03-22-16 05:16 PM
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  1. Timothius01's Avatar
    Does anyone have an estimate of how much it would cost BlackBerry annually to continue the development of BB10? It seems the hard part has already been done. Once the OS is operable and in use, as BB10 is, is it really that costly to continue maintaining and improving it?

    Another question occurred to me: is it more difficult to code in Cascades or for the BB10 OS than it is to do so for Android or IOS? I've noticed several times features have been added to BlackBerry-related apps on competing platforms before they have been added to the equivalent native BB10 app. Other than the popularity of the other platforms versus the lack of popularity of BB10, I wonder, what else is driving this?

    Timothius
    03-17-16 05:15 PM
  2. anon(9742832)'s Avatar
    Not as much as people think. The heavy lifting was done years ago, you just need to be dedicated to it.....
    03-17-16 05:24 PM
  3. Alain_A's Avatar
    Not as much as people think. The heavy lifting was done years ago, you just need to be dedicated to it.....
    Where's your *Woof*?
    neoberry99 likes this.
    03-17-16 05:32 PM
  4. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    I would guess that active development of BB10 - only the OS - would cost something like 10-20 million dollars per year. That would pay for a 20 person team.

    But the OS by itself can't survive in a vacuum. You would need to update to a current version of QT. Development tools would have to be updated and maintained. You would need an R&D department developing and implementing new technologies. That's just to allow developers to maintain their apps and keep the OS at relative parity with the market.

    Blackberrys license with Google prevents new devices with the Android runtime, so that would have to be removed if they wanted to make any new devices. They would also either be forced to use old components or pay millions for QNX drivers for newer hardware. And they would either need design and engineering groups or would have to pay their manufacturing partners to do that work.

    You would then have a usable OS and a few first party apps, and a few third-party apps, but no Android compatibility, even for any of the converted apps in BB World.

    Even if they didn't make more devices, they'd have to pay around 40-50M to maintain the OS and development components. How would that be paid for?

    And new devices? Well over 100M before you pay for parts or manufacturing, and then you'd have marketing and distribution costs.

    The math just isn't even close to working. Remember that BB10 as a whole not only has never generated a cent of net profit, it has actually been a net loss of around $10B.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    Dunt Dunt Dunt and Eumaeus like this.
    03-17-16 05:57 PM
  5. early2bed's Avatar
    I don't know how much it costs but look at who they are competing against: Apple, Google, and Microsoft. Do you think they are done with their mobile operating systems and are just coasting along on what was done years ago? Are their platform development teams twiddling their thumbs all day? Some people here are so delusional that they actually think that the competition is still trying to catch up to BlackBerry 10. It defies logic.
    03-17-16 06:51 PM
  6. app_Developer's Avatar
    You're going to get a lot of estimates here that are "3 guys in a garage" sort of estimates.

    I would look at Microsoft, Apple, Google ... Or even BlackBerry at its peak when BB6/7 were in active development. You would normal expect to see hundreds or even thousands of people working on a complete OS, with frameworks, SDKs, and all of that.
    03-17-16 07:00 PM
  7. anon(9742832)'s Avatar
    WOOF.....................double................... .WOOF!
    David Tyler likes this.
    03-17-16 07:23 PM
  8. Timothius01's Avatar
    I know it's unconventional, but I was wondering whether, if those who want BB10 paid an annual subscription price to support the OS, could that reasonably generate enough revenue to make it self-sustaining and support its ongoing development--almost like paying for a domain. I'm not sure how much the annual subscription price would have to be, but I'd easily pay between $25.00 to $50.00 annually, if it would result in me not having to give up the peek and flow of BB10 and move to something like Android or IOS.

    Timothius
    idssteve likes this.
    03-18-16 03:58 AM
  9. bakron1's Avatar
    From a business standpoint, with a Android based OS, Blackberry could get any device manufacturer to make a device and flash their custom Android ROM to it and save a fortune in hardware development cost.

    Being they have spent a lot on money on acquiring security and software related companies, I think the new focus is in software rather then hardware.

