businesses, taxis, clubs, boats, airport lounges, banks... etc, etc.

And with the exception of Dubai, never saw one example of those supposedly everywhere advertisements. I even happened to miss the stupid Super Bowl ad because I was flying across the Atlantic at the time.

It certainly wasn't at the level of Apple, but there was advertising on TV and in AT&T stores in the U.S.

[eshropshire]

You don't believe that BB10 was advertised and promoted widely by BB and the carriers. People have posted photographic evidence that they did, both in this thread, and in dozens of other threads I seen over the years I've been here. Clearly there is nothing that will ever convince you of this "truth" as it would remove the central prop of your frequently stated premise that BB10 didn't sell because "nobody knew about BB10".

This is a discussion without resolution, so I'll stop at this point.

Fully agree, if someone wants to forget or not remember the BB10 launch campaign that is fine, but it was real and big. Thor had ordered tons of phones and had planned on making a big splash. Unfortunatly a combination of factors (all Blackberry's in making) made all of marketing useless. No amount of advertising is going to help sell a product that was launched way too late and quickly developed a reputation as a buggy product.

Some here seem to forget all the problems with BB10 1.x. Combined with this was a lot of issues with BES 10. The combination of BB10 and BES10 were suppose to be the future. By the end of summer in 2013 both products were having big problems in the market. By September BlackBerry had a lot of unsold inventory, this is a big problem for a hardware company. BlackBerry was on the hook for all of the unsold inventory. The situation because so bad Heins and the Board had given up and put BlackBerry up for sale. This was a huge PR nightmare - no marketing in the world is going overcome this level of bad press. Combined was several quarters of not just bad, but disastrous results - not just losses, but burning through tons of cash.

The Chairman and CEO were fired and by the end of 2013 Chen was brought in as COB and Temporary CEO. The company was in total crisis mode. The cash burn was so bad that analysts were predicting when BB would run out of cash. Without cash BB could not build phones, no manufacture is going to stock parts and build inventory for a company that can't cover their costs. Chen had two main goals and he had to do them fast. Stop the cash burn and get rid of the old guard inside BB that could not comprehend that BlackBerry was dying. BlackBerry employees had never seemed to have a since of urgency. They took way too long developing BB10 and they seemed to be unwilling to burn the midnight oil to fix BES and BB10. The updates did finally get out, BES 12 is a good product and BB10 came together with ver 2.1. The problem is that in the technology market it is almost impossible to make a good second impression. If BB10 1.0 had been launched in the Spring of 2013 with the quality of version 2.1 I believe BlackBerry would be a different company today. Not strong, but would probably have about 3-5% market share.

[Zeratul57]

I dont care if they go to one BB10 phone a year. Just keep it running until something else can be done.

[conite]

I dont care if they go to one BB10 phone a year. Just keep it running until something else can be done.

The "something else" is the Priv.

[BallRockReaper]

The PRIV is not a real BlackBerry... it's sad to read that most people see the same, but BlackBerry does not.

[GadgetTravel]

It certainly wasn't at the level of Apple, but there was advertising on TV and in AT&T stores in the U.S.

Yes, apple was more a bit over 350 million but BB was 90 million which is a lot when you consider how much bigger apple is.

[GadgetTravel]

The PRIV is not a real BlackBerry... it's sad to read that most people see the same, but BlackBerry does not.

As of now that is John Chen's decision.

[MmmHmm]

Folks can say that all day long... or post a dozen pictures here or there... but it doesn't make it true.

I've traveled in over 30 countries since BB10 launch. Planes, trains, airports, hotels, malls, businesses, taxis, clubs, boats, airport lounges, banks... etc, etc.

And with the exception of Dubai, never saw one example of those supposedly everywhere advertisements. I even happened to miss the stupid Super Bowl ad because I was flying across the Atlantic at the time.

Blackberry doubled its advertising budget to 90 million the year of BB10s release (http://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-DGB-34165). They obviously spent the money on something and there's photographic evidence that they did marketing in print, in stores, on billboards, on TV, etc. But I guess your anecdotal personal experience is enough proof to the contrary?

BlackBerry never had extremely deep pockets so they did as much as they could within a reasonable budget. No, not everyone on earth is going to personally see their marketing, but that doesn't mean there's was no marketing.

[Savior4Life]

I sort off agree, it worked for apple, two phones a year/cycle no more or less and keep updating. Thought this for a while BB10 ended up with a mixed bag (apart from the beautiful passport).
Should have been a top pkb and vkb only, done!
I'm not interested in android either and will probably go ios when the time comes tho I always liked the look of Sony phones if I was.
I think apps are an issue and it does annoy me some of my apps are work arounds ie fitness tracker to connect to strava, but for now I manage, but in future if I change it will be for the full on app experience.

