08-27-13 09:30 PM
53 123
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  1. southlander's Avatar
    Why do you hope they don't add it? Geez, are you that scared of having options? Are you so accustomed to having BlackBerry dictate how you use your BlackBerry 10 device that the thought of having the option to accomplish a task in more than one way scares you?
    Because its not elegant to circumvent the central design feature of the OS.

    That said I would not be opposed to having it default OFF but allow icons to be added selectively or removed selectively.

    Z10STL100-4/10.2.0.1047
    08-26-13 11:14 PM
  2. southlander's Avatar
    You have separate email accounts. You just slide to the left as opposed to tapping an icon to get to them.

    Posted via CB10
    Right. Exactly.

    Z10STL100-4/10.2.0.1047
    08-26-13 11:15 PM
  3. heymaggie's Avatar
    This has always struck me as one of those "features" that sounds good but is not as compelling when put into practice.
    08-26-13 11:15 PM
  4. southlander's Avatar
    This has always struck me as one of those "features" that sounds good but is not as compelling when put into practice.
    Which? The hub or the separate icons?

    Z10STL100-4/10.2.0.1047
    08-26-13 11:20 PM
  5. Saiga's Avatar
    Because its not elegant to circumvent the central design feature of the OS.

    That said I would not be opposed to having it default OFF but allow icons to be added selectively or removed selectively.

    Z10STL100-4/10.2.0.1047
    So in your opinion, pretty much every single BlackBerry smartphone made hasn't been elegant? It has always been that way until BlackBerry 10 came out yet I can't recall seeing anyone complaining about having the option back then.
    08-26-13 11:22 PM
  6. southlander's Avatar
    So in your opinion, pretty much every single BlackBerry smartphone made hasn't been elegant? It has always been that way until BlackBerry 10 came out yet I can't recall seeing anyone complaining about having the option back then.
    Not what I said. BBOS was designed a certain way within a certain paradigm. And yes in its time and way was elegant. BlackBerry 10 is different and more elegant in my opinion when looking at modern smartphones.

    Heck BlackBerry probably will cave with the trouble they are in if that is what they think they'll need to do to mollify traditional users.

    I personally like BlackBerry 10 the way it is. Hub. Peek. If I want to look at just outlook I select outlook in the hub. To me that is no harder than selecting a specific icon on a screen.

    Z10STL100-4/10.2.0.1047
    grover5 likes this.
    08-26-13 11:29 PM
  7. Saiga's Avatar
    Not what I said. BBOS was designed a certain way within a certain paradigm. And yes in its time and way was elegant. BlackBerry 10 is different and more elegant in my opinion when looking at modern smartphones.

    Heck BlackBerry probably will cave with the trouble they are in if that is what they think they'll need to do to mollify traditional users.

    I personally like BlackBerry 10 the way it is. Hub. Peek. If I want to look at just outlook I select outlook in the hub. To me that is no harder than selecting a specific icon on a screen.

    Z10STL100-4/10.2.0.1047
    So if BlackBerry 10 had launched with the option, just like every other version of the BlackBerry smartphone OS, it would be elegant? I honestly think they would have launched with individual account icons if they could have. Them missing probably isn't by design. It is probably more to do with them needing to launch the phone when it wasn't ready. After all, every version of BlackBerry 10 has had a completely redundant SMS icon. Why is it we get a icon for SMS when it is in the Hub but no icon for individual email accounts?

    Bottom line, it is one less option. I and others want the option to add individual icons. Notice, I said option. As in no one would be forced into using them. Just like individual account icons were always optional in the past. Having the Hub is great, having the Hub plus the option to add individual account icons would be even better.

    The fact that people actually argue for and want less options in BlackBerry 10 is truly puzzling.
    08-26-13 11:45 PM
  8. pooger's Avatar
    To this I say that her argument is a little contradictory. Doesn't wanna go backwards but then again doesn't like the new interface. Well. Kind of have to choose. Help her see the benefits and the gestures and see if it'll turn her around. My grandmother has a Q10 and is coming from a basic phone. She loves it and honestly hadn't had to bug me about how to use it that much. In sure your wife will adjust

    Posted via CB10
    She understands why people think it's contradictory. She just doesn't think that forcing people to a unified messaging should be the future.

