04-05-14 05:25 PM
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  1. RyanGermann's Avatar
    The one thought that came to mind while reading these posts involves apps. How many app developers are unwilling to create for BB10 if the permissions can be turned off? If you are a developer relying upon generating income from tracking your users, BB10 could limit your possibilities.
    When I'm installing Android ports on my Z30 and see that while Android tells you what ways your private data will be traded and sold, BlackBerry lets you disable those aspects... which makes me think that when BB10 gets a bit more market share they're going to fight tooth-and-nail to stop this from working: if you turn off any kind of data gathering in an app, the whole app won't function.

    I don't mind some of my personal online behavior being sold: what is the most offensive thing to me is that I don't get a cut of the proceeds. Google and FaceBook both make huge fortunes off of the work of others (what would Google be without a bunch of web pages made by non-Google employees that Google could index? Not much, as only their search ads make them any money.)

    The more I think about Google the more I think that their late '90's "don't be evil" corporate mantra has pretty much completely gone down the pooper, and they're just "evil" now.
    The Big Picture likes this.
    03-14-14 02:54 PM
  2. TgeekB's Avatar
    When I'm installing Android ports on my Z30 and see that while Android tells you what ways your private data will be traded and sold, BlackBerry lets you disable those aspects... which makes me think that when BB10 gets a bit more market share they're going to fight tooth-and-nail to stop this from working: if you turn off any kind of data gathering in an app, the whole app won't function.

    I don't mind some of my personal online behavior being sold: what is the most offensive thing to me is that I don't get a cut of the proceeds. Google and FaceBook both make huge fortunes off of the work of others (what would Google be without a bunch of web pages made by non-Google employees that Google could index? Not much, as only their search ads make them any money.)

    The more I think about Google the more I think that their late '90's "don't be evil" corporate mantra has pretty much completely gone down the pooper, and they're just "evil" now.
    And your bank uses your money to give out loans, invest, and make a profit. You get little or nothing from it. I get much more from Google than my bank.

    Posted via my Nexus 10.
    pankaler, mornhavon and febo2175 like this.
    03-14-14 03:20 PM
  3. byex's Avatar
    Probably because he broke the law and instead of owning up to it (even though he has such great morals and convictions) he's running from the sentence he knew he would incur.

    It's easy to take a stand when you are out of reach of the consequences.

    *This is in no way a judgement on the actual value of his information leaks and their moral right/wrongness as it pertains to the greater good.*
    Agreed he broke some laws. I don't think anyone would or should disagree with that. He disclosed information showing how the state was breaking laws. The state or agencies haven't faced any consequences.

    If it were not for people like him breaking laws we would not know how deeply our state run agencies are breaking laws also.

    Posted via CB10
    03-14-14 05:27 PM
  4. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    I don't mind some of my personal online behavior being sold: what is the most offensive thing to me is that I don't get a cut of the proceeds.
    The "proceeds" are all of the "free" Google services that are available to you, should you choose to use them.

    Google has spent tens of billions making these services. Google's maps alone are better than the maps from any other source, are available world-wide, and cost you NOTHING to use. You can even make custom versions for yourself, or edit the maps yourself to add/correct missing/incorrect features. With Google Drive, you have a full office suite of apps, along with integrated cloud storage, that are available on almost every platform (PC, Mac, Linux, iOS, Android). With Google+ Photos, you can store an unlimited number of photos (up to 2048x2048), and share them (or not) as you like, completely for free. It doesn't even use your free 15GB data allocation, unless you upload full-size pics greater than 2048. And let's not forget Gmail, or Google Now. Hundreds of millions of people rely on these services every single day, to run their business, do their schoolwork, or just share things with friends. And it's all paid for because Google can show those folks links to ads that they might actually care about. Oh, the horror!
    03-14-14 06:00 PM
  5. Wiki Cydia's Avatar
    Agreed he broke some laws. I don't think anyone would or should disagree with that. He disclosed information showing how the state was breaking laws. The state or agencies haven't faced any consequences.

    If it were not for people like him breaking laws we would not know how deeply our state run agencies are breaking laws also.

    Posted via CB10
    Fair point. But wouldn't the government agencies make a similar argument? "Sure, we might be stepping all over certain civil liberties, but this is the only way to stop the terrorists from killing our people." That's essentially what you're describing.

    But why stop there? Many of those same terrorists would use the same argument, wouldn't they? They might say something like "It's not our desire to kill people. . . we kill because we want the U.S. to stop killing our people." In other words, if Snowden's actions are justified because they expose other lawbreakers (U.S. gov't), then those other lawbreakers are arguably justified as well. And if the U.S. gov't is justified, next up will be the terrorists that attack this country because they believe this country wages a war on Islam (even though Islamic believers are far more welcome here than, say, Jews or Christians would be in Islamic countries, but that's neither here nor there).