Swiped on my beautiful Passport!

I went from my Z10 to a Xperia Z5 Compact and I would definitely recommend it. I'd never go back to using a BBRY at their current state. Battery life is better than any phone you will ever have. At the moment it is 4:53 PM, end of my work day and I have 78% battery life. Love the hardware and Sony's slight twist on Android. Pretty much better in every way I'd say. Kinda miss the BBRY virtual keyboard but you can get it for Android just not on this device at the moment.

[DonHB]

Just because you build it does not mean "they" (apps or users) will come.

At the time BB10 entered development several handset makers that did not want to license GMS were working on Android handsets. There was no attempt to provide the equivalent of the Android-CDD to create an alternate market for non-GMS devices.

[Jerry A]

At the time BB10 entered development several handset makers that did not want to license GMS were working on Android handsets. There was no attempt to provide the equivalent of the Android-CDD to create an alternate market for non-GMS devices.

There was. The Amazon App Store used this as their pitch to handset makers and app developers. And this was 2 years before BB10.

Many manufacturers were also doing their own stores (HTC, Samsung and i think even ASUS).

And they've all had second-class levels of success (or worse).

Big app developers didn't show up or support announced partnerships (then again the industry is rife with partnership announcements which never amount to anything).

And let's not get started on the lack of Google apps in these other markets. While many of this forum may few that as a good thing, the average consumer doesn't.

[eshropshire]

The PRIV is not a real BlackBerry... it's sad to read that most people see the same, but BlackBerry does not.

No, the diehard BB10 "I'm not dead yet" crowd thinks this way. Everyone else knows the Priv and the upcoming Vienna are BlackBerry phones.

[MrScotian]

Erm... not wishing to be too insulting, but the fact that you didn't notice all that marketing and advertising is more a reflection on you rather than on BB.

I don't take it as an insult. The ads were nowhere around me and that's the truth. If they were for others, great. I live just outside Montreal and I got a Z10 (2 1/2 years ago) and then a Z30 (1 1/2 years ago). Both phones were not in stock with Bell and I had to have them ordered. My Bell store tried to dissuade me from getting a BlackBerry phone.

That's just my experience. No rights, no wrongs. So in some areas they made an effort it would seem. I still say that it was pitiful at best. IMO

[Bobert_123]

Sorry I disagree with almost everything you have said. BlackBerry is great at updating their devices. If carries don't allow the updates through, there is nothing they can do. Blackberry poured a ton of resources into making bb10 great, but it just didn't sell because of no apps. Simple.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

[acovey]

Yes, could be.

Thing is, it doesn't really matter how far along each individual is in wrestling towards an acceptance that BB is done with BB10 because it won't change the reality that BB is done with BB10.

So it's probably best if everyone just hustles along to "acceptance", you'll feel better when you do.

Trust me. He's a Doctor!

Don't take a deep breath and hold it until I reach " acceptance" you will pass out. If the only Blackberry is a Android then NO Blackberry.

[acovey]

No, the diehard BB10 "I'm not dead yet" crowd thinks this way. Everyone else knows the Priv and the upcoming Vienna are BlackBerry phones.

I agree an Android phone is NOT a Blackberry.

[acovey]

Ok so much for implicit context.
I meant that BB10 users who don't want apps and who vehemently mistrust Google are not even in the vicinity of the target audience for the Priv.

BB10 users are not a big enough user base to support BB10.
BB10 fans who wish to avoid google services and apps are a small subset of the group above.

Implying that Priv sales are low because this utterly insignificant group won't buy an full-on android device is a real stretch.

Well I waited four years for a slider to replace my old 9810 slider THEN someone made it an Android phone? I don't buy Android phones so I got a Classic BUT I wanted a BB10 slider. I think the only people that Blackberry is going to attract are the desserters from past years who posted all thouse "sorry I had to buy an Android" threads.

[sorinv]

It's not necessary for you to believe Troy, because I recognise that won't happen. However, perhaps you'll believe BlackBerry?

Along with each ER, or the later analyst call, BB have released the number of phones sold, and the proportion of BBOS:BB10. Those numbers have been posted here several times, and I'm sure a Google search will find them. Early BB10 sales were dreadful, and it took several quarters for BB10 sales to overtake BBOS.

The user base figures have also been published by BB. Conite posted them a day or so back - 10M of each (BBOS & BB10) as of last Summer... I doubt those numbers have increased since, do you?

