09-01-20 06:09 AM
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  1. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    That's my number one gripe with Android in general. The hardware is so dang good on my Samsung S9 and Black Edition BlackBerry KeyOne that I just cannot rationalize nor would I purchase anything new. My Samsung is current, still updated regularly and will receive security patches until 2022. (As a slab prefer the physical size, headjack, LED, and notch/holeless screen) I knew when purchasing my BE it was only going to get 24 mo but figured since BlackBerry took extra steps to secure their version of Android and I am very careful with the apps I use (not many) I am about as safe as anyone else that is mindful. With the Twitter debacle and recent security breach it just goes to show if your important enough nobody is really safe anywhere. The weak link these days is looking like applications and not OS as most of the OS issues are hypothetical issues that would rarely if ever occur in real world usage.
    From what I understand.... your S9 isn't on the Android 11 list ... Samsung is still only promising three years of patches, but I know the S7 that I have got four years of patches and the S8 is now moving beyond three years as well. But that last year it was more quarterly than montly.... but still updates.

    So yeah in a way they are providing great update and patching solution... if you buy their flagship products. Don't go buy an A71 and expect the same treatment, unless it's specifically an Enterprise Model.
    07-21-20 01:28 PM
  2. bh7171's Avatar
    From what I understand.... your S9 isn't on the Android 11 list ... Samsung is still only promising three years of patches, but I know the S7 that I have got four years of patches and the S8 is now moving beyond three years as well. But that last year it was more quarterly than montly.... but still updates.

    So yeah in a way they are providing great update and patching solution... if you buy their flagship products. Don't go buy an A71 and expect the same treatment, unless it's specifically an Enterprise Model.
    Yes as a former Samsung user you are aware that their flagships release with the current Android OS offering for the year of release and receive the next two subsequent OS versions for a total of 3 OS versions. And the S7 and now S8 will receive 4 years of security patches. Monthly for 3 years and quarterly for the 4th year which is perfectly fine. My S9 usually receives the patch from T-Mobile one month in the rear.

    What is somewhat newer and beneficial for Samsung users is their One UI (which I find excellent). My S9 is slated to get version 2.1 shortly. And Samsung being the defacto Android OEM usually has features a year prior to the upcoming OS version, like system wide Dark Mode I had on Pie but was not adopted by Android in general until 10.

    It's not perfect as I would greatly prefer 3 OS version updates (that I believe they will soon adopt if Apple's SE and upcoming SE Plus continue to take a bite out of Android users. Read last night the SE is one of the few sales bright spots for Apple, like the A51 is for Samsung.
    07-21-20 01:47 PM
  3. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    And shareholders most importantly.
    Well definitely that from my perspective and I expect that since it’s their risk capital.

    I suspect as DDD stated, a few OEMs will pull the plug to satisfy their shareholders now.
    07-21-20 02:11 PM
  4. bh7171's Avatar
    Well definitely that from my perspective and I expect that since it’s their risk capital.

    I suspect as DDD stated, a few OEMs will pull the plug to satisfy their shareholders now.
    Yes unless the profit margins are much bigger than the layperson knows. It's not like the form factor or majority of parts are new.

    I recall John Chin saying Chinese manufacturers could produce a modern slab for $75 dollars and that was @ 4-5 years ago.

    Imagine the huge margins on the SE. That tooling and parts have been around for @ 5 years or a little less. It almost exactly fits the mold of what I have discussed in other threads about OEM's producing the same device for more than one year. In this case the form factor goes all the way back to the iPhone 6.
    07-21-20 02:44 PM
  5. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Well definitely that from my perspective and I expect that since it’s their risk capital.

    I suspect as DDD stated, a few OEMs will pull the plug to satisfy their shareholders now.
    I think many have held out hope that eventually they'd capture some of this HUGE smartphone business. Sony made great laptops that earned awards and were sought after, but they just couldn't make money doing it. Not sure their phones were ever as well received.... but bottom line is they haven't made money for years. 2020 is going to be even worse.... but in a way it's also a way to get out without "losing face". They didn't fail,,, COVID did it.