    Put simply, be very careful with the "breaking laws is the only way to expose other people who break laws" argument. It won't stop with Snowden.
    kbz1960 likes this.
    03-14-14 07:02 PM
  6. RyanGermann's Avatar
    The "proceeds" are all of the "free" Google services that are available to you, should you choose to use them.
    <snif>Google is... so... noble for doing this... excuse me... I have something in my eye. Google makes billions of dollars on the backs of honest businesses with clickfraud and they don't do nearly enough to prevent it. With all the R&D investments they're making in ways to put more ads in front of clickers (read: web survers) eyeballs, you think they could do more to improve the ROI on their ad network... but then again, Google has no incentive to do that. They actually have a disincentive to do that.

    Google has spent tens of billions making these services.
    ...and made multiple billions more in profits piling up in the bank. I am so completely unable to feel any sympathy or thanks for Google. They're a business, and arguably an unethical one.

    Google's maps alone are better than the maps from any other source, are available world-wide, and cost you NOTHING to use.
    If "you" aren't an advertiser, yes, it costs nothing: I liken Google to those swindlers you'd hear about that transferred $.03 out of the bank account of every customer of a bank and made themselves rich; Google does that to businesses with all the clickfraud they are party to.

    You can even make custom versions for yourself, or edit the maps yourself to add/correct missing/incorrect features.
    There I go welling up again: Google does all of this to enrich themselves. Period.

    With Google Drive, you have a full office suite of apps, along with integrated cloud storage, that are available on almost every platform (PC, Mac, Linux, iOS, Android). With Google+ Photos, you can store an unlimited number of photos (up to 2048x2048), and share them (or not) as you like, completely for free. It doesn't even use your free 15GB data allocation, unless you upload full-size pics greater than 2048. And let's not forget Gmail, or Google Now. Hundreds of millions of people rely on these services every single day, to run their business, do their schoolwork, or just share things with friends. And it's all paid for because Google can show those folks links to ads that they might actually care about. Oh, the horror!
    Oh, the kool-aid.
    03-14-14 08:51 PM
  7. extisis's Avatar
    Google = NSA that profits
    03-15-14 01:23 AM
  8. Kaye_max008's Avatar
    Uhm I like my Z10.

    Z10 10.2.1.2102
    03-15-14 03:38 AM
  9. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    <snif>Google is... so... noble for doing this... excuse me... I have something in my eye. Google makes billions of dollars on the backs of honest businesses with clickfraud and they don't do nearly enough to prevent it. With all the R&D investments they're making in ways to put more ads in front of clickers (read: web survers) eyeballs, you think they could do more to improve the ROI on their ad network... but then again, Google has no incentive to do that. They actually have a disincentive to do that.
    Which is why everyone has abandoned Google as an advertising platform, right? Or, are you going to tell me that Google puts a gun to their head and forces businesses to advertise using Google?

    ..and made multiple billions more in profits piling up in the bank. I am so completely unable to feel any sympathy or thanks for Google. They're a business, and arguably an unethical one.
    Heaven forbid a business actually makes a profit. You've never owned a business, have you?

    If "you" aren't an advertiser, yes, it costs nothing: I liken Google to those swindlers you'd hear about that transferred $.03 out of the bank account of every customer of a bank and made themselves rich; Google does that to businesses with all the clickfraud they are party to.
    Again, this is obviously so wide-spread that businesses are abandoning Google ads, right? Or, are you just making wild exaggerations?

    There I go welling up again: Google does all of this to enrich themselves. Period.
    I suppose you prefer Communism?

    Oh, the kool-aid.
    I agree. You'll have to tell me how it tastes once you finish chugging yours down.

    I don't even understand why you care if other people choose to use Google. No one is forcing you to use them, after all. But framing Google as evil because they dare to turn a profit in a (relatively) free market is just laughable.
    03-15-14 05:07 AM
  10. CHIP72's Avatar
    To the OP - I own and have used a pair of iOS smartphones (Apple iPhone 4 and Apple iPhone 5) and a pair of Android smartphones (Motorola Droid 2 and Samsung Galaxy Nexus). (I also own and have used a pair of Blackberry smartphones and a pair of Windows Phones as well.) Between my iOS and Android (and Blackberry and WP) devices, I've probably spent less than $10 total on apps.

    Just because companies are encouraging you to buy apps doesn't mean you actually have to purchase them. I don't buy everything I see in TV commercials either (actually, I tend to mentally tune out TV commercials, much like I mentally tune out or close the windows for mobile phone advertisements).
    03-15-14 07:34 AM
  11. CHIP72's Avatar
    RyanGermann - what are your thoughts about freely available commercial TV or radio stations playing commercials? Are those TV and radio stations, which provide programming that you may enjoy and that is freely available to you, bad because they are trying to make money through getting advertisers to pay them? Are you forced to buy everything that is advertised on freely available commercial TV and radio stations?

