Has BlackBerry sold its soul to the devil?
- Are you seriously advocating BB creates a compiler that redirects GPS API calls to it's own services? Nothing, legally speaking, could possibly go wrong with that, tight?12-18-15 02:32 PMLike 0
- Not too mention your service would have to spoof an authentic Google Play Services verification check from the app trying to run.12-18-15 02:55 PMLike 0
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I don't know if this is realistic or not.12-18-15 03:03 PMLike 0 - Not realistic at all. The massive complexity of that code generator, not compiler, is staggering. It would need to be able to analyze the API call, the API response and how that response is treated inside the app. Which may or may not be close to the actual call. It can't be automatic. It can't be flawless. At most, the compiler can flag calls to the GPS API and error out the compile. It is then up to the programmer to modify the code to the BB API. Any way you cut it, you have 2 version of the source code. The only way to not have that is for the BB API to be completely compatible with the GPS API, both input and responses. And that is reverse engineering a computer system and a violation of copyright.12-18-15 03:15 PMLike 0
- Not realistic at all. The massive complexity of that code generator, not compiler, is staggering. It would need to be able to analyze the API call, the API response and how that response is treated inside the app. Which may or may not be close to the actual call. It can't be automatic. It can't be flawless. At most, the compiler can flag calls to the GPS API and error out the compile. It is then up to the programmer to modify the code to the BB API. Any way you cut it, you have 2 version of the source code. The only way to not have that is for the BB API to be completely compatible with the GPS API, both input and responses. And that is reverse engineering a computer system and a violation of copyright.12-18-15 03:24 PMLike 0
- All of them. BB has 3 choices.
1) Make their APIs absolute duplicates of GPS, name, arguments, everything.
2) Make their APIs functional duplicates. Different name but same arguments, returns, etc.
3) Create a new library of APIs that can duplicate the functionality but are not the same.
1 requires no change in the code.
2 requires a slight change, as in wherever the compiler sees GPSAPIx, change it to BBAPIx.
Both of those land them in legal trouble because it requires reverse engineering what the API does.
the third option requires a lot of manual change in the code because the name of the API is different, the input arguments are different and the returned results must be different. Essentially a BB10 version of the code.
1 and 2 also require BB to very quickly react to Google making changes to their APIs.12-18-15 03:42 PMLike 0 - All of them. BB has 3 choices.
1) Make their APIs absolute duplicates of GPS, name, arguments, everything.
2) Make their APIs functional duplicates. Different name but same arguments, returns, etc.
3) Create a new library of APIs that can duplicate the functionality but are not the same.
1 requires no change in the code.
2 requires a slight change, as in wherever the compiler sees GPSAPIx, change it to BBAPIx.
Both of those land them in legal trouble because it requires reverse engineering what the API does.
the third option requires a lot of manual change in the code because the name of the API is different, the input arguments are different and the returned results must be different. Essentially a BB10 version of the code.
1 and 2 also require BB to very quickly react to Google making changes to their APIs.12-18-15 03:45 PMLike 0 -
This is why Oracle vs. Google was such a big deal. We will see what happens with fair use in the lower court.12-18-15 06:21 PMLike 0 - I didn't think there was anything wrong with reverse engineering per se. The problem would be if the BB version re-used any copyrighted code.
The way you avoid that is, I believe, referred to as clean-room reverse engineering? I may have the terminology wrong but essentially you have team A who does all the reverse engineering. They take the target OS / software / API apart, figure it out completely, inside out, and document everything absolutely and completely. And then team A is finished.
Team B gets the documentation and nothing more. They then write the new OS / software / API from scratch, designing it to fit the documentation they were given. Nobody from team A works with team B. There is no code exchanged.
In the end you get a new, 'clean' piece of software that does not violate copyright, but is functionally equivalent to the original.
The challenges are that 1) it's really expensive and time consuming to do this and you never know if it's 100% compatible with every single edge case, and 2) Team A can't break any laws (eg. dcma, decryption, etc) in their discovery / reverse engineering. And finally 3) it doesn't guarantee you won't get sued, only that you'll have a good defence when you do.
So, reverse engineering itself is not illegal. Just, doing it correctly is time consuming and expensive.JeepBB likes this.12-18-15 08:31 PMLike 1 - I was somewhat reserved about buying the Priv after watching how android apps start controlling people's phones all on their own.