    .
    07-21-20 02:57 PM
  6. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Yes unless the profit margins are much bigger than the layperson knows. It's not like the form factor or majority of parts are new.

    I recall John Chin saying Chinese manufacturers could produce a modern slab for $75 dollars and that was @ 4-5 years ago.

    Imagine the huge margins on the SE. That tooling and parts have been around for @ 5 years or a little less. It almost exactly fits the mold of what I have discussed in other threads about OEM's producing the same device for more than one year. In this case the form factor goes all the way back to the iPhone 6.
    Parts aren't Parts....

    Have not see a tear down or cost estimate for this year's iPhone SE. But I'm sure it's not $75, maybe $175. That would be inline with Apple and Samsung's markups on hardware. Now Chinese players... they work more off $15, $20, $25 a unit with volume. But with volume falling, that's going to need to increase.
    07-21-20 03:38 PM
  7. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    So the numbers are in, it’s a blood bath for a lot OEMs, but Apple, who have seen a big jump in sales thanks to iPhone SE and iPhone 11, their strategy really seems to be working, I can only imagine how much better it would have been without the pandemic...

    iPhone SE contributed 28% of sales while iPhone 11 contributed 40%. Seems pretty clear that not everyone wants a big screen, many were waiting for a small screen phone.

    30% decline for Samsung despite their endless large screened “value” A series models, would have expected them to see sharp sales growth.

    Apple smartphone sales growing strongly as global smartphone market declines in Q2


    https://m.gsmarena.com/iphone_sales_...news-44545.php

    So don’t be surprised at most Android OEMs hitting the panic button, as the situation seems a lot worse than initially thought, this pandemic is really exposing a lot of weaknesses in some company’s business models.
    Last edited by Tsepz_GP; 08-01-20 at 04:39 AM.
    pdr733 and phuoc like this.
    08-01-20 04:24 AM
  8. bh7171's Avatar
    So the numbers are in, it’s a blood bath for a lot OEMs, but Apple, who have seen a big jump in sales thanks to iPhone SE and iPhone 11, their strategy really seems to be working, I can only imagine how much better it would have been without the pandemic...

    iPhone SE contributed 28% of sales while iPhone 11 contributed 40%. Seems pretty clear that not everyone wants a big screen, many were waiting for a small screen phone.

    30% decline for Samsung despite their endless large screened “value” A series models, would have expected them to see sharp sales growth.

    Apple smartphone sales growing strongly as global smartphone market declines in Q2
    [IMG=500x556]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200801/9a79da0b634905a5d987bf4e389dd8bc.jpg[/url]

    https://m.gsmarena.com/iphone_sales_...news-44545.php

    So don’t be surprised at most Android OEMs hitting the panic button, as the situation seems a lot worse than initially thought, this pandemic is really exposing a lot of weaknesses in some company’s business models.
    I hope it forces those that remain to support and update Android devices longer. There is no reason they are not capable of doing so.

    I just picked up a Lenovo C340 Chromebook for 275 dollars for our soon to be 7th grader that will be officially supported until he gets out of High School in 2026. 🤘😎
    Tsepz_GP and phuoc like this.
    08-01-20 12:44 PM
  9. bh7171's Avatar
    Parts aren't Parts....

    Have not see a tear down or cost estimate for this year's iPhone SE. But I'm sure it's not $75, maybe $175. That would be inline with Apple and Samsung's markups on hardware. Now Chinese players... they work more off $15, $20, $25 a unit with volume. But with volume falling, that's going to need to increase.
    Check out Jerry Rig's teardown of the SE. Besides the new chip it's damn near identical to the iPhone 8. Apple is profiting massively on the SE. Brilliant business model.

    Once BlackBerry Mobile and BlackBerry Ltd. had perfected their version of the Key devices that's exactly what I believed they should have done. Just update the SOC. As it is now we will never know. That being said I still enjoy the heck out of the engineering and using my BE version.
    08-01-20 12:50 PM
  10. bh7171's Avatar
    So the numbers are in, it’s a blood bath for a lot OEMs, but Apple, who have seen a big jump in sales thanks to iPhone SE and iPhone 11, their strategy really seems to be working, I can only imagine how much better it would have been without the pandemic...

    iPhone SE contributed 28% of sales while iPhone 11 contributed 40%. Seems pretty clear that not everyone wants a big screen, many were waiting for a small screen phone.