    Come on - Google's business model allows people to access (some) desirable products for free, just like those commercial, over-the-air TV and radio stations. I think most people like free, and aren't complaining about being able to access Google Maps or Angry Birds or whatever ad-supported product they enjoy using and can freely obtain.
    pantlesspenguin likes this.
    03-15-14 07:42 AM
  12. reeneebob's Avatar
    If you wanted to go see a favorite band in concert wouldn't you just be inclined to look up their tour dates on their website?
    I've followed Duran Duran for 32 years and guess what? I appreciate when I get a notification they've announced a tour date.

    It's far more convenient than having to remember to regularly check a site just in case.

    Crackberry, the only place where convenience is frowned upon.
    03-15-14 07:52 AM
  13. reeneebob's Avatar
    Oh, I'm also not arrogant enough to think I'm so important that anyone at Googles HO cares where I am at any given time.

    I keep my nose clean and live by the law. I don't live in fear or paranoia that some corporation gives a rats behind about where I am. I just read this paranoia and think "I'm so glad I don't live in such a perpetual state of fear".
    03-15-14 07:59 AM
  14. kbz1960's Avatar
    OP. I just got a Z30. There are plenty of apps I looked at that have advertisement in them and in app purchases. I guess they have caught up in that respect.
    pantlesspenguin likes this.
    03-15-14 08:49 AM
  15. vrud's Avatar
    Oh, I'm also not arrogant enough to think I'm so important that anyone at Googles HO cares where I am at any given time.
    If only those victim teenagers were of the same opinion ... then google wouldn't have to fire its own employees for spying on private information (link).

    An interesting observation is that google assumes they have exclusive rights for personal data.
    When an android application used the same business model by offering a free game for trading-in of whatsapp chat messages (link) then google removed it from play store.

    Somehow people believe that the information stored at google is safe and protected and any other owner - such as the game above - violates privacy. As soon as the information is shared with clouds in plain text form then it becomes for public consumption.

    A good resource for privacy concerns around goodle is in wikipedia - link.
    03-15-14 09:49 AM
  16. pantlesspenguin's Avatar
    OP. I just got a Z30. There are plenty of apps I looked at that have advertisement in them and in app purchases. I guess they have caught up in that respect.
    Big upgrade!! Enjoy, Buzzie!!
    kbz1960 and reeneebob like this.
    03-15-14 10:05 AM
  17. kbz1960's Avatar
    Big upgrade!! Enjoy, Buzzie!!
    So far I am, other than having to change carriers and having a more expensive plan. Thanks
    pantlesspenguin likes this.
    03-15-14 10:07 AM
  18. pantlesspenguin's Avatar
    If only those victim teenagers were of the same opinion ... then google wouldn't have to fire its own employees for spying on private information (link).

    An interesting observation is that google assumes they have exclusive rights for personal data.
    When an android application used the same business model by offering a free game for trading-in of whatsapp chat messages (link) then google removed it from play store.

    Somehow people believe that the information stored at google is safe and protected and any other owner - such as the game above - violates privacy. As soon as the information is shared with clouds in plain text form then it becomes for public consumption.

    A good resource for privacy concerns around goodle is in wikipedia - link.
    Breaches can happen anywhere and at least Google was quick to respond. Besides, that link is nearly 4 years old. I get more concerned with handing my credit card over to servers at restaurants. I know it's somewhat irrational, but it still makes me nervous. There was an incident at a Burger King near work where an employee was stealing credit card numbers. Heck, one time a coworker stole a credit card from one of her wealthy friends. Stuff like that can happen anywhere.
    kbz1960, pankaler, CHIP72 and 3 others like this.
    03-15-14 10:46 AM
  19. reeneebob's Avatar
    Like I said, I'm not going to live in a constant state of paranoia.

    If someone REALLY wants to get my personal information, they'll get it. I don't sit here thinking "oh I better use a BB because I can be anonymous". No. You can't. Just live life. If you aren't planning a terrorist attack, aren't a nut job threatening to over throw the government, why should you live in fear all the time? It's simply not worth it.

    If someone wants access to the grumpy cat meme emails and invites to the Coach Factory Outlet sales I get, have at it. My HTC One for work is locked down by IT policy and my iPhone has texts where I call my hubby a jackass in a joking way. Have at it, homeland security.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
    03-15-14 12:02 PM
  20. app_Developer's Avatar
    Breaches can happen anywhere and at least Google was quick to respond. Besides, that link is nearly 4 years old. I get more concerned with handing my credit card over to servers at restaurants. I know it's somewhat irrational, but it still makes me nervous. There was an incident at a Burger King near work where an employee was stealing credit card numbers. Heck, one time a coworker stole a credit card from one of her wealthy friends. Stuff like that can happen anywhere.
    Actually, that happens very, very often. It's just not news-worthy any more so we don't hear about it when it happens every single day.

