02-02-14 10:40 PM
31 12
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  1. zten's Avatar
    Why should developers be encouraged any longer to make bb10 apps when they can just make an android app which will work for both platforms.

    What a great way to kill off a brand, suffocate it's app development (which wasn't that strong to begin with), google is very smart no wonder they agreed to allow android run time environment on blackberry.

    Blackberry 10 committed a lot of resources to developers last year, google basically got all the blackberry developers for free.

    Posted via CB10
    02-01-14 12:24 PM
  2. thurask's Avatar
    02-01-14 12:29 PM
  3. silversmith75's Avatar
    hopefully it will make dev see how popular blackberry is and want to make native apps....
    02-01-14 12:30 PM
  4. early2bed's Avatar
    hopefully it will make dev see how popular blackberry is and want to make native apps....
    Because they are using so many Android apps?

    Any developer (or company who hires developers) who wanted to capture the BB10-using market (less than 1 percent) is almost certainly going to devote their resources to making their Android version better and more compatible with BB10 devices using the Android runtime. It just makes sense to focus on two platforms and maybe Windows Mobile if you really want to cover the entire smartphone market.
    propeller10 likes this.
    02-01-14 01:08 PM
  5. johnnyuk's Avatar
    You could look at BB10's Android runtime as one step closer to the holy grail of app compatibility between mobile device platforms.

    Wouldn't it be great if any app for any mobile device could run on any other mobile device regardless of the OS? It'll never happen across the board though as there's too much money to be made by tricking people in to proprietary walled gardens with eye candy and promises of 'coolness' (Apple).



    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 / 10.2.1.1925 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2
    BergerKing and Mecca EL like this.
    02-01-14 01:23 PM
  6. zten's Avatar
    You could look at BB10's Android runtime as one step closer to the holy grail of app compatibility between mobile device platforms.

    Wouldn't it be great if any app for any mobile device could run on any other mobile device regardless of the OS? It'll never happen across the board though as there's too much money to be made by tricking people in to proprietary walled gardens with eye candy and promises of 'coolness' (Apple).



    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 / 10.2.1.1925 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2
    App compatibility? You mean android running on other platforms? Because surely bb10 app development will come to a stall.

    Posted via CB10
    02-01-14 01:27 PM
  7. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    It's very obvious that while the Android runtime helps BB users (and therefore BB) in the short run, it poisons long-term BB development. Sure, a few BB loyalists will still develop for BB, but your average company, or the next "must-have" app's company, is going to look at marketshare and say "iOS and Android only", and when they eventually look into WinPhone and BB, they'll find out that BB users already use their Android app, and will cross BB off the list as "done." Most companies don't have, or can't justify, the resources to write a native app to target a sub-1% marketshare, ESPECIALLY when that market is already being served by their Android app.

    I suspect most BB Cascades apps will be written by small, independent companies with 1-5 developers, not counting custom enterprise apps developed under contract for that large corporation - nothing that is open-market.
    JeepBB and Drew808 like this.
    02-01-14 01:30 PM
  8. johnnyuk's Avatar
    App compatibility? You mean android running on other platforms? Because surely bb10 app development will come to a stall.

    Posted via CB10
    I didn't mean Android specifically, but if it's going to happen then market forces will dictate that the most widespread and open platform out there will become the defacto standard.

    The Dalvik VM could run on any just about any OS. It won't just be BB10 using it this year, was it Sailfish or the Mozilla phone that is also going down that route for extra app compatibility?

    But I agree it can only have a negative effect on native BB10 development if it gets any easier to download Android apps such as BlackBerry bundling 3rd party app store apps like 1Mobile with the OS, that would kill BB World off!

    That's why they aren't doing any bundling so far and haven't officially announced any increased Android app compatibility with 10.2.1 so that those who are savvy enough to be in the know can go and get their apps, but those who aren't can continue to feed the native developer community through BB World.