Almost uniquely, BB declined to publish the OS breakdown of the 700k devices sold last quarter, IMO because it would reveal that the Priv is selling badly, but previous quarter's sales figures are available.

But you carry on regardless in your belief that BB10 was a sales triumph if you want.

I have never said that BB10 was a sales triumph. All I said was that Priv was selling less, therefore a failure because it has not changed the downward trend. I provided the number with the phone sales reported by BBC citing IDC, for 2013 and 2014.
For now you have provided no link to a credible source, just statements.

[sorinv]

Fully agree, if someone wants to forget or not remember the BB10 launch campaign that is fine, but it was real and big. Thor had ordered tons of phones and had planned on making a big splash. Unfortunatly a combination of factors (all Blackberry's in making) made all of marketing useless. No amount of advertising is going to help sell a product that was launched way too late and quickly developed a reputation as a buggy product.

Some here seem to forget all the problems with BB10 1.x. Combined with this was a lot of issues with BES 10. The combination of BB10 and BES10 were suppose to be the future. By the end of summer in 2013 both products were having big problems in the market. By September BlackBerry had a lot of unsold inventory, this is a big problem for a hardware company. BlackBerry was on the hook for all of the unsold inventory. The situation because so bad Heins and the Board had given up and put BlackBerry up for sale. This was a huge PR nightmare - no marketing in the world is going overcome this level of bad press. Combined was several quarters of not just bad, but disastrous results - not just losses, but burning through tons of cash.

The Chairman and CEO were fired and by the end of 2013 Chen was brought in as COB and Temporary CEO. The company was in total crisis mode. The cash burn was so bad that analysts were predicting when BB would run out of cash. Without cash BB could not build phones, no manufacture is going to stock parts and build inventory for a company that can't cover their costs. Chen had two main goals and he had to do them fast. Stop the cash burn and get rid of the old guard inside BB that could not comprehend that BlackBerry was dying. BlackBerry employees had never seemed to have a since of urgency. They took way too long developing BB10 and they seemed to be unwilling to burn the midnight oil to fix BES and BB10. The updates did finally get out, BES 12 is a good product and BB10 came together with ver 2.1. The problem is that in the technology market it is almost impossible to make a good second impression. If BB10 1.0 had been launched in the Spring of 2013 with the quality of version 2.1 I believe BlackBerry would be a different company today. Not strong, but would probably have about 3-5% market share.

Your description of how things happened is correct.
The only problem was that Chen and the new board, after concluding like you that BlackBerry could not execute BB10 on time, decided to abandon even those BlackBerry users who did make the move to BB10.
Chen and the board deluded themselves thinking that half of those very same people who could not develop bB10 faster than 3-4 years, were going to execute spectacularly on yet another OS, be it android.
Chen has not solved any of the technical problems.
He has cut costs and sold for PROFIT (making his books look better) the written off parts which Heins did not sell.
Chen has no technical vision and changed his message several times. Enough to drive everyone away, even me who have stayed with BlackBerry for patriotic reasons and to avoid Google and Apple.

[sorinv]

I went from my Z10 to a Xperia Z5 Compact and I would definitely recommend it. I'd never go back to using a BBRY at their current state. Battery life is better than any phone you will ever have. At the moment it is 4:53 PM, end of my work day and I have 78% battery life. Love the hardware and Sony's slight twist on Android. Pretty much better in every way I'd say. Kinda miss the BBRY virtual keyboard but you can get it for Android just not on this device at the moment.

Sony is an interesting case. I have spent 4 months in Japan at one of their big telecom companies and asked engineers why Japanese people don't buy Sony and they buy Iphones instead. The answer was: Japanese people always want to have the best.
Sony isn't doing well. Not even in Japan.
For the record, I have never had an iphone nor plan to get one. I will stick with my Passport until its battery dies...

[theBanker514]

In such an uncertain business climate and a going concern mindset, BBRY is just trying to survive. Mobile handset business is saturated. Its hard to penetrate the market because of costs. I do think that BBRY is doing their best. I do think we are lucky as cranberry addicts that they still are releasing phones under their brand. I understand that we all feel the sentiment, that we fear losing such a well made device under a brand that we love so much. This is the longest time for me to retain a handset, second one at least. The first one was the bold 9900 I had for two years and regret disposing off up to today. Now its the Passport I think. I've had all iPhones(except for each S model) a number of Nokias, Samsungs, Motorola, but I've disposed of them all. I still have my 8320, Q10. I just hope that sometime they still ask the passport. Even if infant afford it in cash ill finance it because it's truly the best phone I have owned. No need for apps and games. Only a few. And email that's what I need.