[mrsimon]

Talking to a marketing expert a week ago, one point struck me that I've found wanting in Blackberry's marketing and sales strategy:

- Make the product available!!

You can get everything else right and create a desire in a potential customer to buy your product, but if it's not available, you're not going to sell very much.

Many people on the forums are talking about buying the Bronze dual-sim model, but it's not available in major markets such as Europe and The USA.

It took various months for the Keyone to become available in major markets. I hope this is going to be addressed after the launch of the KEY 2, for Blackberry Mobile's sake.

What do you think is going to happen?

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

There are lot's of factors involved....

Big one for TCL is they are/were a struggling manufacture. They don't have the resources to build millions of dollars in products and just wait for them to sell over the coming months. They have to keep orders, production and products in sales channels very closely balanced.

I expect the Bronze phone was more about "free" marketing and less about selling a product. It's one thing to make one or two special production runs, but to make one for every variant... not cost efficient.

Even with the KEYone's "success", it will be hard to gauge the demand that the KEYtwo will generate - coming on the heels of the KEYone.

I expect we will see more of the same... slow roll out to different markets. Some large markets may experience some "outages" initially. Few ltd editiion devices thrown in during the year long launch to add some buzz.

[Troy Tiscareno]

BBMo (TCL) has to balance output to demand, or risk the very real problem of producing too much inventory which then has to be sold at a big discount (as BB did with most BB10 phones), and nothing evaporates profits like having to discount inventory. BBMo would rather lose out on a few sales than lose profits.

Sure, they might have been too cautious with the K1, but that's a phone that, after a year or more, has almost certainly sold less than 1M devices. You can't compare that to high-volume flagship phones that sell 10M or more a quarter.

BBMo almost certainly has a whole department whose job it is to make these decisions, and they have far more information about their various markets than you or I have, and they're going to do what's best for TCL.

[Bbnivende]

TCL is in big trouble as a phone manufacturer. I suspect that they may sell off their BlackBerry brand to another Chinese firm after the launch . Just a hunch.

Can TCL make an all touch phone that is competitive ? that is the problem.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

TCL is in big trouble as a phone manufacturer. I suspect that they may sell off their BlackBerry brand to another Chinese firm after the launch . Just a hunch.

Can TCL make an all touch phone that is competitive- that is the problem.

I doubt their licensing deal allows for them to "sell off" the brand.

TCL can make touch phones, problem is the cost of the branding, and software support is very high when dealing with such low volumes. How many OEM's building SD625 phones for $300, both with montly or even feature updates?

[Bbnivende]

I doubt their licensing deal allows for them to "sell off" the brand.

TCL can make touch phones, problem is the cost of the branding, and software support is very high when dealing with such low volumes. How many OEM's building SD625 phones for $300, both with montly or even feature updates?

I bet that BlackBerry would gladly accept any situation that improved the long term viability of the brand.

The sales of Alcatel and TCL branded phones are way down this year. The trend may be irreversible. The market decides.

A BlackBerry should be a better Alcatel but even the Alcatel is not good enough.

[Bbnivende]

The Motion was not equivalent to the Keyone. A Motion 2 needs to be a Key2 but for lack of a PKB. You would think that a slab phone engineered on the same internals could come to the market rather quickly.

[conite]

There are lot's of factors involved....

Big one for TCL is they are/were a struggling manufacture. They don't have the resources to build millions of dollars in products and just wait for them to sell over the coming months. They have to keep orders, production and products in sales channels very closely balanced.

I think TCL is satisfied with how they are handling the brand. But make no mistake, TCL has the wherewithal to sink huge amounts of money into its mobile business if they wanted to or had to.

[Bbnivende]

I think TCL is satisfied with how they are handling the brand. But make no mistake, TCL has the wherewithal to sink huge amounts of money into its mobile business if they wanted to or had to.

I trust that Conite is spouting the corporate spin but it makes more sense for TCL put any extra cash into their TV business . Really, at this point in time, the success or failure of the Key2 is irrelevant given TCL ‘S overall problems in the smartphone market.

[conite]

I trust that Conite is spouting the corporate spin but it makes more sense for TCL put any extra cash into their TV business . Really, at this point in time, the success or failure of the Key2 is irrelevant given TCL ‘S overall problems in the smartphone market.

I'm not arguing whether they should - only that they could.

[portplayer]

Re: the bronze keyone

The subject of a dual-sim BlackBerry being made available in the US has been discussed several times over on these forums. The answer you'll hear a lot, with exception to us cracks', is the demand is not there.

The real reason is carriers hate it. Carriers still cannot get over the fact that consumers are (imo) increasingly buying factory unlocked devices rather than buy devices on payment plans. Why would a carrier provision a device that the consumer can experiment with to find the best of two networks?

I'm hopeful for the future but I cannot see a dual-sim BB KEY2, or any dual-sim BB, for sale in the US anytime soon.

The bronze KEYone being a FCC certified device was cool tho! No matter how moot the certification was.

[Chuck Finley69]

Re: the bronze keyone

The subject of a dual-sim BlackBerry being made available in the US has been discussed several times over on these forums. The answer you'll hear a lot, with exception to us cracks', is the demand is not there.

The real reason is carriers hate it. Carriers still cannot get over the fact that consumers are (imo) increasingly buying factory unlocked devices rather than buy devices on payment plans. Why would a carrier provision a device that the consumer can experiment with to find the best of two networks?

I'm hopeful for the future but I cannot see a dual-sim BB KEY2, or any dual-sim BB, for sale in the US anytime soon.

The bronze KEYone being a FCC certified device was cool tho! No matter how moot the certification was.