    Posted via CB10
    08-27-13 12:27 AM
  9. pooger's Avatar
    You can't get separate icons, but they will be separate in the hub menu. Slide the lower left hub icon to the right and you'll see a list of the different accounts. Each will have notifications when there are messages.
    Yeah she knows about that but for whatever reason she is still annoyed by it. She is used to the icon selection method and finds it more intuitive because that's what she's used to. She's surprised that they forced everyone to use the hub instead of being allowed to make icons for her email inboxes.

    Posted via CB10
    08-27-13 12:30 AM
  10. KermEd's Avatar
    I have to say though. I totally do understand where she is coming from.

    I have an email address I use for my cameras at home. When motion activated, it recieves a jpg.

    If I add it to my device. No matter what I do. It will be in the hub and display the notifications icon.

    In this case, I get 70/day, and the view is only for when I want to check on the cameras at a specific time. So I don't need notifications or to have it in the hub.

    To her point, sometimes I just don't want it in there . Now in my case, I love bbry,so whatever it's an icon. But it could drive some people nuts

    Posted via CB from my LE
    Thunderbuck likes this.
    08-27-13 07:39 AM
  11. southlander's Avatar
    So if BlackBerry 10 had launched with the option, just like every other version of the BlackBerry smartphone OS, it would be elegant? I honestly think they would have launched with individual account icons if they could have. Them missing probably isn't by design. It is probably more to do with them needing to launch the phone when it wasn't ready. After all, every version of BlackBerry 10 has had a completely redundant SMS icon. Why is it we get a icon for SMS when it is in the Hub but no icon for individual email accounts?

    Bottom line, it is one less option. I and others want the option to add individual icons. Notice, I said option. As in no one would be forced into using them. Just like individual account icons were always optional in the past. Having the Hub is great, having the Hub plus the option to add individual account icons would be even better.

    The fact that people actually argue for and want less options in BlackBerry 10 is truly puzzling.
    There are arguments against options. For example in windows there are usually lots more ways to do tasks than in the Mac OS X. Microsoft prefers more options and Apple prefers to design things using the ONE BEST method. The Apple thinking is it is more consistent and easier for people to learn if things all work one consistent way from machine to machine.

    I can see BlackBerry thinking -- why not have both the hub and icons. And then someone internally making the obvious argument that it will confuse some new users. And it will lead to folks not learning the gestures right off the bat.

    And since Cascades is designed with the same basic gestures in mind it would also hinder folks learning to use apps that are written in Cascades.

    But alas it all is sort of falling apart for them. So just like Microsoft had to give in to its user base with Windows 8 and add that start button, BlackBerry might have to cave.

    Yes I think if BlackBerry 10 had icons and the hub BY DEFAULT it would be redundant and not elegant.

    However as I said in another reply I am not against them building in an OFF by default option to add icons for each account.

    Z10STL100-4/10.2.0.1047
    08-27-13 03:52 PM
  12. bobauckland's Avatar
    I used to love switching between accounts on my BB7 device.
    Copying some text from one email in one inbox to another email in another inbox or having multiple separate emails in separate inboxes open at the same time was really awesome, and despite it being nice to have the HUB, I do wish they took a BB7 approach, one unified inbox and Hub, but options to open separate email accounts as active frames for when working with multiple emails and accounts at the same time.
    08-27-13 04:05 PM
  13. Saiga's Avatar
    There are arguments against options. For example in windows there are usually lots more ways to do tasks than in the Mac OS X. Microsoft prefers more options and Apple prefers to design things using the ONE BEST method. The Apple thinking is it is more consistent and easier for people to learn if things all work one consistent way from machine to machine.

    I can see BlackBerry thinking -- why not have both the hub and icons. And then someone internally making the obvious argument that it will confuse some new users. And it will lead to folks not learning the gestures right off the bat.

    And since Cascades is designed with the same basic gestures in mind it would also hinder folks learning to use apps that are written in Cascades.

    But alas it all is sort of falling apart for them. So just like Microsoft had to give in to its user base with Windows 8 and add that start button, BlackBerry might have to cave.

    Yes I think if BlackBerry 10 had icons and the hub BY DEFAULT it would be redundant and not elegant.

    However as I said in another reply I am not against them building in an OFF by default option to add icons for each account.

    Z10STL100-4/10.2.0.1047
    You just described the exact reason why I don't use a Mac or iOS. Apple dictates how you use their devices. I'm not a simpleton, I like having options. Want to add ringtones or music to your iPhone? Well Apple has decided that you have to use iTunes for that. Who cares if every smartphone on the planet except the iPhone can download a rintone from a website or a email. Apple decided that that task should require iTunes and a PC.