    I think the Dalvik VM was something of a contingency plan for BB10. If sales turned out to be poor and the developer community didn't to grow to a certain size and include the key 'big name' apps that consumers want then Plan B was to unleash the Android VM beast in 2014 and see what happens. We are there now, so let's see what happens.

    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 / 10.2.1.1925 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2
    web99, Mecca EL and Icarus3000 like this.
    02-01-14 04:33 PM
  9. neo158's Avatar
    If you'll allow me I would like to add my perspective on this subject as a Windows Phone user?
    02-01-14 05:29 PM
  10. johnnyuk's Avatar
    If you'll allow me I would like to add my perspective on this subject as a Windows Phone user?
    Go for it, would you like access more apps via the Android VM route on Windows Phone?

    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 / 10.2.1.1925 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2
    02-01-14 05:31 PM
  11. neo158's Avatar
    Go for it, would you like access more apps via the Android VM route on Windows Phone?

    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 / 10.2.1.1925 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2
    I do feel that in the long term, being able to sideload Android apps will harm the BB10 ecosystem. Most developers, as said above, will cross BB off as done by using the Android app.

    The other reason I say this is because when I was looking to move from Android I did look at the Z10, a very nice device if I may say so, but I chose to go back to Windows Phone for two reasons, when I checked AppWorld on the store device I only found two of the many apps I had installed on my current device, a Galaxy Nexus, and the other is that there was a distinct lack of information on sideloading Android apps which I only discovered by reading this website and others.

    To answer your question though I think the Windows Phone ecosystem is flourishing, at the end of 2013 we had a lot of big name apps and games appearing with even more of them announced for 2014. So, do I think having access to Android apps via a VM on WP is a good idea? Not really, personally I would rather wait for the native apps, 3rd party or official, to appear. We have fantastic developers like Rudy Huyn who have created a lot of 3rd party apps, many of which have forced the hand of the developers of the official apps to release a WP version.
    02-01-14 05:47 PM
  12. johnnyuk's Avatar
    I do feel that in the long term, being able to sideload Android apps will harm the BB10 ecosystem. Most developers, as said above, will cross BB off as done by using the Android app.
    For BB10, which as a platform hasn't seen the growth that Windows Phone has seen in the last 12 months, the situation is rather different.

    It's more a case of it being better that an app developer crosses BlackBerry off as done by using their Android app than crossing BlackBerry off as in 'not gonna bother' because the platform is too small or worse BlackBerry the company is gone.

    That's the harsh reality of where BB10 is today with its app ecosystem. I wish it were different but it is what it is. Android apps right now are breathing life back in to a platform teetering on the brink of existence.


    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 / 10.2.1.1925 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2
    Last edited by johnnyuk; 02-02-14 at 12:52 AM.
    neo158, Icarus3000, JeepBB and 1 others like this.
    02-01-14 06:31 PM
  13. Skyforever's Avatar
    Why should developers be encouraged any longer to make bb10 apps when they can just make an android app which will work for both platforms.

    What a great way to kill off a brand, suffocate it's app development (which wasn't that strong to begin with), google is very smart no wonder they agreed to allow android run time environment on blackberry.

    Blackberry 10 committed a lot of resources to developers last year, google basically got all the blackberry developers for free.