    We have two weeks until the corporate numbers come out on April 1st and that should be a pretty dam good indication of what the Priv is doing as far as sales are concerned . Should get interesting from there, now it's wait and see.
    03-18-16 04:33 AM
  10. JulesDB's Avatar
    BUT .......... BlackBerry isn't giving up with BlackBerry10 according to JC's latest statement ...

    So what? What's next?

    Posted via CB10
    03-18-16 05:55 AM
  11. early2bed's Avatar
    I'm not sure how much the annual subscription price would have to be, but I'd easily pay between $25.00 to $50.00 annually, if it would result in me not having to give up the peek and flow of BB10...
    LOL. Every time someone says what they would be theoretically willing to pay they include a "as long as..." clause and they are all different.
    sentimentGX4 likes this.
    03-18-16 06:58 AM
  12. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I know it's unconventional, but I was wondering whether, if those who want BB10 paid an annual subscription price to support the OS, could that reasonably generate enough revenue to make it self-sustaining and support its ongoing development--almost like paying for a domain. I'm not sure how much the annual subscription price would have to be, but I'd easily pay between $25.00 to $50.00 annually, if it would result in me not having to give up the peek and flow of BB10 and move to something like Android or IOS.

    Timothius
    I would also be happy to do that, if it included maintenance and improvement to the browser and core built-in apps, such as calendar, contacts, remember, etc. I don't care at all about the Android run time.

    I just want a great work phone, with an exceptional Internet experience and file handling capabilities. Better native Microsoft integration, including sharepoint would be more valuable than FB and the other social apps.

    Posted via CB10
    Q10Bold likes this.
    03-18-16 08:22 AM
  13. antonio266's Avatar
    I'd pay a subscription fee. Write them a suggestion.
    03-18-16 08:57 AM
  14. MmmHmm's Avatar
    Too much, apparently.
    jas1978 likes this.
    03-18-16 09:32 AM
  15. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    So you want to put BB10 back into the development phase of its life cycle.

    One of the first things to do is, go out and recruit new talent.
    This will be a global search.
    You probably don't want to get the old band back together, even if you could.
    The good ones are not sitting idle, they got snapped up by your competition.
    Most of them won't want to work for you now, because you gave them the sack.
    The ones that are sitting by the phone are not the ones you want for another set of reasons.
    So now you need to find new people to work for a company who has a demonstrated lack of follow-through.
    On a product that has already failed in the market place.
    Many of these people will not see KW as a place to settle down.

    A new team goes through these stages: forming, storming, norming and performing.
    So you generally have to wait months for the team to get reasonably productive.

    Also the new team will also never really take ownership of the legacy code the same way the original authors did.

    Nothing to it, easy peasy.
    Elephant_Canyon and JeepBB like this.
    03-18-16 10:49 AM
  16. byex's Avatar
    More than we will ever know and more than what BlackBerry cares to spend.

    Posted via CB10
    TgeekB and JeepBB like this.
    03-18-16 10:57 AM
  17. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    I know it's unconventional, but I was wondering whether, if those who want BB10 paid an annual subscription price to support the OS, could that reasonably generate enough revenue to make it self-sustaining and support its ongoing development--almost like paying for a domain. I'm not sure how much the annual subscription price would have to be, but I'd easily pay between $25.00 to $50.00 annually, if it would result in me not having to give up the peek and flow of BB10 and move to something like Android or IOS.
    Using my lowest low-ball number of $10M/year for the most basic maintenance, you'd need 10,000 people willing to pay $100/year (probably up-front) just to cover the costs. But in the real world, that wouldn't be enough, because if you have 10,000 in Year 1, you're going to be lucky to have 5,000 in Year 2. BB would probably need more like 50k people willing to spend the money to make it even worth the effort of doing a hiring campaign (because, remember, those devs were laid off 8-12 months ago), and because it would take 6-12 months to get a new team up to speed.

    Remember: this is no new devices, no app updates, no runtime updates, no API updates, no QT update, no updates to development tools, etc. Just maintaining the OS and the browser for devices that are already 2 years old.