    It comes down to users tastes I geuss. Some people may like not having options, but I personally love having them.

    Your second paragraph seems to ignore the obvious issue with your point. If BlackBerry wanted to avoid confusion, why has every single consumer release of the BlackBerry 10 operating system included a SMS icon? Every single one of them has had that icon from the very beginning.

    Shouldn't that icon be confusing the crap out of new BlackBerry 10 users across the globe right now? Why have a SMS icon but no option at all to add individual email account icons? Heck, if BlackBerry wanted BB10 to be elegant and simple to use, than why would they add a icon for the Hub?

    The Hub and SMS icons kinda lead me to believe that the missing email account icons aren't by design. Or are you gonna tell me that BlackBerry caved to the demands of the masses and added a SMS icon before BB10 devices were even released?

    The sad part is, the way BlackBerry 10 is now isn't even consistent. We have a Hub and SMS icon that aren't needed by some, but don't have individual email account icons. Wouldn't you agree that if we have a icon for SMS, which BB10 has always had, we should have icons for email accounts?

    Wouldnt having the option be more consistent since the SMS and Hub icons are already there?





    Typed on my Dev Alpha C, Posted Via CB10
    08-27-13 04:29 PM
  14. bobauckland's Avatar
    You just described the exact reason why I don't use a Mac or iOS. Apple dictates how you use their devices. I'm not a simpleton, I like having options. Want to add ringtones or music to your iPhone? Well Apple has decided that you have to use iTunes for that. Who cares if every smartphone on the planet except the iPhone can download a rintone from a website or a email. Apple decided that that task should require iTunes and a PC.

    It comes down to users tastes I geuss. Some people may like not having options, but I personally love having them.

    Your second paragraph seems to ignore the obvious issue with your point. If BlackBerry wanted to avoid confusion, why has every single consumer release of the BlackBerry 10 operating system included a SMS icon? Every single one of them has had that icon from the very beginning.

    Shouldn't that icon be confusing the crap out of new BlackBerry 10 users across the globe right now? Why have a SMS icon but no option at all to add individual email account icons? Heck, if BlackBerry wanted BB10 to be elegant and simple to use, than why would they add a icon for the Hub?

    The Hub and SMS icons kinda lead me to believe that the missing email account icons aren't by design. Or are you gonna tell me that BlackBerry caved to the demands of the masses and added a SMS icon before BB10 devices were even released?

    The sad part is, the way BlackBerry 10 is now isn't even consistent. We have a Hub and SMS icon that aren't needed by some, but don't have individual email account icons. Wouldn't you agree that if we have a icon for SMS, which BB10 has always had, we should have icons for email accounts?

    Wouldnt having the option be more consistent since the SMS and Hub icons are already there?





    Typed on my Dev Alpha C, Posted Via CB10
    Not just the icons. Surely it makes sense for the icon to lead to a separate app opening, not just chucking you into the Hub.
    Then you can work with, for example, a text and an email at the same time.
    Instead of having to pick just one.
    08-27-13 04:35 PM
  15. Saiga's Avatar
    Not just the icons. Surely it makes sense for the icon to lead to a separate app opening, not just chucking you into the Hub.
    Then you can work with, for example, a text and an email at the same time.
    Instead of having to pick just one.
    And the SMS/Hub icon aren't even optional. You can't delete them. The best you can do is shove them in the junk folder so you don't have to look at them anymore.

    All of the old BlackBerry smartphones had the option to add a icon at account creation and of course you could also hide any of the icons as needed.

    Can't believe anyone honestly thinks that BB10 is an upgrade in this regard over the legacy OS. It isn't an upgrade and it isn't by design. BB10 just isn't finished yet.

    Typed on my Dev Alpha C, Posted Via CB10
    08-27-13 04:44 PM
  16. southlander's Avatar
    And the SMS/Hub icon aren't even optional. You can't delete them. The best you can do is shove them in the junk folder so you don't have to look at them anymore.

    All of the old BlackBerry smartphones had the option to add a icon at account creation and of course you could also hide any of the icons as needed.

    Can't believe anyone honestly thinks that BB10 is an upgrade in this regard over the legacy OS. It isn't an upgrade and it isn't by design. BB10 just isn't finished yet.

    Typed on my Dev Alpha C, Posted Via CB10
    The extra SMS icon is a result of pressure from the carriers. It was not BlackBerry s choice.

