04-06-14 07:09 PM
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  1. wout000's Avatar
    Are not most* of these Android low cost phone manufacturers Losing money? Is it possible that BB/Apple/Samsung pricing is appropriate for a business model and the others are too low? Or are we simply looking at this from a customer point of view and everything we buy should be inexpensive?
    I don't think they are. Losing money isn't a sustainable business model, especially in the Android handset market. Selling the handset is the only income these companies have.
    It's not about everything we buy that needs to be inexpensive, I don't mind a BlackBerry handset going for $800 if it sells well. It's about putting the right price on a product according to that product's relation to the market.

    A Z10 at $800 was nuts and sales figures showed that. Pricing it at $499 would have been better for the sales figures.
    If BlackBerry was at the top of it's game like several years ago the $800 price tag would have been justified but it's not. Adapting to the changing market is something BlackBerry has always struggled to do. By enlisting Foxconn for their next handset this will hopefully change but as long as they keep their own assembly plants open I'm afraid we'd keep getting overpriced devices from them.
    04-06-14 01:47 AM
  2. Kashan Osama's Avatar
    The US/Europe market has a good way of telling us if something is overpriced - it doesn't sell - Apple devices are very clearly not overpriced.
    they are clearly overpriced atleast where carriers are not available,like here in Pakistan,India etc...I can name hundreds of people whom I have a personal relation owning an iPhone just because of brand-recognition and all that hype..They didn't even "need" a smartphone,they just buy it due to that "Apple" logo...but then there are good people those who own iPhones because they are older and simplistic interface really really helps them,or some guys who need quality apps and hastle free experience.....

    Well Android has caught up in terms of software only now,I mean only in late 2013,so lets see how competition goes on from here
    04-06-14 03:13 AM
  3. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    (OP) It's called self-subsidized devices. This is a marketing strategy where you sell a particular device for zero profit (means negative operational profits) because you want to gain attention. Compares to the promotional prices (usually after 6-12 months) but without the "promo" sticker.

    Very aggressive marketing plan, but they better have to sell over their objectives, because these discounted prices are set for a # of pre-built devices; you have to make them all at once to gain economy of scale.
    Sounds like an "all in" for a small company. GL to them.
    Kashan Osama likes this.
    04-06-14 03:50 AM
  4. qbnkelt's Avatar
    If by going by CGK's logic, by the measure that you were willing to fork out to buy it, it wasn't overpriced.

    Unless...

    Buyer's remorse?

    *click click*
    BUYR
    *click click*
    No clue what the click click is about.

    It was overpriced at 600 bucks. I bought it at 225. So yes, I considered overpriced at original price. And no buyer's remorse at all at 225.


    Posted from my awesome Q10 via CB10.
    04-06-14 04:03 AM
  5. wout000's Avatar
    (OP) It's called self-subsidized devices. This is a marketing strategy where you sell a particular device for zero profit (means negative operational profits) because you want to gain attention. Compares to the promotional prices (usually after 6-12 months) but without the "promo" sticker.

    Very aggressive marketing plan, but they better have to sell over their objectives, because these discounted prices are set for a # of pre-built devices; you have to make them all at once to gain economy of scale.
    Sounds like an "all in" for a small company. GL to them.
    I know it's a marketing technique that's sometimes used but I'm guessing it's not applicable here. The hardware itself will be around $200 BOM and I can't imagine they have a whole lot of overhead.
    04-06-14 04:20 AM
  6. JulesDB's Avatar
    The point isn't about OSes, it's about selling price.
    Did you read what I wrote?

    Selling price it's the sum of all the costs: due to time consuming, programming is the bigger of all costs.

    What you see it's not only a piece of electronics!
    keepthetorch likes this.
    04-06-14 04:26 AM
  7. menshawy's Avatar
    Quality of hardware
    The OS itself
    The brand name (BlackBerry)

    These are the three major factors for the high price tags BlackBerry gives for it's devices

    Chen is a smart guy, he looked at the rising brands and what they offer of cheap but great devices so he started involving BlackBerry into this new game which Apple didn't attempt to do, he partnered with FoxConn and introduced together the Z3.

    BlackBerry OS is amazing we know that. I'm using my Z10 for a year now and never felt any change of speed or performance and it shall never be.

    I'm sure that even the budget friendly Z3 won't be slow, and yet it will have good quality hardware.

    So:
    Quality of hardware
    The OS itself
    The brand name (BlackBerry)
    Cheap prices

    Winning deal


    Posted via CB10
    keepthetorch likes this.
    04-06-14 04:35 AM
  8. madman0141's Avatar
    Great post OP I never heard of OPPO thanks.
    04-06-14 05:26 AM
  9. --TommesJay--'s Avatar
    I know it's just BOM. I did clarify that in the post.
    Ok then. But the problem is that you obviously have absolutely no idea how big the gap between a BOM for a single unit and an entire company getting a finished and packaged product on a shelf really is. It's always the same with guys like you, I've heard this a couple dozen times. It's always "Okay I get that $154 is a BOM only, BUT EVEN IF WE ADD [insert fantasy numbers here] for [insert fantasy bill position here] we won't land on a $650 retail price!"

    Just let me tell you that any phones BOM you see doesn't reflect its margin or 'fair' retail price by any means. It makes no sense to discuss the BOM at all.