Keeping my Passport as a backup I decided to buy the Priv to try it out. I have to say that BlackBerry seems to keep android disciplined and buttery smooth. The torch with an attitude, you WILL love this device!
I might be on my Passport, or I might be on my Priv. Either way, I'm up to my knees in BlackBerry JUICE!12-18-15 08:36 PMLike 0 - Prem WatsAppCrackBerry Jester of JestersI was somewhat reserved about buying the Priv after watching how android apps start controlling people's phones all on their own.
Keeping my Passport as a backup I decided to buy the Priv to try it out. I have to say that BlackBerry seems to keep android disciplined and buttery smooth. The torch with an attitude, you WILL love this device!
I might be on my Passport, or I might be on my Priv. Either way, I'm up to my knees in BlackBerry JUICE!
� There's a Crack in the Berry right now... �12-18-15 11:30 PMLike 0 - Even less expensive if in Oracle vs. Google, Google wins on fair use. If the goal is provide alternative services from third parties a mostly new API would be required and no reverse engineering would be needed.
Last edited by DonHB; 12-18-15 at 11:48 PM.
12-18-15 11:31 PMLike 0 - How do you think the IBM BIOS was cloned? And no, the issue of verification check is not an issue. He is talking about using alternate services libraries. Perhaps a situation where the device owner decides what service provider to use outside the app.
This is why Oracle vs. Google was such a big deal. We will see what happens with fair use in the lower court.
BlackBerry Priv with CrackBerry App for AndroidJeepBB likes this.12-19-15 09:44 PMLike 1 -
The two situations are about as far away as it's possible to be. IBM wanted the BIOS "out there", so they could sell more stuff off the back of it. Google don't want GPS used by anyone who isn't a member of their cosy OHA club and will use their corporate might to protect their rights.
GPS will never, ever, not-in-a-billion-years, come to BB10. He'll won't just freeze over the day that happens, it'll become the #1 winter sports venue.
If you want GPS, buy a Priv (or any other Android handset).12-20-15 03:01 AMLike 0 - I have used 9900, Lenovo, Q10, Passport and again Q10! Before Priv I was having Passport for my communication and Emails and Q10 Gold for voice calls. Then BlackBerry has launched Priv and I was so inspired by Priv hardware and I bought Priv powered by Android!
OS comparison
BB10 is so powerful and secure Os as compare to Android. I never have complaint off apps! My necessary apps were there and five email accounts worked smoothly for 16 month.
Priv with Android
Priv hardware is very well built and again BlackBerry think out of box and made slider...perfect in every angle. Screen, battery and built quality even PKB very smooth.
Such a shame Priv launched with Android, so buggy and Un professional, so afraid to downloads any app (which usually need all permissions). Difficult to access many thing and your productivity is gone! Yeah Android is good for gaming things.
BlackBerry has sold loyalists to Android same like Hotmail sold us to Facebook and many other companies. NOW WHEN BLACKBERRY HAS SOLD HIS SOUL TO DEVIL IT WILL FLOURISH AGAIN AND BB10 SHALL BE DEDICATED TO LAW ENFORCEMENT AND GOVERNMENT (SAID BY CHEN). WAR AGAINST BLACKBERRY IS OVER NOW! DEVIL IS SUCCESSFUL AS USUAL!
Posted by Priv12-20-15 05:01 AMLike 0 - The two situations are about as far away as it's possible to be. IBM wanted the BIOS "out there", so they could sell more stuff off the back of it. Google don't want GPS used by anyone who isn't a member of their cosy OHA club and will use their corporate might to protect their rights.
GPS will never, ever, not-in-a-billion-years, come to BB10. He'll won't just freeze over the day that happens, it'll become the #1 winter sports venue.12-20-15 07:41 PMLike 0 - I wonder what Blackberry and Google exchanged between them, outside the availability of Play Store and Play Services in Priv ....12-21-15 10:47 AMLike 0
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- I don't know what posts you are reading but It cant possibly be mine.
Since I am so un-informed can you provide some proof that counters my opinions? You are saying that Google is not hindering competition? They don't saturate the market and make it difficult for new competition?
Its like arguing with a cat in a santa suit....12-21-15 11:02 AMLike 0 - 12-21-15 11:05 AMLike 2
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Has BlackBerry sold its soul to the devil?
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