03-11-14 08:39 PM
28 12
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  1. Oiram Asojonih's Avatar
    We all know that U.S. Carriers are full of it regarding "testing " but what if anything can be done if carriers keep holding 10.2.1 release? Can the FCC inquire or investigate? It'd be nice if there was a peep that BlackBerry is wondering or hammering away at carriers too once in a while.

    Posted via CB10
    03-11-14 10:37 AM
  2. web99's Avatar
    If the rest of the world's carriers can fully test and release 10.2.1 by the end of February, I don't see any reason why the US Carriers can't.

    Posted via CB10 from my spectacular Z10
    Relletti likes this.
    03-11-14 10:44 AM
  3. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    They can't because they are lying about testing... they aren't doing a damn thing.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141
    MADBRADNYC, potatoguy and Relletti like this.
    03-11-14 10:49 AM
  4. Emboarg7's Avatar
    They can't because they are lying about testing... they aren't doing a damn thing.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141
    That's the reason, sadly

    Posted using my z10(or x10 according to Best Buy )
    03-11-14 10:54 AM
  5. Oiram Asojonih's Avatar
    No doubt on the testing, but how long does the game continue I wonder. At what point does BlackBerry tell consumers publicly or accuse U.S. Carriers of deliberate sabotage, file a lawsuit or call for an investigation? I sit in amazement as weeks go by, heck months since the rest of the world had 10.2.1 and nothing happens. Shame, shame, shame...

    Posted via CB10
    03-11-14 10:55 AM
  6. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    No doubt on the testing, but how long does the game continue I wonder. At what point does BlackBerry tell consumers publicly or accuse U.S. Carriers of deliberate sabotage, file a lawsuit or call for an investigation? I sit in amazement as weeks go by, heck months since the rest of the world had 10.2.1 and nothing happens. Shame, shame, shame...

    Posted via CB10
    BlackBerry consumers in the US need to complain to their carriers and BlackBerry.... or nothing will be done.... if they sit quietly and just switch platforms nothing will get fixed....

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141
    03-11-14 11:03 AM
  7. MADBRADNYC's Avatar
    They can't because they are lying about testing... they aren't doing a damn thing.
    Too funny!
    03-11-14 11:33 AM
  8. MADBRADNYC's Avatar


    And yes, it ends with a "wash".
    03-11-14 11:34 AM
  9. Ment's Avatar
    Samsung S4 just got updated 4.4.2 KitKat on Tmobile yesterday. This Android version update debuted on Nexus on Dec 9. BB10 fans are in for a long wait. Estimate another month.
    03-11-14 11:39 AM
  10. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    The actual "testing" part by the carriers normally takes 4-8 weeks, depending on if problems are found and if those problems can be quickly corrected. Something like T-Mo's WiFi calling, which no other carrier offers, could potentially delay an update even further.

    But I also believe that OS updates aren't tested in order of arrival at the carriers, but are put in line based on a weighted priority. "Important" phones (i.e., phones with a high number of sales, that bring in huge dollars to the carriers) seem to get the most priority, and phones with mid-level sales get a medium priority, and so on. If there is a major issue, such as BB had with the rebooting bug in 10.0, then that will bump up the priority, but keep in mind that each carrier has 20-40+ phones/devices on sale, plus double that number of older devices that are still in their 18-to-24-month update window, so that is a LOT of updates to have to test.

    As I talked about in this post, BB, like every other manufacturer, has a contract with each carrier that spells out the update process, and because it is the CARRIERS, and not the manufacturer, who provides end-user support for smartphones in the US, the carriers have much more say about OS updates. In other countries, as long as the radio portion works, the carriers are good to go, but in the US, the carriers have to support the WHOLE phone, including the OS, so testing is much more extensive.

