[prplhze2000]

BB thought being better at things that weren't most people's priority was good enough, and that they didn't really have to deliver on the things that were most people's priority. That attitude has Mike Lazaridis all over it.

Yup. Why do you think Chen said he was fighting the BlackBerry culture first?

Posted via CB10

[Elephant_Canyon]

I can operate iPhone, windows and android but none of mentioned 3 platform user can operate a bb10 device.

I thought BB10 was supposed to be the most intuitive OS. Apparently, it's not.

[idssteve]

Find and read "On a Clear Day, You can see General Motors", by John DeLorean. Parallels with RIM are stunning.

Building a brand new OS from scratch is a challenging endeavor for tech monsters like Apple & Google. RIM/QNX/BBRY simply didn't have the resources, nor the managerial talent, to pull off an Apple sized re-market, starting from scratch at ground zero. RIM's historic dominance was doomed once the giants stepped into the room.

Their best hope for mere survival, IMO, was to leverage their superior EXPERIENCE. Experience they too efficiently squandered with their too effective "fresh start", IMO.

As stated by The Architect: "There are levels of survival we are willing to accept"... BBRY is now a niche player. A position Harley Davidson found itself in the 70's. Each year of the 70s, many of us questioned if HD could drag their stone age design into the next year. Harley's Willie G nurtured their legacy customer base by preserving the HD experience while leveraging modern technology. They are now a respected niche player. Not Japanese sales numbers, last I heard, but WELL regarded. Certainly an acceptable "level of survival".

Chen still has a chance to market the BlackBerry experience niche. IF he can identify that, anymore. Certainly no rational shot at regaining dominance but possibly an acceptable "level of survival". ??

[DrBoomBotz]

Yup. Why do you think Chen said he was fighting the BlackBerry culture first?

Posted via CB10

Citation please.

[Mr4aces]

I've been here 2 years and it's the same old debate BlackBerry die hards vs the world.

There is only so much John Chen can do. LM and TH put BlackBerry in such a downward spiral. We are just lucky the doors are open. To many wrong turns before JC.

BB10 before JC was garbage, it is only in the past 15 months that it's been acceptable.

I still use my 9900 as my primary phone with the Priv replacing the Classic.

Some of the same people are in denial that told me to move on to BB10 and BBM10. Look back at my threads/posts when people basically said I was full of ****. Well looks who's eating now. Time to get your heads out and look at the sun. Last laugh!

The Priv will save BlackBerry and put a new image on BlackBerry. JC knows to trim the fat and move on.

BlackBerry PRIV w/9900 Classic backup

Old laundry.

BlackBerry PRIV w/9900 Classic backup

[jackcarr]

To say they didn't try is ridiculous. They spent billions of dollars on the BB10 exercise.

Managerial mistakes in the process is simply noise compared to the fact BB10 was late to the party by a few years.

Yup, exactly. They were late to the game with their latest/greatest and it devastated them in the market. Once they released BB10, the boat had already set sail and people actually laughed at their offering and took their late release as a personal offense. Unfortunate because it evolved into something very stable and simple and effective. But at this point, it is what it is. I'll keep buying BB10 phones while they're still available because I like the OS. Many won't though. A percentage will jump ship.

[Mr4aces]

Yup, exactly. They were late to the game with their latest/greatest and it devastated them in the market. Once they released BB10, the boat had already set sail and people actually laughed at their offering and took their late release as a personal offense. Unfortunate because it evolved into something very stable and simple and effective. But at this point, it is what it is. I'll keep buying BB10 phones while they're still available because I like the OS. Many won't though. A percentage will jump ship.

The Classic will be the 9900 of the future.

I still use the 9900 as my work phone

BlackBerry PRIV w/9900 Classic backup

[bobshine]

Well OP, the problem with BlackBerry is that there's not enough users like you! If they did, we wouldn't be having this conversation

Posted via CB10

[will308]

I agree with lots of what the op says blackberrys biggest failing was not acting fast enough they should of had the z1o or something like it out 3 years earlier

[will308]

They tried. Trying isn't enough. Timing counts. Too late.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

yep totally true........................much much too late

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Same way American cars were failed out of US and Toyota gained market! BlackBerry's main focus was US consumers only

Posted via Priv...