    Posted via CB10
    No one knows for sure what is going to happen in the future, but whatever happens, I feel confident BlackBerry is going to be part of it. Right now BlackBerry is rolling with the punches by adapting many of the androids apps as part of its new O.S. as optional. Yes there is always a possibility that BlackBerry is going to get swallowed up in the mix somehow, someday, but there is also the possibility that these growing/learning pains will eventually help make BlackBerry that much more appealing to the masses. Stronger, and Better. BlackBerry is already BEST for privacy, that has never changed, and I don't believe that it will. The new O.S. is very good, and I believe as it continues to get better people from other platforms in time will flock to BlackBerry as a preferred platform more often, than less. We do know for sure despite not having been vastly accepted BlackBerry BB10 technology is awesome already in several ways which have been mentioned many times on this site. We can agree that one must adapt quickly to changes if one is going to survive the mobile technological playground. I feel BlackBerry awareness is doing this. One may be suspicious of the tactics, but I can't think of a better adjustment on the part of BlackBerry's continued involvement in this matter, at this time. This coming from behind is not an easy task, but I believe that BlackBerry has positioned itself to ride the tide, and that BlackBerry could conceivably still become in the future a leader of this "mobile computer" industry. It is but a stepping stone to something greater and better. Who will win? How will it be done? Those are some of the questions that one may ask, but for me, it just feels good to have a BlackBerry in my hand I'm excited about, and I love how my BlackBerry functions beautifully as part of my very own mobile computing adventure.
    Mecca EL likes this.
    02-01-14 07:03 PM
  14. SDTRMG's Avatar
    It can harm BlackBerry in the long run, or help them the truth is only time will tell. If (big IF) they make the Android run-time a little more compatible it would help, I have many android apps that run perfect on my z30 and a couple not so much.

    I think (my opinion) there plan is to open up BlackBerry World and allow direct .apk submission to make it less of a hassle for developers.

    This could be good and bad for many reasons. BlackBerry World could get a lot of android apps having a good mix with native (350-500,000) over time, which users would generally benefit from, some apps would have a price, which BlackBerry would directly profit from. At the same time will the developers take the time to fix any problems in there app, will they offer support, upgrades etc.

    Only time will tell.

    Z30 - The Final Destination - Winnipeg Mb Clothing|Footwear|Headwear|Headshop|Tobacconist|Ta ttoos
    02-01-14 09:39 PM
  15. webber27's Avatar
    App compatibility? You mean android running on other platforms? Because surely bb10 app development will come to a stall.

    Posted via CB10
    It's already at a stall. Sure a few independent developers make random BB apps but when's the last time a big name has released their app for BB, or even announced plans to one day do so? How long should we sit and hope for?

    No one is buying BB10 phones. If they are forced out of the handset business, then there's REALLY not going to be any BB developers. At least if they can make the average consumer happy and increase their market share a bit, there will still be future phones and users that devs have an option to work for.
    02-01-14 09:45 PM
  16. johnnyuk's Avatar
    when's the last time a big name has released their app for BB, or even announced plans to one day do so?
    Last one I can remember off hand was RSA Secure ID soft token app for Remote Access. And that was back in August of last year.

    http://appworld.blackberry.com/webst...ntent/33979888

    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 / 10.2.1.1925 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2
    02-02-14 12:00 AM
  17. web99's Avatar
    My take on the OP's question is that the side-loading ability on BB10 is a non-factor. If you ask any developer what drives them to create apps for a particular platform, market-share of the platform and whether there are enough potential customers on it to make developing for it a worthwhile effort are the two most frequent answers you will get.

    If the Android runtime was removed from every BB10 device, you would not see an avalanche of developers rushing to develop for it. So to me it is a non-factor.



    Posted via CB10 from my spectacular Q10
    02-02-14 12:45 AM
  18. johnnyuk's Avatar
    If the Android runtime was removed from every BB10 device, you would not see an avalanche of developers rushing to develop for it. So to me it is a non-factor.
    Rather you would see an avalanche of customers rushing to leave the platform for iOS, Android and even Windows Phone.


    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 / 10.2.1.1925 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2
    JeepBB likes this.
    02-02-14 12:51 AM
  19. spikesolie's Avatar
    OP didn't you already post this in another thread? You alteady said you'd move on from blackberry...what's the point of this again?

    Posted via CB10
    rcs36 and matt0135 like this.
    02-02-14 01:11 AM
  20. BitPusher2600's Avatar
    It's very obvious that while the Android runtime helps BB users (and therefore BB) in the short run, it poisons long-term BB development. Sure, a few BB loyalists will still develop for BB, but your average company, or the next "must-have" app's company, is going to look at marketshare and say "iOS and Android only", and when they eventually look into WinPhone and BB, they'll find out that BB users already use their Android app, and will cross BB off the list as "done." Most companies don't have, or can't justify, the resources to write a native app to target a sub-1% marketshare, ESPECIALLY when that market is already being served by their Android app.