    One of the reasons Apple only has to have limited testing done by the carriers, and was able to secure "front-of-the-line" status for getting their radio code tested, is because they have a network of their own stores, and can provide primary support for their products. No other manufacturer has that in the US - the carriers do that for them. That fact, plus the huge leverage Apple had prior to the iPhone launch, is how they secured special treatment from AT&T, which set the precedent for their special treatment on other carriers. No other manufacturer can expect that treatment unless they have HUGE leverage with the carriers (only Samsung has that right now), AND has a carrier store or three in every major city in America to provide primary end-user support.
    randall2580 likes this.
    03-11-14 11:56 AM
  11. Oiram Asojonih's Avatar
    I can't speak for others, but I've called AT&T four times and tweeted several, so I'm not just watching the forums. They always have the same story. "Testing " or they tell me I have the latest update. There are many many BlackBerry users out there that are trying, but we need help. It's obvious that US carriers are not concerned with us being frustrated.

    Posted via CB10
    03-11-14 12:43 PM
  12. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    I can't speak for others, but I've called AT&T four times and tweeted several, so I'm not just watching the forums. They always have the same story. "Testing " or they tell me I have the latest update. There are many many BlackBerry users out there that are trying, but we need help. It's obvious that US carriers are not concerned with us being frustrated.

    Posted via CB10
    Which is why I believe the carriers are completely at fault.... they wouldn't be telling you " you have the latest update..." lol... but we need to have Chen call out the carriers for not supporting their customers who own BlackBerry devices... or BlackBerry should give out the updates without permission... (sneak updates) they won't notice anyway... they already think BlackBerry is dead right?...

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141
    03-11-14 01:10 PM
  13. Oiram Asojonih's Avatar
    Haha. True. Great open letter from Crackberry today too. Maybe that will get some attention at BlackBerry HQ. Haha. Probably not though. Whatever!

    Posted via CB10
    03-11-14 01:27 PM
  14. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    No other manufacturer can expect that treatment unless they have HUGE leverage with the carriers (only Samsung has that right now), AND has a carrier store or three in every major city in America to provide primary end-user support.
    Even Samsung doesn't have that leverage, IMO. If Verizon pulls all Samsung products from shelves, how many consumers do you think would switch carriers to use the Galaxy S 5 or Note 4?

    Samsung is not Apple and even Apple didn't pull so many consumers away from non-AT&T carriers to severely damage a company like Verizon. As a matter of fact, a number of large, international carriers have given Apple the cold shoulder a number of times. Apple certainly draws some customers but even its clout is not big enough to cause a significant number of subscribers to change carriers.

    Samsung has many consumers; but they are not devout and its product line is rather commoditized. If the carriers ever felt the need to pull the plug on Samsung, they could do so easily. Of course, they have no incentive to do so whatsoever; but, Samsung's leverage against the carriers is very weak/nonexistent.

    Samsung does have leverage vs. Google, though, which has leverage vs. the carriers so it could have a smaller influence on them in a roundabout matter. Google controls all of Android so the carriers can't beat around Google.
    03-11-14 01:38 PM
  15. WhateverColorBerry's Avatar
    Still don't understand what carriers have to do with the software of my device. If it doesn't work you could still use an older version or they could blame BlackBerry. It's not like they help me with software problems if I have them. If my phone function won't work after an update they'll tell me to reinstall or use an older software version.

    Posted via CB10
    03-11-14 01:45 PM
  16. Ment's Avatar
    Samsung does have leverage vs. Google, though, which has leverage vs. the carriers so it could have a smaller influence on them in a roundabout matter. Google controls all of Android so the carriers can't beat around Google.
    Even Google doesn't have that much leverage else the Nexus 5 would be on Verizon but they couldn't force Verizon not to put crapware on it and not restrict Google Wallet.
    Still don't understand what carriers have to do with the software of my device. If it doesn't work you could still use an older version or they could blame BlackBerry. It's not like they help me with software problems if I have them. If my phone function won't work after an update they'll tell me to reinstall or use an older software version.

