1. Nguyen1's Avatar
    I assume the new BB phone will be focusing on English-language countries. But, if not, then why not consider an e-ink pkb? That would increase the countries that could use the phone, plus a user could customize the pkb to his/her heart's content. Sure, it would add a bit more cost to the price, but the phone is going to be expensive anyway, so what is a few more bucks?
    whatnow00 likes this.
    09-04-20 05:36 PM
  2. 3800's Avatar
    I assume the new BB phone will be focusing on English-language countries. But, if not, then why not consider an e-ink pkb? That would increase the countries that could use the phone, plus a user could customize the pkb to his/her heart's content. Sure, it would add a bit more cost to the price, but the phone is going to be expensive anyway, so what is a few more bucks?
    who says its gonna be expensive
    09-04-20 05:37 PM
  3. zer0ten's Avatar
    who says its gonna be expensive
    Every single indicator based on 13 years of history.

    BlackBerry devices have always been overpriced. Their last device, the K2, being one of the more extreme examples.
    09-04-20 05:40 PM
  4. 3800's Avatar
    Every single indicator based on 13 years of history.

    BlackBerry devices have always been overpriced. Their last device, the K2, being one of the more extreme examples.
    "overpriced" is different than "expensive" and also its different manufacturers. from everything reported it'll probably be around $600
    09-04-20 05:45 PM
  5. bakron1's Avatar
    "overpriced" is different than "expensive" and also its different manufacturers. from everything reported it'll probably be around $600
    It’s all speculation at this point, I feel once they have a working prototype, the pricing will be the next phase. Should be an interesting few months ahead, I am excited.
    09-04-20 05:54 PM
  6. idssteve's Avatar
    I assume the new BB phone will be focusing on English-language countries. But, if not, then why not consider an e-ink pkb? That would increase the countries that could use the phone, plus a user could customize the pkb to his/her heart's content. Sure, it would add a bit more cost to the price, but the phone is going to be expensive anyway, so what is a few more bucks?
    I could also appreciate ability to re-map keys. Re labeling them shouldn't prove an insurmountable difficulty, I'd think?
    09-04-20 08:54 PM
  7. Paulelmar18's Avatar
    I could also appreciate ability to re-map keys. Re labeling them shouldn't prove an insurmountable difficulty, I'd think?
    TCL had something like this in mind. There was even a prototype last year.

    Search for "TCL" and "NXTPAPER". Yesterday I saw this at the IFA in Berlin.
    Last edited by Paulelmar18; 09-05-20 at 03:27 AM.
    the_boon likes this.
    09-05-20 03:13 AM
  8. Mirko935's Avatar
    TCL had something like this in mind. There was even a prototype last year.

    Search for "TCL" and "NXTPAPER". Yesterday I saw this at the IFA in Berlin.
    Isn't NXTPAPER basically a new type of an e-ink display? Seems very interesting nonetheless.

    Regarding the topic of a PKB with E Ink, Samsung actually made such a device in 2009.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_U750_Alias_2

    For my needs regarding languages other than English, I'd still like to see the capacitive keyboard as it is on the Priv (and a return of the three-language Multi-language keyboard support!); I don't see how I'd benefit from mappable keys more, unless there would be 35 buttons for letters which I kind of doubt.
    09-05-20 03:43 AM
  9. chain13's Avatar
    Feature that already on VKB since the day one.
    09-05-20 09:25 AM
  10. Emaderton3's Avatar
    What is the advantage of this?
    09-05-20 03:43 PM
  11. Mirko935's Avatar
    What is the advantage of this?
    It would be quite useful for languages which don't use the latin alphabet, but cyrillic, Greek... I guess also Arabic, Chinese, Japanese...?

    Also the ones that do use the latin alphabet, but have additional characters. It could also be used for the possibility of inputting symbols and such, where you wouldn't need to have them displayed on the screen, but instead the keyboard buttons would change. Not that big an advantage for that, IMO, but it wouldn't do any harm either.
    09-05-20 05:44 PM
  12. Emaderton3's Avatar
    It would be quite useful for languages which don't use the latin alphabet, but cyrillic, Greek... I guess also Arabic, Chinese, Japanese...?