    I suspect most BB Cascades apps will be written by small, independent companies with 1-5 developers, not counting custom enterprise apps developed under contract for that large corporation - nothing that is open-market.
    This is exactly right folks.
    If people can buy and stick apps on from Android and they already work, indeed, there is zero necessity for anyone big or small to make any efforts for BlackBerry specifically. Just reading endless posts from Android loving app-centric people in these forums alone clearly shows me that a majority of everyone's apps are Android ports. Very depressing looking long-term.

    Posted from BitPusher's Q10
    02-02-14 04:48 AM
  21. neo158's Avatar
    For BB10, which as a platform hasn't seen the growth that Windows Phone has seen in the last 12 months, the situation is rather different.

    It's more a case of it being better that an app developer crosses BlackBerry off as done by using their Android app than crossing BlackBerry off as in 'not gonna bother' because the platform is too small or worse BlackBerry the company is gone.

    That's the harsh reality of where BB10 is today with its app ecosystem. I wish it were different but it is what it is. Android apps right now are breathing life back in to a platform teetering on the brink of existence.


    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 / 10.2.1.1925 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2
    That's the flipside to it though, removing the Android VM at this point would be detrimental to the platform as a whole. I think that the way to look at it is that if enough BB users are using the Android version, that might show developers that there is a demand from them for their apps.

    I do think it's a shame that BB10 isn't seen on level terms with other mobile platforms, WP was in the exact same position when it was released and what WP users did was pushed the developers by asking when a WP version would be available. Maybe that would be the thing for BB10 users to do as well.
    02-02-14 05:11 AM
  22. spikesolie's Avatar
    http://forums.crackberry.com/showthread.php?t=900440


    This is another thread by the OP...troll much?

    Posted via CB10
    02-02-14 10:41 AM
  23. matt0135's Avatar
    http://forums.crackberry.com/showthread.php?t=900440


    This is another thread by the OP...troll much?

    Posted via CB10
    Yeah this is getting a little old he just keeps recycling arguments. Android runtime will be the end for BlackBerry... we get it! (I don't believe it but everyone is entitled to their own opinion no matter how many times they troll it *cough* I mean post it)

    Posted via CB10 on my awesome new Z30!
    02-02-14 10:49 AM
  24. web99's Avatar

    I do think it's a shame that BB10 isn't seen on level terms with other mobile platforms, WP was in the exact same position when it was released and what WP users did was pushed the developers by asking when a WP version would be available. Maybe that would be the thing for BB10 users to do as well.
    It was more than just the users. In the early days, there were a lot of BB10 users lobbying developers for natively built BB10 apps. The one difference in the case of Microsoft was that it was prepared to use its deep pockets to shell out whatever money was required to get those big named apps built for its platform. BBRY in my view, did not.

    Posted from my Samsung Galaxy Note Tablet
    02-02-14 10:56 AM
  25. johnnyuk's Avatar
    I do think it's a shame that BB10 isn't seen on level terms with other mobile platforms, WP was in the exact same position when it was released and what WP users did was pushed the developers by asking when a WP version would be available. Maybe that would be the thing for BB10 users to do as well.
    BB10 users have been hounding developers just as much. But while Windows Phone is seen as the up and coming land of new opportunity, BlackBerry is seen as an old and dieing platform by developers who haven't heard about, so don't know anything about, BB10.

    That misconception is partly BlackBerry's fault for not getting big name developers on board, partly a momentum and cultural thing of BlackBerry's own making by sticking with the under-performing hard to develop for BBOS for so long, and also the result of Microsoft having many many more millions of dollars to spend on winning developers over to Windows Phone.


    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 / 10.2.1.1925 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2
    Last edited by johnnyuk; 02-02-14 at 08:22 PM.
    02-02-14 12:13 PM
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