    You can have a company that sells a phone with a $100 BOM at a retail price of $ 230 and generates a margin of 20% per phone. And at the same time you can have a second company which sells a phone with a BOM of $80 at a retail price of $250 at a loss.
    04-06-14 06:05 AM
  10. wout000's Avatar
    Ok then. But the problem is that you obviously have absolutely no idea how big the gap between a BOM for a single unit and an entire company getting a finished and packaged product on a shelf really is. It's always the same with guys like you, I've heard this a couple dozen times. It's always "Okay I get that $154 is a BOM only, BUT EVEN IF WE ADD [insert fantasy numbers here] for [insert fantasy bill position here] we won't land on a $650 retail price!"

    Just let me tell you that any phones BOM you see doesn't reflect its margin or 'fair' retail price by any means. It makes no sense to discuss the BOM at all.

    You can have a company that sells a phone with a $100 BOM at a retail price of $ 230 and generates a margin of 20% per phone. And at the same time you can have a second company which sells a phone with a BOM of $80 at a retail price of $250 at a loss.
    I know, just like most of the guys like me as you so eloquently put it also know.

    It's not about that though. It's about them pricing it at $800 retail while their market share was/is falling which contributed to them not selling a lot of units.

    They're selling it now for $299 with or without a loss, I don't know but the fact of the matter is, and this is what this thread is supposed to be about, is that they overpriced a device in a volatile market and the fact they were at fault for doing so.

    Posted via CB10
    04-06-14 06:55 AM
  11. badiyee's Avatar
    I know, just like most of the guys like me as you so eloquently put it also know.

    It's not about that though. It's about them pricing it at $800 retail while their market share was/is falling which contributed to them not selling a lot of units.

    They're selling it now for $299 with or without a loss, I don't know but the fact of the matter is, and this is what this thread is supposed to be about, is that they overpriced a device in a volatile market and the fact they were at fault for doing so.

    Posted via CB10
    I think this statement needs to be adjusted.

    The approach that BlackBerry has taken on looking at designing for a phone is different from how they have been doing for the low end legacy devices.

    Posted via CB on BB10
    04-06-14 06:58 AM
  12. BitPusher2600's Avatar
    I think this statement needs to be adjusted.

    The approach that BlackBerry has taken on looking at designing for a phone is different from how they have been doing for the low end legacy devices.

    Posted via CB on BB10
    Valid point at least in the likes of the design of the Z30, the fact they're supposedly testing some sort of 1080p device, better than the days of the Tour or the Storms anyway
    badiyee likes this.
    04-06-14 07:21 AM
  13. BKA22's Avatar
    Seriously, the OPPO sure looks real good. Like I have been saying again and again, BlackBerry has to up its game and price the phones right if they want remain relevant in the device market.
    That phone with BB10 on it

    Z10
    04-06-14 07:27 AM
  14. Nharzhool's Avatar
    That phone with BB10 on it

    Z10
    Well the Ontario is supposed to be the same processor so...I wonder if one could do that.

    No, wait...it won't work because the OS doesn't support that resolution.
    04-06-14 08:03 AM
  15. pkcable's Avatar
    Your pricing is wrong it was actually 599 when it was released and now that the price has been reduced it is actually sold out and not generally available. You have to get it on the aftermarket at a price premium.
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    04-06-14 09:40 AM
  16. ShevyRock's Avatar
    I agree that the price of Z10 at the start was (slightly) too high.
    However, for the BB10 phones are not paid for the latest electronic control, and for the system as well as Apple.
    04-06-14 10:08 AM
  17. Javid Gozalov's Avatar
    One has to realize that BlackBerry made a completely new OS. That is not cheap.
    keepthetorch likes this.
    04-06-14 12:51 PM
  18. Kashan Osama's Avatar
    One has to realize that BlackBerry made a completely new OS. That is not cheap.
    sure...tell it to "dem consumers"
    04-06-14 01:29 PM
  19. iOS Gravity's Avatar
    Blackberry devices are horrible compared to some cheaper Android Phones. I don't get it.
    Kashan Osama likes this.
    04-06-14 01:44 PM
  20. keepthetorch's Avatar
    Blackberry devices are horrible compared to some cheaper Android Phones. I don't get it.
    Maybe before you post a comment like that coming from "iMore" you should "knowMore" about BB phones.
    04-06-14 01:51 PM
  21. Kashan Osama's Avatar
    Blackberry devices are horrible compared to some cheaper Android Phones. I don't get it.
    Hey gravity D
    04-06-14 02:02 PM
  22. keepthetorch's Avatar
    Hey gravity D
    "Dem" apples don't fall far from the tree.....or Crackberry for that matter.
    Kashan Osama and menshawy like this.
    04-06-14 02:23 PM
  23. chalx's Avatar
    I would not pay any mobile more than €250 anymore. There is so much good options in that price segment that there is no reason to pay more than that. I don't "value" any OS anymore to be foolish enough to give 500, 600 or 800€ for a phone.

    Sent from my Lumia 925 Tapatalk
    04-06-14 02:43 PM
  24. TgeekB's Avatar
    I would not pay any mobile more than €250 anymore. There is so much good options in that price segment that there is no reason to pay more than that. I don't "value" any OS anymore to be foolish enough to give 500, 600 or 800€ for a phone.

    Sent from my Lumia 925 Tapatalk
    This is very true. Prices for very decent devices have come down considerably.

    Posted via my Nexus 10.
    04-06-14 02:51 PM
  25. iOS Gravity's Avatar
    Maybe before you post a comment like that coming from "iMore" you should "knowMore" about BB phones.
    I'm speaking from my experience. People were right about the atmosphere here at Crackberry.
    Kashan Osama likes this.
    04-06-14 03:23 PM
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