    30% decline for Samsung despite their endless large screened “value” A series models, would have expected them to see sharp sales growth.

    Apple smartphone sales growing strongly as global smartphone market declines in Q2
    [IMG=500x556]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200801/9a79da0b634905a5d987bf4e389dd8bc.jpg[/url]

    https://m.gsmarena.com/iphone_sales_...news-44545.php

    So don’t be surprised at most Android OEMs hitting the panic button, as the situation seems a lot worse than initially thought, this pandemic is really exposing a lot of weaknesses in some company’s business models.
    And conversely will benefit others. Nokia could be onto something with Android One and a low overhead model. I read their new NA sales person noted they are "all in" on the US market and getting back in with carriers. Guess we will see. Low cost, great build and long support seem like a potentially winning combination.

    I expect Motorola/Lenovo to step up here as well.
    08-01-20 12:54 PM
  11. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    I hope it forces those that remain to support and update Android devices longer. There is no reason they are not capable of doing so.

    I just picked up a Lenovo C340 Chromebook for 275 dollars for our soon to be 7th grader that will be officially supported until he gets out of High School in 2026.


    Absolutely agreed! It’s time these OEMs focused more on their existing customers, it will help to better shape their perception of them and to keep them longer.

    I just picked up a 2020 11” iPad Pro with A12Z chip and 6GB RAM, coming from my iPad Air 2 that I got back in 2015, that iPad Air 2 is now running iOS 14 Beta as it is eligible to get the final update in the fall, over 5 years worth of support, so I know my current iPad Pro will easily make it to 2026 with updates, so I simply go back to Apple and I am happy to invest in the ecosystem due to its longevity of support.

    I hope Samsung focus more on this, they are truly capable of building and supporting a robust ecosystem with Google.
    bh7171 likes this.
    08-01-20 12:55 PM
  12. bh7171's Avatar
    So the numbers are in, it’s a blood bath for a lot OEMs, but Apple, who have seen a big jump in sales thanks to iPhone SE and iPhone 11, their strategy really seems to be working, I can only imagine how much better it would have been without the pandemic...

    iPhone SE contributed 28% of sales while iPhone 11 contributed 40%. Seems pretty clear that not everyone wants a big screen, many were waiting for a small screen phone.

    30% decline for Samsung despite their endless large screened “value” A series models, would have expected them to see sharp sales growth.

    Apple smartphone sales growing strongly as global smartphone market declines in Q2
    [IMG=500x556]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200801/9a79da0b634905a5d987bf4e389dd8bc.jpg[/url]

    https://m.gsmarena.com/iphone_sales_...news-44545.php

    So don’t be surprised at most Android OEMs hitting the panic button, as the situation seems a lot worse than initially thought, this pandemic is really exposing a lot of weaknesses in some company’s business models.
    These numbers look strikingly similar to laptop/PC sales with Apple annually less than 20% globally.
    08-01-20 12:56 PM
  13. bh7171's Avatar
    Absolutely agreed! It’s time these OEMs focused more on their existing customers, it will help to better shape their perception of them and to keep them longer.

    I just picked up a 2020 11” iPad Pro with A12Z chip and 6GB RAM, coming from my iPad Air 2 that I got back in 2015, that iPad Air 2 is now running iOS 14 Beta as it is eligible to get the final update in the fall, over 5 years worth of support, so I know my current iPad Pro will easily make it to 2026 with updates, so I simply go back to Apple and I am happy to invest in the ecosystem due to its longevity of support.

    I hope Samsung focus more on this, they are truly capable of building and supporting a robust ecosystem with Google.
    Yes especially with Chromebooks and Windows laptops synergistically speaking.

