11-06-09 07:06 PM
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  1. Radius's Avatar
    I'm going to promote this. RIM just has to come out with a single device that will allow developers to get their stuff together and create it and support it for one device; not 20. I'm even getting confused over all the blackberry models that are getting released. I just want them to come out with one solid device and call it a day. Will RIM listen to these requests from their consumers? I'm willing to bet no. If blackberry hasn't been my comfort level for the last 5 years, I would be gone by now.
    The primary reason for so many devices in each family is not RIM's doing but the carriers for the most part. The carriers each have their own requirements like CDMA/GSM, Wi-Fi. etc. So it creates a bit of a headache and to separate these they just call them different models.

    One device is not the solution either, and it is not the solution Apple will stick with. If you really want a fair comparison then compare them to Nokia or some other long term manufacturer. How many models doe sSony have for instance?

    Companies like Apple are babies in the market, they only have one or two devices because that's all they've had time to make. I have to wonder, in 5 years do you really think the only thing Apple will produce is the same iPhone?

    I'm willing to bet there will be new models all over the place with more advanced OS's to boot that won't be compatible with what's out there already. RIM has done nothing wrong and is just covering the market like all others before and after them will.
    11-05-09 12:28 PM
  2. larrytxeast's Avatar
    Palm did good with WebOS, just not a good enough looking phone to use it on.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I know I'm probably the only person that feels this (at least ones not age 60 or above anyway--I'm 40), but personally, I don't care a whit what a phone looks like. It is absolutely the least relevant thing to me about the device. Much as is the case with cars, I think appearance is extremely overrated. That's why I got so tired, as a former AT&T call center representative, hearing 85% of people who called in asking about their freaking Motorola Razr. Who cares a fig what it LOOKS like? It's a phone, not a woman in a bathing suit.

    I don't know where the smartphone market is heading, but I sure hope the iPhone mentality isn't driving it. So busy on focusing on eye-candy they were, it took them 2 years to get copy & paste (and MMS, although I have no use for MMS personally.) It still doesn't let you change your own battery, either, and you STILL have to use iTunes to do anything with it.

    Don't get me wrong, I use my Blackberry Bold for such "fun" things as (say) watching video clips of "Sanford and Son" on it (converted from DVD to MPEG4 with Handbrake). But I personally like Blackberry's "boring" and all-business OS interface. To load the videos and MP3s--and ringtones--just like with a USB flash drive, it was a matter of simply plugging it in and dragging-dropping. (If I removed the microSD card I wouldn't have even needed the Desktop Manager either.) The 3.5mm standardized headphone jack, standard 5-pin USB mini connection, user-replaceable battery (yet with it still having a slick backplate), a real physical QWERTY keyboard you can actually get a feel for, and the straightforwardness--it just makes sense. It's practical, and that to me is EVERYTHING. I don't care for "eye candy," that's what the scenery of a swimming hole in summertime is for.
    11-05-09 01:00 PM
  3. fabuloso's Avatar
    I know I'm probably the only person that feels this (at least ones not age 60 or above anyway--I'm 40), but personally, I don't care a whit what a phone looks like. It is absolutely the least relevant thing to me about the device. Much as is the case with cars, I think appearance is extremely overrated. That's why I got so tired, as a former AT&T call center representative, hearing 85% of people who called in asking about their freaking Motorola Razr. Who cares a fig what it LOOKS like? It's a phone, not a woman in a bathing suit.

    I don't know where the smartphone market is heading, but I sure hope the iPhone mentality isn't driving it. So busy on focusing on eye-candy they were, it took them 2 years to get copy & paste (and MMS, although I have no use for MMS personally.) It still doesn't let you change your own battery, either, and you STILL have to use iTunes to do anything with it.

    Don't get me wrong, I use my Blackberry Bold for such "fun" things as (say) watching video clips of "Sanford and Son" on it (converted from DVD to MPEG4 with Handbrake). But I personally like Blackberry's "boring" and all-business OS interface. To load the videos and MP3s--and ringtones--just like with a USB flash drive, it was a matter of simply plugging it in and dragging-dropping. (If I removed the microSD card I wouldn't have even needed the Desktop Manager either.) The 3.5mm standardized headphone jack, standard 5-pin USB mini connection, user-replaceable battery (yet with it still having a slick backplate), a real physical QWERTY keyboard you can actually get a feel for, and the straightforwardness--it just makes sense. It's practical, and that to me is EVERYTHING. I don't care for "eye candy," that's what the scenery of a swimming hole in summertime is for.
    I agree, look at the MotoDroid!