    Posted via CB10
    Thats the issue. In the US phone contract structure, consumers will always go to the carrier for problems. If a Samsung update borks a device or a phone feature, the consumers call the carrier or go to the carrier stores because phone makers don't have brick and mortar presence outside of Apple.
    03-11-14 02:46 PM
  17. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    But I also believe that OS updates aren't tested in order of arrival at the carriers, but are put in line based on a weighted priority. "Important" phones (i.e., phones with a high number of sales, that bring in huge dollars to the carriers) seem to get the most priority, and phones with mid-level sales get a medium priority, and so on. If there is a major issue, such as BB had with the rebooting bug in 10.0, then that will bump up the priority, but keep in mind that each carrier has 20-40+ phones/devices on sale, plus double that number of older devices that are still in their 18-to-24-month update window, so that is a LOT of updates to have to test.
    Add to that... Phones that are about to be superceded by newer models. VZW is notorious for this. VZW is the last US holdout for the GS4 update, and it probably won't happen until after the initial GS5 sales taper off. Based upon previous practices, if the GS5 wasn't so close to release, VZW would have already pushed the KitKat update.


    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
    03-11-14 03:00 PM
  18. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    Add to that... Phones that are about to be superceded by newer models. VZW is notorious for this. VZW is the last US holdout for the GS4 update, and it probably won't happen until after the initial GS5 sales taper off. Based upon previous practices, if the GS5 wasn't so close to release, VZW would have already pushed the KitKat update.


    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
    So it really isn't a BlackBerry thing it's a carrier issue? They are just painfully more slow on BlackBerry because it is at the bottom of their list.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141
    03-11-14 03:08 PM
  19. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    So it really isn't a BlackBerry thing it's a carrier issue? They are just painfully more slow on BlackBerry because it is at the bottom of their list.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141
    Pretty much. It's not just BB users that feel the pain. Though perhaps BB could mitigate the pain a bit by taking a similar route that Android has. Android can now update directly to 4.0+ users a lot of features and improvements, but those are limited to anything that doesn't require a core OS update.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
    03-11-14 03:14 PM
  20. masterscarhead1's Avatar
    I think in the long run, BB will end up doing direct updates
    Keep in mind everything that is currently happening is what Thorsten put in place
    You gotta give Chen more than a few months to change things
    Ultimately, BB can't be on worse terms with USA carriers, so they might as well just update directly and ignore their "testing"
    03-11-14 03:27 PM
  21. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    I think in the long run, BB will end up doing direct updates
    Keep in mind everything that is currently happening is what Thorsten put in place
    You gotta give Chen more than a few months to change things
    Ultimately, BB can't be on worse terms with USA carriers, so they might as well just update directly and ignore their "testing"
    You can't just ignore the carrier testing. Whether you deploy it yourself or not, the carriers have to test first.


    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
    03-11-14 03:39 PM
  22. randall2580's Avatar
    I think in the long run, BB will end up doing direct updates

    Ultimately, BB can't be on worse terms with USA carriers, so they might as well just update directly and ignore their "testing"
    Actually, yes they can. @Troy Tiscareno made a great point today about Sprint and Verizon the 2 CDMA carriers in this country. At AT&T and TMobile you can just put a SIM in any GSM compatible phone and it pretty much works. You might not have a service like Wifi Calling but your phone probably works. On the CDMA carriers they provision each and every single phone in their computer to work. Tablets too (see the kerfluffle regarding the New Nexus 7 and Verizon if you want to see first hand how if Verizon says you don't work on our network - you don't work on their network). If Verizon gets angry with BlackBerry for pushing updates it did not authorize, it can just refuse to provision the phones on the Network. As Verizon seems to be the only carrier with any value left to their relationship with BlackBerry - why would you risk it if you were Chen?

    He won't - he knows better.
    03-11-14 03:48 PM
  23. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    You can't just ignore the carrier testing. Whether you deploy it yourself or not, the carriers have to test first.


    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
    Correct. But other carriers have done the testing. Don't need to wait for everyone else when it's based on the same technologies.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141
    03-11-14 04:03 PM
  24. masterscarhead1's Avatar
    Apple does it.... It won't stand in court. It depends whether BB is ready to fight a long legal war
    03-11-14 04:22 PM
  25. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    Correct. But other carriers have done the testing. Don't need to wait for everyone else when it's based on the same technologies.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141
    Just because it's fine on one carrier does not make it fine for all of them. Especially when each carrier has different policies from the others. If they were all based on the same technologies and policies, you'd be able to buy one device from one source that would be compatible with all carriers. Sadly, that's not the case.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
    03-11-14 05:02 PM
28 12

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