BlackBerry's focus has always been enterprise... but they were happy to sell devices to consumers, wherever they were.

Originally it was mainly enterprise that was willing to pay the premium for smartphones. But as consumers became interested in smartphones, other manufactures also became interested in what those consumers wanted in a smartphone. Thus the smartphone evolved from a phone with email capabilities to small information systems with browsers and a wide variety of "apps". Meanwhile BlackBerry was stuck as a great communications devices... but not much else.


Not sure what other markets would have liked to have seen from BlackBerry... that US consumers didn't want too.

[Rendergroup]

They never offered space in the cloud and email account like apple did a long time ago (Icloud space + email account) if you need more space purchase more gigabytes.

They gave up the south american market, no one here uses anymore Blackberries, Iphones are growing their market here, not to talk about android platform as a predominant platform.

[ubizmo]

They never offered space in the cloud and email account like apple did a long time ago (Icloud space + email account) if you need more space purchase more gigabytes.

Before BB10 launched, I expected that they would offer something like this. I thought they'd pair the OS with a cloud service along the lines you've described. BBOS users would be able to keep their BB email addresses (with or without the carrier tag), and there would be a modest cloud allocation, which you could pay to expand. It just seemed to make sense, to promote the whole security image: Use BlackBerry's secure email, secure cloud, and so on. But they didn't do it. I haven't thought much about that since then, until you just brought it up, but I remember being surprised and disappointed at the time.

[chockster]

There has been a whole lot of talk in this thread about what could of, what should of been done? Yet many of us refuse to put down our BB's. I absolutely love BB10, do I wish it could do more and run more apps, absolutely! I'm not sure there is an OS out there where its users are 100% satisfied with its performance, anything can always be improved upon. My question is, is BB10 really destined for the OS graveyard? Or should it be kept alive as a niche within a niche, if you will, within BlackBerry? Why not? seems most, if not all carriers are getting out of the 2-year contracts anyways. They just want you to switch to their company regardless of where you get the phone or if you bring your own. The window of opportunity will come back around....being the optimist that I am.

[DrBoomBotz]

My question is, is BB10 really destined for the OS graveyard?

Everything dies, just BB10 is probably going to do it soonish.

Or should it be kept alive as a niche within a niche, if you will, within BlackBerry? Why not?

Because it costs money to maintain.

[Alberto8]

What really did them in was the high number of returns of the Z10 due to really bad beta software (10.0). BB10 did not get good until 10.2. Then Thorsten panicked and tried to sell the company in the summer. The rest is history. They messed up the launch really badly. when the z10 came out, there were many apps in the store. I rememember I picked one out at the AT&T store in February, just after launch. I almost returned it for it kept rebooting itself and freezing. It was the buggy OS. Finally in the summer we got 10.1 and things got a lot better. Once I got 10.2 The phone really shined. By that time, the carriers had refused to carry any bb phones. Deal was done. Stupid Thorsten.

[marwat]

I'm not naive to believe Google would play ball. With all these supposed security enhancements to Android, one would think there's a quid pro quo where BlackBerry secures Android, and in return Google would allow BlackBerry to insert easier Google Play Store access into a future version of BlackBerry 10. Really, hopefully BlackBerry has planned for the Priv and Vienna to bring some cash infusion to allow more BB10 development so that BlackBerry can offer both Android and BB10 lines of smartphones.

Posted via CB10 on my VZW 100-3 Z30.

it's not like the guys sitting in google don't know how to make their OS secure at all, their is a triangular relation between security, functionality and ease of use. andriod is committed to the latter.

[Maxxberry]

It boggles my mind how iOS and Android got to any level of popularity. After using 2 iPhones (including latest), two samsungs (including latest) and many many Blackberries (including passport, my fav) I have found that iOS and Android are SEVERELY (as in major severely) lacking in the user experience and ease of use.