    Also the ones that do use the latin alphabet, but have additional characters. It could also be used for the possibility of inputting symbols and such, where you wouldn't need to have them displayed on the screen, but instead the keyboard buttons would change. Not that big an advantage for that, IMO, but it wouldn't do any harm either.
    My understanding is it requires less power as well (at least for a display).
    09-05-20 06:53 PM
  13. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Isn't NXTPAPER basically a new type of an e-ink display? Seems very interesting nonetheless.

    Regarding the topic of a PKB with E Ink, Samsung actually made such a device in 2009.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_U750_Alias_2

    For my needs regarding languages other than English, I'd still like to see the capacitive keyboard as it is on the Priv (and a return of the three-language Multi-language keyboard support!); I don't see how I'd benefit from mappable keys more, unless there would be 35 buttons for letters which I kind of doubt.
    Since they made in 2009 and then stopped as VKB improved, would this be another way that PKB form is fragmented and undesirable from OEM perspective when compared with the VKB format.
    09-05-20 06:56 PM
  14. Shuswap's Avatar
    There's no need for a keyboard phone to be expensive. Years ago you could get a Nokia C3 on Speakout Wireless for $60-$100. I know that whatever Blackberry does will be a *lot* better, but the keyboard itself is not -- or rather, should not be -- an expensive option.

    And I don't think the BB security is really worth the money you throw away on it for most people. A vanilla Android keyboard phone would be nice.
    the_boon and Mirko935 like this.
    09-05-20 07:31 PM
  15. the_boon's Avatar
    Every single indicator based on 13 years of history.

    BlackBerry devices have always been overpriced. Their last device, the K2, being one of the more extreme examples.
    Funny that the KEY2 is what comes to mind when people think "overpriced" Berry, and not the Priv which had a higher launch price.

    This to me confirms the obvious that people are expecting higher costs with a slider, it's not perceived to be as expensive as a fixed PKB.

    What people probably thought of the Priv MSRP:

    "Wow, $800...but that screen is gorgeous and it's awesome to have such a a sleek looking phone and a full keyboard underneath"

    What they thought of the KEY2's MSRP:

    "$650 for this phone that's much like the $550 KEYone with that same tiny LCD and capacitive navigation keys/bezels? And no wireless charging?"
    Mirko935 and Gene Fells like this.
    09-05-20 09:08 PM
  16. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Funny that the KEY2 is what comes to mind when people think "overpriced" Berry, and not the Priv which had a higher launch price.

    This to me confirms the obvious that people are expecting higher costs with a slider, it's not perceived to be as expensive as a fixed PKB.

    What people probably thought of the Priv MSRP:

    "Wow, $800...but that screen is gorgeous and it's awesome to have such a a sleek looking phone and a full keyboard underneath"

    What they thought of the KEY2's MSRP:

    "$650 for this phone that's much like the $550 KEYone with that same tiny LCD and capacitive navigation keys/bezels? And no wireless charging?"
    For time of introduction though, PRIV had awesome specs, on paper.
    09-05-20 09:44 PM
  17. cribble2k's Avatar
    Isn't NXTPAPER basically a new type of an e-ink display? Seems very interesting nonetheless.

    Regarding the topic of a PKB with E Ink, Samsung actually made such a device in 2009.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_U750_Alias_2

    For my needs regarding languages other than English, I'd still like to see the capacitive keyboard as it is on the Priv (and a return of the three-language Multi-language keyboard support!); I don't see how I'd benefit from mappable keys more, unless there would be 35 buttons for letters which I kind of doubt.
    WoW!

    I had no idea that Samsung device existed; I'll have to admit, I'm impressed, even though I'm no longer in the market for a PKB phone.
    the_boon likes this.
    09-06-20 12:35 AM
  18. Mirko935's Avatar
    My understanding is it requires less power as well (at least for a display).
    Oh, I thought you meant for keyboard buttons.

    For displays, yes, less power consumption is an advantage. Now, I'm still not sure if you were asking about e-ink or this NXTPAPER. E-ink is also great for e-book readers because it doesn't fatigue the eyes as an LCD or OLED would, it's really great for reading, and it consumes literally no power for displaying content, only for changing it, sort of like a flip-dot display. It is also perfectly readable in direct sunlight, unlike the usual displays found on phones. As a disadvantage, they have a very slow response time so things like gaming or watching videos are impossible. Not sure how much better or worse this NXTPAPER is regarding those various points, I just skimmed a couple of articles and I think there isn't even any detailed information yet.