    REALLY cool how Google and Microsoft are working in conjunction with Android devices.
    08-01-20 01:00 PM
  14. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    These numbers look strikingly similar to laptop/PC sales with Apple annually less than 20% globally.
    Haven’t looked at PC numbers, but seeing how much share Apple has gained in COVID-19 is really striking, considering how much smaller the number of devices they offer is and more expensive the majority of their devices are, I’m surprised that Android OEMs that sell phones that are sub $300 are not seeing growth the way Apple is, it’s crazy.

    This like Porsche gaining market share while Toyota loses it in a recession.

    To top that off Apple do not play the market share game, they are more focused on getting people locked into to the ecosystem, they releases an SE once every 3-4 years it seems, their timing was perfect with this one. In actual fact the more expensive iPhone 11 takes the bulk of sales which is even mire more mind blowing
    08-01-20 01:02 PM
  15. bh7171's Avatar
    Haven’t looked at PC numbers, but seeing how much share Apple has gained in COVID-19 is really striking, considering how much smaller the number of devices they offer is and more expensive the majority of their devices are, I’m surprised that Android OEMs that sell phones that are sub $300 are not seeing growth the way Apple is, it’s crazy.

    This like Porsche gaining market share while Toyota loses it in a recession.

    To top that off Apple do not play the market share game, they are more focused on getting people locked into to the ecosystem, they releases an SE once every 3-4 years it seems, their timing was perfect with this one.
    Apple's sales drivers are the "Corollas" of their line up. The SE is free or @ 99 dollars on carrier deals. The 11 is BOGO at others. NO DOUBT Apple's strategy with these devices are winning. Android HAS to step up support or these #'s for Apple will continue trending upward at least here in NA.
    08-01-20 01:06 PM
  16. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    Apple's sales drivers are the "Corollas" of their line up. The SE is free or @ 99 dollars on carrier deals. The 11 is BOGO at others. NO DOUBT Apple's strategy with these devices are winning. Android HAS to step up support or these #'s for Apple will continue trending upward at least here in NA.
    What is the price difference between the 11 and SE compared to their competitors?

    Down here in South Africa the iPhone SE competitors are still half the price of the cheapest model even on the best deals. The Huawei P40 Lite I have for review and Galaxy A31 are about $310 less than the cheapest SE, even more with the 11.
    08-01-20 01:15 PM
  17. pdr733's Avatar
    What is the price difference between the 11 and SE compared to their competitors?

    Down here in South Africa the iPhone SE competitors are still half the price of the cheapest model even on the best deals. The Huawei P40 Lite I have for review and Galaxy A31 are about $310 less than the cheapest SE, even more with the 11.
    Well dont know what is considered close competitor of the SE. I am familiar with the pricing of my own country (non Eurozone EU) and Austria, where I used to buy electronics when its cheaper. In Austria the base model SE is € 469 (can be had a bit cheaper but this seems to be the price what most of the big retailers are using), while the Samsung A71 [which I arbitrarily chosen as a reference] is € 379. In my own country, the SE has the same price as in Austria (converted to €), while the Samsung is almost the same as the iphone [samsungs, for some reason, tend to be overpriced here compared to their prices prevailing in W Europe]

    On the other hand, carrier subsidies (they exist, but generally are not a lot) are much more on Samsung devices than on Apple ones. On the most expensive plan my own carrier has, the A71 is free, while the new SE still costs like 100 euro

    NB. these prices as customary in Europe, already include taxes
    Tsepz_GP likes this.
    08-02-20 05:18 AM
  18. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    Your comment makes a lot of sense Pdr, as can be seen below it seems Samsung has lost a chunk of sales this year,the only device they have in the top 10 list for H1 2020 is the Galaxy A51, all their other phones simply did not sell enough to make it in, they seem to be facing fierce competition from Apple and Xiaomi:



    https://stuff.co.za/2020/09/01/apple...erable-margin/

    Incredible how Apple has their 2 most expensive models (11 Pro and 11 Pro Max) in the top 10 sales considering the situation we are in right now,people still want these phones.

    Xiaomi is looking poised to takeover where Huawei has left off.
    09-01-20 06:09 AM
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