BBOS, and then BB10, have such major major superior UI experiences and integrations. The other OS’s just don’t cut it for productivity, but the world has no clue because Blackberry (RIM) didn’t do ANY main stream marketing. What marketing can be called out simply….sucked.

BB10 being late to the competition party was a huge factor, but let’s not kid ourselves. If BB had a better focused marketing campaign for all their BB10 phones, then they could have had a chance. Why? Because with BB phones STILL today being used as the iconic go to image in modern TV shows means BB always had the world in their hands….. they just didn’t tell anyone.

[BlackberryFan777]

BlackBerry loses money on every BB10 phone they sell. A small manufacturer can not afford their own OS.

Posted via CB10

Yes, but that's because Chen abandoned BB10 some time ago. Thor sold 5 million Z10s. Chen is just trying to sell 5 million phones *per year*. With this failed CEO, BlackBerry cannot afford BB10, but if the board had hired someone else, we might still have a platform of our own.

[JeepBB]

It boggles my mind how iOS and Android got to any level of popularity. After using 2 iPhones (including latest), two samsungs (including latest) and many many Blackberries (including passport, my fav) I have found that iOS and Android are SEVERELY (as in major severely) lacking in the user experience and ease of use.

BBOS, and then BB10, have such major major superior UI experiences and integrations. The other OS�s just don�t cut it for productivity, but the world has no clue because Blackberry (RIM) didn�t do ANY main stream marketing. What marketing can be called out simply�.sucked.

BB10 being late to the competition party was a huge factor, but let�s not kid ourselves. If BB had a better focused marketing campaign for all their BB10 phones, then they could have had a chance. Why? Because with BB phones STILL today being used as the iconic go to image in modern TV shows means BB always had the world in their hands�.. they just didn�t tell anyone.

Which is your opinion, which is obviously yours to give.

However, you are clearly not representative of the vast majority of smartphone users. If you were, Android and iOS wouldn't own 95% of the market, and BB wouldn't have abandoned BB10 in favour of Android. As to the myth that it's not possible to be productive using any other OS... well, again, that's your opinion and most independent observers would accept that the world seems to be getting along reasonably productively without BB10.

I realise that many here on CB will refuse to accept it, but the failure of BB10 is not due to poor marketing and because nobody knew about it. Here in the UK, the Z10 and Q10 were heavily advertised and promoted by carriers, favourably reviewed by major newspapers and tech-journals, and generally well-publicised. Nobody even vaguely interested in phones could have been unaware that BB had a new OS and a new set of phones.

The sad truth is that despite all that promotion and marketing BB10 simply didn't appeal to enough people to make it viable. Without the Apps people wanted it wasn't ever going to be a success, and it wasn't.

[bimmin]

iPhone users can't use their phones either. I swear everytime I have someone elses iPhone in my hand when I double click the front button they have a 100 applications running because they didn't know how to close them.

[Jerry A]

iPhone users can't use their phones either. I swear everytime I have someone elses iPhone in my hand when I double click the front button they have a 100 applications running because they didn't know how to close them.

They don't need to close them.

[Gazza12]

The only "mistake" that actually mattered was being caught at the wrong stage of a product life cycle when the iPhone and Android devices came out. BBOS was not technically capable of responding, and they waited too long to start fresh. Like I said, the rest is just noise.

That is an understatement..... remember the iPhone "killers" and the potentially wonderful but hopeless Playbook? All released before they were ready, producing poor reviews everywhere. I just hope the point of difference with PKB is enough to keep them making handsets. If they go all Android its the only thing I'm interested in. God I love my Passport.

[TgeekB]

iPhone users can't use their phones either. I swear everytime I have someone elses iPhone in my hand when I double click the front button they have a 100 applications running because they didn't know how to close them.

That's because it's unnecessary.

[Gazza12]

Read the book. It was a very dysfunctional organization that had no clue as to how to execute or meet deadlines. It didn't know how to operate at a basic level.


Chen had to deal with all that before he could get around to cranking out a competitive phone.

Posted via CB10

Yes and I was surprised that every product had its own building,set of staff and full infrastructure instead of one lean team delivering on maybe 2 products. So bloated. No wonder JC had to put the broom through.