    In other countries they solve this by taking the card processor to the table, which makes way more sense. But the way the transactions work in the US, and because the vast majority of the liability sits with the customer's bank, there was no incentive for the restaurants or their banks to buy new terminals.

    Hopefully this changes by next year with chip+PIN.

    The other question for those who avoid Google: do you also pay cash for everything? If you use a credit or debit card you leave a lot of data about yourself out there with multiple companies, most of which you haven't even heard of!

    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    Last edited by app_Developer; 03-15-14 at 01:28 PM.
    mornhavon and pantlesspenguin like this.
    03-15-14 01:05 PM
  21. BobWalker's Avatar
    Sorry, but I find Google Now utterly dumb. If you need Google to keep tabs on you like that and tell you what interests you, and you're willing to live as a tagged duck for all that useless information, well, more power to you. But it's not for me.
    03-15-14 03:15 PM
  22. BobWalker's Avatar
    Oh, I'm also not arrogant enough to think I'm so important that anyone at Googles HO cares where I am at any given time.

    I keep my nose clean and live by the law. I don't live in fear or paranoia that some corporation gives a rats behind about where I am. I just read this paranoia and think "I'm so glad I don't live in such a perpetual state of fear".
    It's not about you. Just because you're unimportant doesn't make everybody so.

    Information is power. When Google knows everything about everyone, can turn on your microphones, cameras, has all your documents, emails and pictures, well, guess what? They own you! Ever want to run for office? Better clear it with Google first. And you'd better hope nobody at Google ever comes to dislike you because they own you and can mess your life up in ways you can't imagine with all that data.

    Why does nobody seem to get this? It's not about you, peon. It's about freedom. If you're willing to live as a tracked beast, ever subservient to Google because you're too lazy to check your favorite band's website every few months, "Bow down before the one you serve. You're gonna get what you deserve."
    Last edited by BobWalker; 03-15-14 at 03:28 PM. Reason: accidentally submitted
    03-15-14 03:21 PM
  23. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    It's not about you. Just because you're unimportant doesn't make everybody so.

    Information is power. When Google knows everything about everyone, can turn on your microphones, cameras, has all your documents, emails and pictures, well, guess what? They own you! Ever want to run for office? Better clear it with Google first. And you'd better hope nobody at Google ever comes to dislike you because they own you and can mess your life up in ways you can't imagine with all that data.

    Why does nobody seem to get this? It's not about you, peon. It's about freedom. If you're willing to live as a tracked beast, ever subservient to Google because you're too lazy to check your favorite band's website every few months, "Bow down before the one you serve. You're gonna get what you deserve."
    What do you feel about BBRY gathering info?
    reeneebob and mornhavon like this.
    03-15-14 03:35 PM
  24. reeneebob's Avatar
    It's not about you. Just because you're unimportant doesn't make everybody so.

    Information is power. When Google knows everything about everyone, can turn on your microphones, cameras, has all your documents, emails and pictures, well, guess what? They own you! Ever want to run for office? Better clear it with Google first. And you'd better hope nobody at Google ever comes to dislike you because they own you and can mess your life up in ways you can't imagine with all that data.

    Why does nobody seem to get this? It's not about you, peon. It's about freedom. If you're willing to live as a tracked beast, ever subservient to Google because you're too lazy to check your favorite band's website every few months, "Bow down before the one you serve. You're gonna get what you deserve."
    Peon?

    Wow, you are truly charming. You aren't Braveheart for crying out loud. If you think getting rid of Google will save FREEEEEEDOM, you got another thing coming.

    If the government wants you, they'll get you. Don't do anything to make them want you, I fail to see what the problem is.

    Lock down all privacy, sure. Here's hoping you never go missing and they could have used your cell ping to find you. A certain lack of privacy is sometimes a good thing.

    And anyone who thinks they had privacy up until evil Google came along is living a pipe dream.

    And too lazy to check a bands website? Too busy. What if I don't check it and they announce a presale for the next morning? A limited block of tickets even?

    Boy I'd be glad I got that notification.

    Good lord, it's not like Google has a daily draw to ruin someone's life that day. The tinfoil hats too tight.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
    pantlesspenguin and bp3dots like this.
    03-15-14 03:43 PM
  25. RayGTX's Avatar
    Yes but at what cost? All those things that you praised are now sold to the highest bidder and all your information is out there. Google isn't making the experience for end users because the end user is the byproduct. Google does the for the affiliates so they can better understand how to entice you to spend money.

    Posted via CB10
    03-15-14 03:50 PM
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