    What are the chances that you'd get that many people willing to commit that money?

    IMO, you'll see this:

    How Much Does It Cost Per Year To Continue Development of BB10?-4f5961b4-c17c-40c7-ae8c-a85d4c346fe8.jpg

    long before you'd get 50,000 people to pay for OS updates for 2 or 3 year old devices.
    JeepBB likes this.
    03-18-16 03:45 PM
  18. Prem WatsApp's Avatar
    I'd pay a subscription fee. Write them a suggestion.
    :-D

      There's a Crack in the Berry right now...  
    03-18-16 07:53 PM
  19. Prem WatsApp's Avatar
    How Much Does It Cost Per Year To Continue Development of BB10?-img_20160319_103732.png

    :-)

      There's a Crack in the Berry right now...  
    03-18-16 07:54 PM
  20. ohaiguise's Avatar
    Here's your answer

    03-18-16 07:56 PM
  21. JulesDB's Avatar
    Even if BlackBerry10 has generated a general big loss, that was primarily in the beginning. Now BlackBerry10 is an asset even if can't generate profit.

    And according to Troy, the costs to maintaining it could be up to 55 millions.

    Anyway remember that BlackBerry has 3 billions in cash. Comparing to that 55 millions it's an huge capital so they could use it to develop BlackBerry10 to keep up with other OS's, betting and believing on it.

    So BlackBerry has an asset, money and fear.

    Posted via CB10
    03-19-16 01:58 AM
  22. thurask's Avatar
    Anyway remember that BlackBerry has 3 billions in cash. Comparing to that 55 millions it's an huge capital so they could use it to develop BlackBerry10 to keep up with other OS's, betting and believing on it.
    Or they could not, and not waste their time and money on things like that?

    You yourself said it isn't profitable...
    TgeekB and JeepBB like this.
    03-19-16 03:21 AM
  23. DamianWarS's Avatar
    BB's game is security software now which means EMM. If you are going to be an expert at security and EMM it makes sense to develop a phone/OS as well with the highest of security. This can't be accomplished with someone else's OS and it needs to be their own. Right now BB's best plan is to hope the classic and leap are going to be acceptable fleet devices for enterprise and the passport an acceptable elite device for those who need to be separated so it can at least be self sustaining. When the OS is making money they will be more aggressive with updates but until then I don't see them dropping BB10 but just shelving it, pulling it out once and a while to dust it off and maybe just maybe have larger updates every couple of years to keep it current. Even if it doesn't make money it seems a non-negotiable to keep and continue to develop BB10, however slowly, to be relevant in the market.
    03-19-16 03:43 AM
  24. Drenegade's Avatar
    Even if BlackBerry10 has generated a general big loss, that was primarily in the beginning. Now BlackBerry10 is an asset even if can't generate profit.

    And according to Troy, the costs to maintaining it could be up to 55 millions.

    Anyway remember that BlackBerry has 3 billions in cash. Comparing to that 55 millions it's an huge capital so they could use it to develop BlackBerry10 to keep up with other OS's, betting and believing on it.

    So BlackBerry has an asset, money and fear.

    Posted via CB10
    Well with 3 billion in the bank at 55 million a year, BlackBerry could afford to keep OS10 going for many more years. Honestly, I'd be happy if they just kept on developing at a loss until they run out of money. It would help me out because I don't want to switch platforms.



    Posted via CB10
    03-19-16 03:50 AM
  25. Ronindan's Avatar
    Well with 3 billion in the bank at 55 million a year, BlackBerry could afford to keep OS10 going for many more years. Honestly, I'd be happy if they just kept on developing at a loss until they run out of money. It would help me out because I don't want to switch platforms.



    Posted via CB10
    Unfortunately BB is not a charity. They are obligated to make a profit for their shareholders. I for one wish BB best of luck as they move back from being a smartphone manufacturer to an enterprise software/solution company. Which they were before their devices was used by consumers.
    03-19-16 08:03 AM
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