    While we're at the subject of e-ink, there has also been a couple of phones that had a regular display on one side, and an e-ink on the other. Unfortunately I haven't yet had the chance to see one in person.

    https://www.gsmarena.com/yotaphone_2-review-1200.php

    https://goodereader.com/blog/e-paper...-trend-of-2019

    Since they made in 2009 and then stopped as VKB improved, would this be another way that PKB form is fragmented and undesirable from OEM perspective when compared with the VKB format.
    I'd say it actually proves a lot of various things are easily achievable from an engineering perspective. It's just that, as with all things in life, the majority wants just one simple thing.
    And it certainly proves how important marketing/exposure in press is, no one knew about those phones, no one knew there were smartphones way before iPhone came to the market, no one knew BB was still alive when Priv came out or could understand that it runs Android as any other phone on the market and they could now happily scroll through their precious Facebook and Instagram feeds on it. etc.
    09-06-20 02:16 AM
  19. the_boon's Avatar
    Oh, I thought you meant for keyboard buttons.

    For displays, yes, less power consumption is an advantage. Now, I'm still not sure if you were asking about e-ink or this NXTPAPER. E-ink is also great for e-book readers because it doesn't fatigue the eyes as an LCD or OLED would, it's really great for reading, and it consumes literally no power for displaying content, only for changing it, sort of like a flip-dot display. It is also perfectly readable in direct sunlight, unlike the usual displays found on phones. As a disadvantage, they have a very slow response time so things like gaming or watching videos are impossible. Not sure how much better or worse this NXTPAPER is regarding those various points, I just skimmed a couple of articles and I think there isn't even any detailed information yet.

    While we're at the subject of e-ink, there has also been a couple of phones that had a regular display on one side, and an e-ink on the other. Unfortunately I haven't yet had the chance to see one in person.

    https://www.gsmarena.com/yotaphone_2-review-1200.php

    https://goodereader.com/blog/e-paper...-trend-of-2019



    I'd say it actually proves a lot of various things are easily achievable from an engineering perspective. It's just that, as with all things in life, the majority wants just one simple thing.
    And it certainly proves how important marketing/exposure in press is, no one knew about those phones, no one knew there were smartphones way before iPhone came to the market, no one knew BB was still alive when Priv came out or could understand that it runs Android as any other phone on the market and they could now happily scroll through their precious Facebook and Instagram feeds on it. etc.
    Sounds like an e-ink keyboard would be amazing, but then if they're only marketing the device for NA and European markets they may not need to.
    This is something TCL should have done.

    If Samsung did it in 2009, there's no reason it can't be done now.
    Aesthetically though, matte painted keys probably look nicer than the paper-looking e-ink. Can't have it all I guess. A slider solves that because you wouldn't see the keys unless using them.
    09-06-20 07:14 AM
  20. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Sounds like an e-ink keyboard would be amazing, but then if they're only marketing the device for NA and European markets they may not need to.
    This is something TCL should have done.

    If Samsung did it in 2009, there's no reason it can't be done now.
    Aesthetically though, matte painted keys probably look nicer than the paper-looking e-ink. Can't have it all I guess. A slider solves that because you wouldn't see the keys unless using them.
    I’d suspect they’d already be doing if worth it
    09-06-20 05:08 PM
  21. idssteve's Avatar
    Why would Samsung compete against their own dominance?
    09-06-20 05:17 PM
  22. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Why would Samsung compete against their own dominance?
    If you’re asking me, that’s what I mean. Unless it’s getting me the new increased market share from other different OEMs, there’s no reason to cannibalize existing customers. That’s just wasting limited resources.
    09-06-20 05:26 PM
  23. idssteve's Avatar
    If you’re asking me, that’s what I mean. Unless it’s getting me the new increased market share from other different OEMs, there’s no reason to cannibalize existing customers. That’s just wasting limited resources.
    Possibly sensible to consider for anyone BUT top dog. ?
    09-06-20 05:38 PM

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