    Z10STL100-4/10.2.0.1047
    08-27-13 04:57 PM
  17. Saiga's Avatar
    The extra SMS icon is a result of pressure from the carriers. It was not BlackBerry s choice.

    Z10STL100-4/10.2.0.1047
    Do you have a source for that that isn't speculation?

    Crazy that even factory unlocked BlackBerry 10 devices, and developer devices that aren't for sell are subjected to the will of carriers.

    I have three factory unlocked, WiFi only, BlackBerry 10 developer devices and all 3 have a SMS icon just because the carriers said so? Man, if that is true, BlackBerry needs to grow a pair.

    Typed on my Dev Alpha C, Posted Via CB10
    08-27-13 05:01 PM
  18. southlander's Avatar
    You just described the exact reason why I don't use a Mac or iOS. Apple dictates how you use their devices. I'm not a simpleton, I like having options. Want to add ringtones or music to your iPhone? Well Apple has decided that you have to use iTunes for that. Who cares if every smartphone on the planet except the iPhone can download a rintone from a website or a email. Apple decided that that task should require iTunes and a PC.

    It comes down to users tastes I geuss. Some people may like not having options, but I personally love having them.

    Your second paragraph seems to ignore the obvious issue with your point. If BlackBerry wanted to avoid confusion, why has every single consumer release of the BlackBerry 10 operating system included a SMS icon? Every single one of them has had that icon from the very beginning.

    Shouldn't that icon be confusing the crap out of new BlackBerry 10 users across the globe right now? Why have a SMS icon but no option at all to add individual email account icons? Heck, if BlackBerry wanted BB10 to be elegant and simple to use, than why would they add a icon for the Hub?

    The Hub and SMS icons kinda lead me to believe that the missing email account icons aren't by design. Or are you gonna tell me that BlackBerry caved to the demands of the masses and added a SMS icon before BB10 devices were even released?

    The sad part is, the way BlackBerry 10 is now isn't even consistent. We have a Hub and SMS icon that aren't needed by some, but don't have individual email account icons. Wouldn't you agree that if we have a icon for SMS, which BB10 has always had, we should have icons for email accounts?

    Wouldnt having the option be more consistent since the SMS and Hub icons are already there?





    Typed on my Dev Alpha C, Posted Via CB10
    Whatever apple is doing it appears to be working out for them. I don't use macs either nor do I use any apple products. Yet I have heard a few friends and family that bought iphones go on and on about how simple it is to use. In fact at least one of them replaced her windows laptop with a Mac laptop because she likes her iPhone. Halo effect.

    Z10STL100-4/10.2.0.1047
    08-27-13 05:04 PM
  19. southlander's Avatar
    Do you have a source for that that isn't speculation?

    Crazy that even factory unlocked BlackBerry 10 devices, and developer devices that aren't for sell are subjected to the will of carriers.

    I have three factory unlocked, WiFi only, BlackBerry 10 developer devices and all 3 have a SMS icon just because the carriers said so? Man, if that is true, BlackBerry needs to grow a pair.

    Typed on my Dev Alpha C, Posted Via CB10
    It was mentioned on the crackberry blog around the time of BlackBerry 10's release. Perhaps in a podcast. And I am pretty sure it was speculation. Speculation that makes perfect sense. Why else would there be a redundant icon for SMS? In fact a redundant icon that simply leads one to the hub. Makes no sense unless you think about the fact that pretty much everyone uses SMS right off the bat and care greatly about it. Carriers have an interest in providing what is expected in that case.

    Z10STL100-4/10.2.0.1047
    Last edited by southlander; 08-27-13 at 05:19 PM.
    08-27-13 05:09 PM
  20. Saiga's Avatar
    It was mentioned on the crackberry blog around the time of BlackBerry 10's release. Perhaps in a podcast. And I am pretty sure it was speculation. Speculation that makes perfect sense. Why else would there be a redundant icon for SMS?

    Z10STL100-4/10.2.0.1047
    Exactly. It has all been speculation that carriers forced them to do it.

    Does it make sense that my Limited Edition BlackBerry Z10, Dev Alpha B and C all have that icon just because a carrier said so? My Dev Alpha A also had that icon at one point, but I traded it in for the LE.

    These phones don't even have a SIM card in them. In otherwords, they can't even use SMS, yet they all have the SMS icon. Seems strange that the carriers have so much controll over developer phones that aren't on their network and that they don't even sell.

    It makes more sense to me that the SMS icon was BlackBerry's idea. The speculation that suggests otherwise leaves to many unanswered questions.