It’s not even the factory unlocked or network competition. It’s simply, if you want two SIM cards, then carriers have ability to sell you two devices. With Google Voice and similar type services and factory unlocked devices, you can mimick dual sims fairly close. In the end, I think it’s always just forcing consumers to support device sales volumes.

[bobshine]

The biggest problem with BB is that their market is way way too large for the number of phones they sell. They cannot be present everywhere in the world.

They should reboot and concentrate on one or two markets and build up from there

[portplayer]

It’s not even the factory unlocked or network competition. It’s simply, if you want two SIM cards, then carriers have ability to sell you two devices. With Google Voice and similar type services and factory unlocked devices, you can mimick dual sims fairly close. In the end, I think it’s always just forcing consumers to support device sales volumes.

In the end you're right. It is about support device sales volumes.

I just hope they (at&t) provision wifi calling for the key2. It would completely prevent my forum tirades and any need for Google voice.

[Troy Tiscareno]

The biggest problem with BB is that their market is way way too large for the number of phones they sell. They cannot be present everywhere in the world.

It's kind of a Catch-22. It's extremely difficult - and expensive - to provide distribution, marketing, and support in all of the markets BB(Mo) is in given the total number of phones sold... BUT, reducing the number of markets would almost certainly reduce the number of phones sold to a dangerous level, because BBMo must already be right at the edge of viability given the efficiencies of scale needed for something like a smartphone. There's no easy answer.

[Bbnivende]

Most of their problems could be solved if BlackBerry could make an All touch phone as good as a Huawei and had carrier acceptance in the USA.

[the_boon]

Most of their problems could be solved if BlackBerry could make an All touch phone as good as a Huawei and had carrier acceptance in the USA.

No one cares about a SlabBerry. If they're gonna consider the brand, they want a keyboard.

[Chuck Finley69]

Most of their problems could be solved if BlackBerry could make an All touch phone as good as a Huawei and had carrier acceptance in the USA.

The problem is that carriers don’t seem to care about BlackBerry phones without a PKB. Carriers definitely carried in some varying levels, Passport, Classic, PRIV, and KEYone. You’ll see far less interest with Z30, Leap, DTEK and Motion. BBMo/TCL is wanting into the carrier space for the volumes and perceptions that go with Carrier devices with general consumers. The DTEK line and Motion completely failed in the sense that no USA carrier wanted and sparse carrier demand in Canada even after giving the carriers preferential treatment.

[Bbnivende]

The thing is that Motion is just not good enough . They needed to replicate their TCL strategy of making a very good product at an attractive price. No one is going to buy an Android phone based on software. The hardware has to be much better.

[Chuck Finley69]

The thing is that Motion is just not good enough . They needed to replicate their TCL strategy of making a very good product at an attractive price. No one is going to buy an Android phone based on software. The hardware has to be much better.

The carriers will tell BBMo/TCL what to manufacture, where to price it, what KB it will have and how many will be ordered.

That’s how the OEMs deal with the carriers so consumers will have access to enhanced services and their devices. The market is BBMo/TCL needs to satisfy for now is the carrier market. They need the sales volume only a carrier is capable of providing.

[Bbnivende]

The carriers will tell BBMo/TCL what to manufacture, where to price it, what KB it will have and how many will be ordered.

That’s how the OEMs deal with the carriers so consumers will have access to enhanced services and their devices. The market is BBMo/TCL needs to satisfy for now is the carrier market. They need the sales volume only a carrier is capable of providing.

I agree with you . There is little point in making a BlackBerry all touch phone that carriers will not or can not sell in the USA. Huawei and even Nokia can get by on sales outside of the USA but BlackBerry can not.

Regardless, the first step must be to improve their all touch product.

[Chuck Finley69]

I agree with you . There is little point in making a BlackBerry all touch phone that carriers will not or can not sell in the USA. Huawei and even Nokia can get by on sales outside of the USA but BlackBerry can not.

Regardless, the first step must be to improve their all touch product.

When the carriers tell BBMo/TCL what it will take for a VKB device to be ordered and stocked, if BBMo/TCL can do it, they will. Alcatel devices are on Carrier shelves as prepaid devices. If the carriers want a VKB licensed BB, they’ll let BBMo/TCL know. It’s a case of don’t call us we’ll call you.

[Bbnivende]

The other problem is with the software. Consumers want an all-touch phone selling at the Motion price point are wanting an up to date OS at the time of sale.

Most posters here do not care about a BlackBerry that lacks a PKB but they should. BlackBerry as a brand is not viable in the long-term without a VKB (not unlike a car brand without an SUV model ).

[Invictus0]

You’ll see far less interest with Z30, Leap, DTEK and Motion.

It probably has more to do with the fact that these devices were either low volume or had bad rollouts.

Physical keyboards will always be a differentiating factor for the brand but IIRC BlackBerry wanted licensees to sell millions of devices (can't find the exact quote, I think it was originally posted by @bb10adopter111), I don't see how that would be possible without a successful VKB device strategy to go along with it.

[Chuck Finley69]

It probably has more to do with the fact that these devices were either low volume or had bad rollouts.

Physical keyboards will always be a differentiating factor for the brand but IIRC BlackBerry wanted licensees to sell millions of devices (can't find the exact quote, I think it was originally posted by @bb10adopter111), I don't see how that would be possible without a successful VKB device strategy to go along with it.

They were both low volume and poor rollouts. BlackBerry always relied heavily on the carriers for both. Why do you think Z10 was before Q10? That wasn’t a BlackBerry choice as much as carrier demand since VKB sells better than PKB. It’s not that carriers don’t want VKB, they don’t need a BlackBerry VKB. Carriers will not replace anything successful as long as it's successful and that’s only measured in customer demand and customer profits with profits the most important.