    My only argument with Pre is its slides out, and small keyboard (very small compared to my gorilla hands). The Bold was perfect for me. Other than that, if it would have been made to something similar to the Storm or the Droid, it would had much more success as far as usability. I can't type of that damn little thing. Just look at my hands! **just sparked an idea to make a thread about how big your hands are to your BB*



    To back on topic, RIM will eventually come around with newer OS's and better usability for all types of consumers. I just hope it happens fast. I'd hate to be the one to leave BB for something like the Droid.
    Last edited by fabuloso; 11-05-09 at 01:41 PM.
    11-05-09 01:34 PM
  4. Radius's Avatar
    I hated the Pre keyboard/slide thing. The top row of keys is too close to the rim of the phone and it's hard to get my thumbs up there when typing quickly.
    11-05-09 02:01 PM
  5. Fuzzballz's Avatar
    RIM makes really attractive, useful hardware. They need some software devs.
    11-05-09 03:18 PM
  6. BzB's Avatar
    RIM doesn't need the consumer market to survive. They aren't going anywhere with the share of the corporate market that they rightfully command. The consumer market is RIM's growth strategy and not their survival strategy.
    i don't agree. the consumer market and the corporate market are converging very fast. rim's share of the corporate market is locked in right now due to bes licensing and support contracts. toss in devices and bes administration and it's a very pricey model.

    aside from the government sector and some super secure corporations, i don't think most businesses need the type of security and administrative control the bes model provides.

    a lot of it managers are trimming costs/overhead as well as taking advantage of services like active sync. some local governments and businesses are even migrating to free based services like google or low cost services like yahoo business. since many of the newer smart phones provide similar connectivity for the mobile workforce, rim won't be able to survive on the corporate market alone much longer. just watch...
    11-05-09 03:23 PM
  7. mciriello's Avatar
    Corporate IT is certainly not my area of expertise but it seems as though RIM has the market pretty well locked down because BES is proven and realtively easy to administer. You make some good points that I hadn't realized.

    i don't agree. the consumer market and the corporate market are converging very fast. rim's share of the corporate market is locked in right now due to bes licensing and support contracts. toss in devices and bes administration and it's a very pricey model.

    aside from the government sector and some super secure corporations, i don't think most businesses need the type of security and administrative control the bes model provides.

    a lot of it managers are trimming costs/overhead as well as taking advantage of services like active sync. some local governments and businesses are even migrating to free based services like google or low cost services like yahoo business. since many of the newer smart phones provide similar connectivity for the mobile workforce, rim won't be able to survive on the corporate market alone much longer. just watch...
    11-05-09 03:26 PM
  8. cenloe's Avatar
    RIM makes really attractive, useful hardware. They need some software devs.
    I agree, thats why I've stayed with them for almost two years now. The device does almost everything I want it to but Im hoping that they finally fix the OS.
    11-05-09 04:09 PM
  9. Radius's Avatar
    I agree, thats why I've stayed with them for almost two years now. The device does almost everything I want it to but Im hoping that they finally fix the OS.
    I still don't get the whole "fix" thing. Fix what? It actually works and works well.
    11-05-09 04:17 PM
  10. xxxxpradaxxxx's Avatar
    The OS is as "fixed" as it can be. (Aside from the storms).

    They just need to completely revamp it, and start fresh.

    A-La-WebOs
    11-05-09 04:32 PM
  11. dasdas1's Avatar
    Another article along these lines was posted on Silicon Valley Insider a few days ago by Dan Frommer.

    It's time for BlackBerry maker Research In Motion (RIMM) to find a buyer -- before it's too late.

    RIM revolutionized email-and-Internet on the go, for which a generation of executives will always be grateful. It has also built a big, profitable business selling BlackBerry devices and email services to corporations.

    But while the smartphone industry is still growing rapidly, RIM's relative strength within it is fading.

    From here on in, we think it will be mostly downhill for RIM. So now is a great time to sell.

    The full article is posted on businessinsider.com. I haven't been here long enough to post links but to find it you can Google for: rim sell now frommer

    The crux of his argument:

    Why is RIM's position getting weaker?

    The growth in the smartphone market is now shifting toward consumers, not corporations. (Even 80% of RIM's new subscriber accounts were "non-enterprise" last quarter.)

    RIM's strength is the enterprise, not the consumer. RIM is not a technology or design leader for consumer-focused smartphone hardware or software.

    RIM's competitors are coming up fast. Apple is gaining market share and Google's Android is stealing favor from carriers, which are RIM's most important customers.

    Even corporate customers are starting to jettison BlackBerries for iPhones.

    Smartphones are becoming a platform business in which third-party developers rule the day. RIM is way behind Apple and, soon, Google in app development
    11-05-09 04:57 PM
  12. jontekle's Avatar
    i love rim and blackberries...one of the top phones in my opinion
    11-05-09 05:44 PM
  13. CGI's Avatar
    Great article!

    If I wasn't on a corporate phone I'd be very intrigued by the Droid.