    For example, AT&T wanted BlackBerry to prevent users from modifying the APN settings in BB10. BlackBerry agreed. So if I put a AT&T sim card in my BB10 phone, the phone gets AT&T branding, and apps and I can't edit the APN. But that isn't the case for all carriers. Some carriers will allow you to edit the APN in BB10.

    So why is it that every single consumer version of BlackBerry 10 has had that SMS icon?

    Why didn't BlackBerry handle the carrier demands on a case by case basis like they handled the carriers demands with APN settings?

    Inserting a sim card causes carrier app icons to appear. So why not have that SMS icon appear only after a sim from a carrier that wanted the icon is inserted?

    See, those are really good questions aren't they?



    Typed on my Dev Alpha C, Posted Via CB10
    laketrout73 likes this.
    08-27-13 05:31 PM
  21. johnmoon's Avatar
    I don't find this hub useful for me at all (yes you can call me weird)
    I just wish they give me an option to hide those columns that I will never use
    (Eg. Hub, pin, bbm)
    And let me choose to order which account to keep on top to bottom

    I really do miss having 'hide' icon option and having a separate email short cut as well

    Call me an old fashion but whatever worked for me is still working for me
    Wish they kept that as an option
    08-27-13 05:32 PM
  22. texn884's Avatar
    Yes my 9930 has so many cool old school options and yes it does have the hub its the messages Icon.
    To be able to move and hide icons and use the track pad and so many ways to customize the phone. I would think there are some apps going to come like Advanced OS & LED where you can do so much to the options in the phone with one app

    Im going to get the Q10 in December and I hope by then 10.2 will be out and running so many cool options the world will fall in Love with BB again and have everyone going where did BB come from!
    08-27-13 05:59 PM
  23. southlander's Avatar
    Exactly. It has all been speculation that carriers forced them to do it.

    Does it make sense that my Limited Edition BlackBerry Z10, Dev Alpha B and C all have that icon just because a carrier said so? My Dev Alpha A also had that icon at one point, but I traded it in for the LE.

    These phones don't even have a SIM card in them. In otherwords, they can't even use SMS, yet they all have the SMS icon. Seems strange that the carriers have so much controll over developer phones that aren't on their network and that they don't even sell.

    It makes more sense to me that the SMS icon was BlackBerry's idea. The speculation that suggests otherwise leaves to many unanswered questions.

    For example, AT&T wanted BlackBerry to prevent users from modifying the APN settings in BB10. BlackBerry agreed. So if I put a AT&T sim card in my BB10 phone, the phone gets AT&T branding, and apps and I can't edit the APN. But that isn't the case for all carriers. Some carriers will allow you to edit the APN in BB10.

    So why is it that every single consumer version of BlackBerry 10 has had that SMS icon?

    Why didn't BlackBerry handle the carrier demands on a case by case basis like they handled the carriers demands with APN settings?

    Inserting a sim card causes carrier app icons to appear. So why not have that SMS icon appear only after a sim from a carrier that wanted the icon is inserted?

    See, those are really good questions aren't they?



    Typed on my Dev Alpha C, Posted Via CB10
    Whether or not it was the carriers or not I really do not care. At all. It is not needed. And it does not change the fact that BB10 was designed around the Hub, not icons.

    Yes perhaps it is not finished as someone else posted. Big surprise there huh?

    So BB10 might add something at some point to make you all happy. Great. Good for ya. I like it as is. You don't. Glad that's settled.
    08-27-13 07:00 PM
  24. Saiga's Avatar
    Whether or not it was the carriers or not I really do not care. At all. It is not needed. And it does not change the fact that BB10 was designed around the Hub, not icons.
    How can we say BlackBerry 10 was designed around the Hub and not icons when BB10 has always had a SMS icon and recently received a Hub icon? Did the carrier mafia force BlackBerry to add the Hub icon as well?

    I think those two icons kinda show that BlackBerry 10 was designed to use both, just like BlackBerry legacy devices have always made use of both methods.

    At the end of the day, BlackBerry should strive to make as many people happy as possible and I can't see how having the option to add individual email account icons would make a large portion of BlackBerry 10 users unhappy.

    Typed on my Dev Alpha C, Posted Via CB10
    08-27-13 07:32 PM
  25. qbnkelt's Avatar
    You have separate email accounts. You just slide to the left as opposed to tapping an icon to get to them.


    Thank you.

    I was wondering if I was missing something.

    Posted via CB10


    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    08-27-13 07:36 PM
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