    RIM is a lost company right now. Look no further than the 9700. What the **** is that device? A Bold? Really?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-05-09 08:40 PM
  14. DGBMW11's Avatar
    I'm not sure about RIM being lost, me and 4 or 5 of my friends just bought our first BlackBerries (mine being an 8900). We are college students and have no use for the enterprise service at all, but we all chose them based on the texting and application factor. BlackBerries are still very desirable phones!
    11-05-09 08:52 PM
  15. armedtank's Avatar
    Corporate IT is certainly not my area of expertise but it seems as though RIM has the market pretty well locked down because BES is proven and realtively easy to administer. You make some good points that I hadn't realized.
    Rim HAD the market locked down, because they were the first to do truly secure Enterprise messaging. While they are still arguably the most secure, every other major platform does enterprise messaging now, and a lot of them implement it better than RIM without dedicated hardware. BES is not difficult to administer in relatively small shops, but a company with 500+ employees will definitely need a dedicated BES admin to keep everything running smoothly. Add to that licensing fees and dedicated hardware in larger shops and the cost is many thousands of dollars for a robust BES implementation. Exchange and Lotus Notes the two major player in Enterprise messaging now have clients that can do all that BES does for far less. RIM still has top notch security and for companies where the information just cannot get out, they are still the way to go.........
    11-05-09 09:02 PM
  16. rizzzzoooo's Avatar
    We have no fart apps, so in essence, it makes sense why we don't have as many as Apple numbers.

    The apple app store contains 80,000 plus apps because of the amount of redundancy among them. If RIM had 30 plus apps for farting, 30 plus for IMing, 30 plus for hangman, etc etc, they too would have thousands of apps by year's end.
    11-05-09 10:11 PM
  17. dj2big's Avatar
    I agree RIM does have to step up. If RIM does not want to loose there seat as the leader of smart phones they do need to step up. I think that they have taken a step into a universal OS we just have not scene it. I am sure it is in development in som RIM lab somewhere. I see my self moving to a 5th gen iphone or a 3rd gen android with in the next 20 months. I think android is going to be the best platform worldwide.
    11-05-09 10:33 PM
  18. RushTheBus's Avatar
    Well, if it makes anyone feel any better...CX has made mention before that 2010 is going to shape up to be a big year for RIM. Not sure what that means, but i'm confident hes right.
    11-05-09 10:46 PM
  19. Fuzzballz's Avatar
    the BB app store already has like 5 fart apps.

    Why are there so many fart apps? I don't understand. I could see maybe one free one as a joke you install then get bored with and uninstall, but do people really pay money for this stuff?
    11-05-09 11:34 PM
  20. o0stryxs0o's Avatar
    The consumer market is opening up for smart phones because of the crappy phones that are being called smart phones! They can surf the net so now they are smart phones? The cell phone industry has no solid direction right now! It doesn't know where its going in the future and the developers are telling people what they want out of a phone instead of the consumer. The average consumer for a cell phone has very little understand of what they are doing when it comes to choosing a phone and understand features and potential. As long as RIM is making some of the most expensive phones out, they will sell because the sales men enjoy that high commission. Us here on Crackberry understand a lot about phones and smartphones at that. There are millions upon millions of people who have no clue and just ask the store guy or get what's cheapest or just buy what they saw there friends with.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-06-09 03:49 AM
  21. Fuzzballz's Avatar
    There are millions upon millions of people who have no clue
    True, and keep in mind that the average user of a blackberry just does email, phone calls, maybe text messaging, and that's it. That's pretty low-end for what these phones can do.

    So RIM has nice hardware, like I've said, but it's been totally surprised in the past 2 years or so by a dramatic surge in advanced phones and high end media usage.

    RIM's core user is still the 50 year old dude whose company handed him a phone and who wouldn't know what an "app store" is anyway. It doesn't surprise me that RIM's phones are, internally at least, still last-gen.
    11-06-09 03:53 AM
  22. Radius's Avatar
    RIM's core user is still the 50 year old dude whose company handed him a phone and who wouldn't know what an "app store" is anyway. It doesn't surprise me that RIM's phones are, internally at least, still last-gen.
    Their core users are the ones who needs extremely high security like military, CIA, government officials, etc.
    11-06-09 11:16 AM
  23. Hankster's Avatar
    Us here on Crackberry understand a lot about phones and smartphones at that.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    HAA HAA HAA HAA! Sorry, you must be reading different posts than me...
    11-06-09 01:18 PM
  24. Radius's Avatar
    HAA HAA HAA HAA! Sorry, you must be reading different posts than me...
    Agreed 100%.
    11-06-09 02:42 PM
  25. TBacker's Avatar
    RIM is afraid to start over on the OS - afraid they'll p1ss off their 10 year devotees who hate change, afraid they'll break the security that they're famous for, afraid to loose the position they have even if it's crumbling underneath them.

    What they need to do is:

    - Throw out what they have except the core of secure database and messaging, then rebuild a universal access layer for any apps to securely access it (API)

    - Build in a layer between the hardware and apps that presents a standard API to the apps regardless of the underlying hardware (abstraction). Right now I think the third party apps have to be rewritten to every model.

    - Build a universal graphics engine that can use whatever hardware is available, including acceleration hardware. Once again, developers would have a device independent interface for their apps to use.

    - Build a universal shell that different GUI's can be run on.

    - Include the "Classic OS" GUI for the devotees, but allow third parties to develop plug-in GUI's that can take full advantage of the display, hardware, and databases.

    Bottom line - it's a lot of work, so it'll happen only when some venture capitalist buys RIM after they go bankrupt from complacency.

    Sorry - that was building for a while
    11-06-09 06:30 PM
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